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I have a customer who is really ticked off at PCGS
MadMarty
Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
Last fall, a dealer friend of mine bought an estate of Canadian 10 cent and 5 cent coins. Last November he asked if he could send a sampling to PCGS for grading. I call customer service and ask how long world economy service is running, I was told 30-45 calendar days. To be safe I told the customer 2 months. The order was received 11/17 and the wait begins. After a couple of months I call and the order is still in grading, I explain to the customer that PCGS had two shows in Jan and it slows things up a bit. Well he decides the rest of the coins are going to NGC. Last week he askes about the order, I call and customer service says they are in sealing (now we are at 85 business days), I figure 3 or 4 more days and they should post. WRONG! Yesterday I call CS and guess what, they are still in sealing (day 91). Needless to say the customer is pissed off! By the way, the coins that went to NGC in Jan. are already back!
I realize that if I send an economy order in it is going to take a while, but when CS quotes a time frame and they blow it by over 45 days. It not only makes PCGS look bad, it makes me as a dealer look bad. This is a good friend (who is a coin dealer) and now a loyal customer to NGC.
David if you read this, you killing us out there!!!!
I realize that if I send an economy order in it is going to take a while, but when CS quotes a time frame and they blow it by over 45 days. It not only makes PCGS look bad, it makes me as a dealer look bad. This is a good friend (who is a coin dealer) and now a loyal customer to NGC.
David if you read this, you killing us out there!!!!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
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I think the coin goes through a miriad of bureaucratic process at PCGS or just plain lazy at PCGS, with the graders getting big fat paychecks.
I've had the "sealing" and subsequent verification process take up to about 2 weeks at times. I've wonndered if this londger "sealing" process is due to the verifier questioning the grade of at least one coin, which causes it to be further looked at, thus delaying the whole order.
Isn't the biggest part of the problem the success of PCGS being more in demand by collectors because their coins are worth more in pcgs holders ?
I hope all the pressure they are under right now doesnt cause them to try to get anybody they can to help with backlog.
David said they are trying to hire more qualified graders to help with the backlog and I believe him.
I understand dealers need new invemtory in a steady flow to supply to make a living & supply their customers but no one has come up with an idea that will stop PCGS from being flooded with more coins then graders because they are number 1. Do you think NGC would do any better if they were as in demand as PCGS is ?
Les
tightest grading
most consistent
best overgraded guarantee
best customer service
best message boards
best turnaround time
total number of coins slabbed
total value of coins slabbed
best handle on 'problem' coins
best eye for AT versus NT
highest value coin for the listed grade
best for "fill your favorite series here"
best for moderns
best for world coins
I agree with some of the above for PCGS
but NGC and ANACS get my vote for a few
K S
<< <i>Marty,
Isn't the biggest part of the problem the success of PCGS being more in demand by collectors because their coins are worth more in pcgs holders ?
I hope all the pressure they are under right now doesnt cause them to try to get anybody they can to help with backlog.
David said they are trying to hire more qualified graders to help with the backlog and I believe him.
I understand dealers need new invemtory in a steady flow to supply to make a living & supply their customers but no one has come up with an idea that will stop PCGS from being flooded with more coins then graders because they are number 1. Do you think NGC would do any better if they were as in demand as PCGS is ?
Les >>
This is actually a business question rather than a numismatic question. From a business standpoint NGC seems to be a better managed company than is PCGS (CU). PCGS does not seem to be able to handle the volume of business is has...and apparently has had for some time. Management changes need to be made but probably can't be made because of the ownership structure. You really have to wonder why a coin grading operation has to be located in an area with a sky-high cost of living such as is the case in Orange County, CA. I'm sure this makes it difficult to get and keep graders.
Let's drop PCGS whining and only post when you get grades!
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WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
All criteria!!!!!!!!!!!!! WallStreetMan said so!!!!!!!!!!!!! The turnaround is so long because they are the best!!!!!!!!!!
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1 Russ POTD!
My World Coin Type Set
<< <i>I'm sure most world class coin graders would jump at the chance to move to Bugtussle, TN >>
Maybe not Bugtussle but they may not mind a smaller metro community where the lower cost of living would make their current salary go as far as a 100% raise would where they are now.
Steve, most consistent grading, pcgs
best resale value, pcgs
Certainly their are high end and low end coins in everyones holders, but equal eye appeal coins of the same grade are worth more in pcgs holders. This is why the complaints on the pcgs turn around times more then any other, people know they can switch but they can't sell their inventory for as much money if they do. If my loyalty to PCGS offended anyone I'm sorry.
Les
I can think of a dozen reasons not to have high capacity magazines, but it's the reasons I haven't thought about that I need them.
<< <i>I'm sure most world class coin graders would jump at the chance to move to Bugtussle, TN. >>
In Bugtussle, Tenn. they could own top-end houses and belong to the finest private clubs. In Orange Co., CA they can probably afford a studio apt. in a second rate area.
I even asked DH on the Q&A Board to please change the estimated 65 days to 65 buiness days and never received a reply - apparently its an emotionally charged issue and my question got SCREENED OUT so he never replied. What good is a Q&A Board when legit questions/issues are not addressed? The Q&A Board is a total farce.....just some place to ask if DH likes spagetti (true question that was replied to). Totally disgusted.......
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
This is becoming like baseball cards...everyone's a dealer.
Doesn't that sound like a plan fellas'!?
Happy submitting,
Paul B. Gunsallus
Later, Paul.
K S
Admit it.
There is NO service in the world that can make coins ....BETTER. (Maybe NCS, but that's another story)
Everyone wants PCGS because the coins are held to a HIGHER standard. Not necessarily the correct standard, but higher. Usually.
This makes them like the days when we searched out old dealers who just went into bizz in their garage to sell off their stash. A large cent didn't make FINE unless touching it on the high points would draw blood.
IF....you get a coin into a PCGS slab, you know it is salable for top dollar BECAUSE it has to be NICER than the other grading companies require.
At least in my opinion.
IF grading were purely objective, the name on the plastic would not matter. PCGS was born of a PLUNGING coin market and they kept the perception of the ....PLUNGE.... to a reasonable rate by the simple process of CHANGING the accepted grading of the time.
If your coins were in "sealing" for only two weeks, then you got them quick!
One of my last economy orders was there for FIVE weeks (I called customer service for a status check once a week and for five weeks that's the answer I got.)
I finally dropped HRH a PM and the coins magically got through "sealing".
This may be true for the US market (I have no idea), but these are Canadian coins that are being slabbed. In Canada, ICCS is number one, and PCGS is a close second. Some disagree with this order, but there are essentially two TPG's that are trusted. NGC is not one of them.
My World Coin Type Set
And in that regard, the actual fact is I don't regard NGC as the #1 grading service.
Jennie Lee........ Oh Jennie Lee.......
Ba ba ba bop bop bop, Ba ba ba Bop Bop Bop, Ba ba ba ba ba Bop!
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"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>Now Madmarty has customers???
This is becoming like baseball cards...everyone's a dealer. >>
Hey! Marty is greatly respected in these parts(Chicagoland). He is a major player here, not some pawn to be sacrificed!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Now Madmarty has customers??? >>
Yes Jim, when another dealer gives me coins to submit for him, he is my customer. I am responsible for his coins until he gets them back from me! Ken sent me a coin to submit with one of my orders, guess what, he is a customer also!
<< <i>And in that regard, the actual fact is I don't regard NGC as the #1 grading service. >>
Neither does the marketplace, which is where it really matters. If NGC is grading more coins that PCGS, (I doubt it), that still would not make them #1 in the opinion of most. The critical criteria is what the coins bring in actual sales. In that regard, NGC is the runner-up.
Russ, NCNE
I can think of a dozen reasons not to have high capacity magazines, but it's the reasons I haven't thought about that I need them.
enable PCGS to focus more on the grading of coins and hopefully reduce turnaround
times.
2) Anyone who claims that PCGS is better than NGC or vice versa in a blanket statement
does not know the coin market and probably shouldn't be buying any numismatic
material. Slam me if you want, but an uninformed consumer is a consumer waiting to
get ripped off.
While there are some coin series that in the past were graded looser by one service
and tougher by another (ie., I generally prefer all but the oldest copper and all nickels
in PCGS slabs), coins get graded daily and grading standards are very fluid (ie., compare
RB Large Cents of 12 years ago with current ones). And since people grade coins,
mistakes are made.
3) I sincerely hope that PCGS improves their turnaround times. A major collection
which is being auctioned was recently sent to NGC, and perhaps the slower turnaround
times at PCGS had something to do with it.
As far as I am concerned, the more competitive PCGS and NGC are in the marketplace
and with one another, the better it is for all of us.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
IMO, one reason NGC coins trade at a substantial discount to PCGS is because of the many years in the 90's when they were way to lenient on almost everything, as well as their current relaxed standards on most modern issues (so I hear). I believe if NGC sticks to their current standards, at least as far as Morgan dollars are concerned, they will one day trade at par with PCGS, regardless of politics, registries, hype, etc.
dragon
Anyone?
Ferris?
Anyone?
Or is it time for ALL of us to hum a ditty now?
its that simple, everyone whines ive been waiting blah blah blah, im tired of hearing it. Posted times that are overun does suck, but its a fact of life, you wanna make sure you dont have ta wait, anti up the 100 for walk thru
Ive done it more than once. Hence no problem, no complaint...you wanna play with fire (hence ya know times are overun) then expect to jump when ya touch the stove thats glowing.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>2) Anyone who claims that PCGS is better than NGC or vice versa in a blanket statement does not know the coin market and probably shouldn't be buying any numismatic material. >>
Yup. You might add they have been collecting less than 2 years, collect moderns and don't know what they are talking about.
<< <i>Yup. You might add they have been collecting less than 2 years, collect moderns and don't know what they are talking about. >>
Be sure and check this guy's auctions regularly to see who really doesn't know what they're talking about.
Russ, NCNE