Grading question??

bearcave · April 29, 2004 8:13AM

How do you tell the difference between a PCGS 69 and 70??

I have sent Proof coins in that I thought were perfect, no marks, great eye appeal, heavy frost, fields clean and end up with a PR69 DCAM.

Why not PR70?

Now, every coin I have sent that has done this, there is huge price jump from a 69 to a 70.

Is that what makes a 69?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Goldfinger · April 29, 2004 8:14AM

I look at the number on the tag, and if it says 69, it's a 69. Other than that, beats me!

kieferscoins · April 29, 2004 8:14AM

PCGS uses a 5x loupe on potential 70 coins.

Cameron Kiefer

bearcave · April 29, 2004 8:22AM

<< PCGS uses a 5x loupe on potential 70 coins.

Cameron Kiefer >>

Problem with that is I have 14X Loupe and I still don't see it!

I guess I knew the answer before I asked.

Grading is subjective isn't it?

relayer · April 29, 2004 8:31AM

It depends on the location.

If I have a 70 here that I send to PCGS it becomes a 69 there.

Maybe it's the post office's fault

GoldCoinLover · April 29, 2004 8:34AM

<< 

<< PCGS uses a 5x loupe on potential 70 coins.

Cameron Kiefer >>

Problem with that is I have 14X Loupe and I still don't see it!

I guess I knew the answer before I asked.

Grading is subjective isn't it?

>>

I can top that, I have a MS-69 1/10 oz. PCGS american eagle. And I looked under it with my 30x microscope. There's not one hairline, mark, ding, or scratch. And it's not MS-70. Personally I think PCGS "downgrades" it's coins.

Russ · April 29, 2004 8:38AM

<< How do you tell the difference between a PCGS 69 and 70?? >>

Check the quota sheet.

Russ, NCNE

bearcave · April 29, 2004 8:39AM

relayer, you may be on to something! I could believe it's the post office.

airplanenut · April 29, 2004 8:42AM

<< I can top that, I have a MS-69 1/10 oz. PCGS american eagle. And I looked under it with my 30x microscope. There's not one hairline, mark, ding, or scratch. And it's not MS-70. Personally I think PCGS "downgrades" it's coins. >>

They may downgrade coins, but 30X is too much... you don't see enough of the coin at once and can miss something.

bearcave · April 29, 2004 8:47AM

<< 

<< How do you tell the difference between a PCGS 69 and 70?? >>

Check the quota sheet.

Russ, NCNE >>

AH, now we are coming back to what I thought in my first post. Don't want to flood the market with to many 70's, that would not be good. Do they randomly give them out or just to the people that send a submission every day?

Maybe they have a number that they pull in the beginning of the day and say "Number 80 coin graded today gets a 70!"

Edit to add: I am not intending to pick on PCGS as NGC seems to be the same way. I just think it's funny how this all works out. I could probably resubmit some of them and depending on the day, mood etc. could get the 70 on some of the coins.

Myqqy · April 29, 2004 9:00AM

I could probably resubmit some of them and depending on the day, mood etc. could get the 70 on some of the coins.

I bet you couldn't!

The 69-70 game is a murky, mysterious thing....

dollardude · April 29, 2004 9:00AM

I have heard folks here say that some MS/PR69s look like 70s, and visa-versa. A lot of this is subjective. Here are the mint state (similar definitions are not llisted for proofs) definitions from PCGS Lingo:

MS-69
This is for "Mint State" (the grade) and "69" (the numerical designation of that grade). Virtually perfect in all departments, including wondrous surfaces, a 99% full strike (or better), full unbroken booming luster and show-stopping eye appeal. You may have to study this coin with a 5X glass to find the reason why it didn’t grade MS70.
See Also -- Mint State

MS-70
This is for "Mint State" (the grade) and "70" (the numerical designation of that grade). A perfect coin! Even with 5X magnification there are no marks, hairlines or luster breaks in evidence. The luster is vibrant, the strike is razor-sharp, and the eye appeal is the ultimate. Note: Minor die polish and light die breaks are not considered to be defects on circulation strike coins.
See Also -- Mint State

DHeath · April 29, 2004 9:10AM

The multi-million dollar question really is how the market would react if 5% of the existing 69's were graded 70. There would be some significance to the registry folks, but the modern market would likely moderate, with the price of a nice 69 coming back to earth in the absence of intense competition. I'm awful glad PCGS is using 70 again, but to me it's still like cold fusion, not repeatable in the lab.

tgilliams · April 29, 2004 9:18AM

You need 5x magnification and in many cases the difference becomes easier to see. The PR70DCAMS have a needle point strike, look at the letters-69's most times have a slight rounding on sharp edges, whereas 70's letters are clear, sharp and not any rounding. Also a true 70 the surfaces will turn pure black with the slightest movement of the coin. Also, PCGS PR70DCAM's must have snow white deeeeeeep cameo devices. easier to see on larger coins. This can only be done with a 5x or I use a 10x loupe. I'm sure other 70 owners can add a lot, too. And lastly, is the grader having a good day, if not, 69 all the way

.

bearcave · April 29, 2004 9:43AM

<< You need 5x magnification and in many cases the difference becomes easier to see. The PR70DCAMS have a needle point strike, look at the letters-69's most times have a slight rounding on sharp edges, whereas 70's letters are clear, sharp and not any rounding. Also a true 70 the surfaces will turn pure black with the slightest movement of the coin. Also, PCGS PR70DCAM's must have snow white deeeeeeep cameo devices. easier to see on larger coins. This can only be done with a 5x or I use a 10x loupe. I'm sure other 70 owners can add a lot, too. And lastly, is the grader having a good day, if not, 69 all the way

. >>

That's a good explanation. Never thought about the sharpness of the letters or numbers.

I kinda agree with your last sentence as well.

Grading question??

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