You thoughtlessly destroyed an ORIGINAL bag toned Morgan rattler, you murdered it by turning it into just another common boring blast white dipped out dump on sleazeBay junk. Coinkiller!
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Wow, I am in shock and awe as to the responses this thread has gotten.
I'm sure David's peeing in his pants from all his laughter about this thread. If you really can't see the underlying message being sent by PCGS then you just don't get it.
It is pure EGO. I'm sure somewhere, deep in the bowels of PCGS a conversation much like this occurred. (I have no actual knowledge of any conversation and this is presented for purely entertainment reasons )
Mr. A: "Hmmmm...I wonder what we can get people to pay for quicker service now that we've managed to slow down even the walk-through service?"
Mr. B: "Yeah, but the walkthrough same day service should be done in 1 day, how much faster can someone need a coin graded?"
Mr. C: "I don't know, I suppose if we slow it down enough, people would be willing to pay more to get the coin back in our original promised and guaranteed turn around times."
In unision A,B & C: "Yeah, that's the ticket, we'll slow down service and then create even a higher level of service -- and we'll market to the really astute (hehehehe) collector and the crack out artist! It's genius."
Mr. A: "And since we are the BEST grading service, people will just line up and fork over whatever we say!"
The line apparently starts at the PCGS Message Forums.
"$hit" used 2 times....... (Classiccoin...How did you get that word to post?) "Dam" used 25 times..... "Crap" Used 47 times.... "Whine" Used 4583 times.....
<< <i>Stupid question, if the previous $100 per coin was to get them graded asap then what do you get for the $100 level now? >>
Exactly. I think this is the point of this entire thread but it seems to have been missed.
I think for $100 you get shoved to the rear by the $200 submitters. I guess we'll have to see how this all plays out and get feedback from someone who is at the show.
<< <i>I think for $100 you get shoved to the rear by the $200 submitters. >>
And, for $16 you get shoved to the rear of the $30 submitters, who get shoved to the rear of the $50 submitters, who get shoved to the rear of the $100 submitters.
Why pull all this BS? They should just raise prices on each tier, get it over with, & do what they're supposed to do which is get it done within the promised time.
It will end when the market decides it's time. It's all about demand for the product.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, I think part of the problem is that they are catering to the big spenders. The collectors who have to participate in the more affordable services will be the ones that have to eat the slow turnover times. It's about fairness to the little guy.
I think it is just because of the super-hot economy that Bush's tax cuts have generated. $200 seems cheap for most people these days. Look at all the money they've been makin' in their stocks and 401Ks.
BTW - I have a hard time believing that any lawyer you go to is going to lower their price dramatically because you don't think they are charging a fair price, or say they will handle your case for 1/10 their fee, but they may be a bit slower getting some documents created, etc. Call up an attorney that charges $200 an hour and ask if they would do $25 an hour, and see how far you will get.
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
$200 seems like a lot unless you are talking about a $10,000 coin. The buyer will pay it if the grade is granted, it will be part of the sales price right?
For a $500 coin, no reason to pay that kind of money.
I think it is just a business move for higher end coins submitted by higher end dealers. There must be a demand. Mr. Hall always talks about what his clients are asking for or not.
Let it go, life goes on. Let not your anger cloud your judgement.
that half-dollar is no longer a PR65, why not send it back to PCGS and collect money for the difference?
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
Just remember that the US Dollar is now 28% below the value of the Euro. The US Dollar was at one time at a 10% premium to the Euro. So a 38% price drop.
Lets face it folks, thus and the Canadian, Australian and British Pound are surging in value against the US Dollar. So $200 is a bargain to the foreign collectors who crave US coins.
We are slowly being priced out of what we used to be kings in buying power. If you don't already own the coins you want you are in for a rude awakening.
PCGS is obviously catering to the crushing demand for grading services at coin shows and also trying to make more profits to help the stamp grading service really get off the ground as it is beginning to show some promise.
But the bottom line is it seems that inflation is starting to kick into high gear in selected areas particularly hard assets which had been depressed so long.
<< <i>Call up an attorney that charges $200 an hour and ask if they would do $25 an hour, and see how far you will get. >>
Not quite the same. If Johnny C had told OJ that his normal rate is $400 an hour, but since your a*s is in a sling and your a rich football player and movie star, I'm going to charge you $2000 an hour, because without me some guy named Bubba is going to make you his best friend, you would be calling for the scumbag, greedy, scum sucking lawyer's head.
Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
I don't think PCGS is saying that if you need your coin back quicker more then the guy next to you, we are going to charge you more for it. It is up to each person to decide how quick they need their coin.
Is it legal for lawyers to charge different prices for different services? I sure as H*LL think so. There is no way you can say PCGS is intentially ripping of the rich people just because they can. They are providing a service for a fee - whoever wants to pay the fee can.
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
One more quick example Fratt. If you want me to give you a basic design for a website, and someone else wants me to design on for them as well, but you say anytime in the next month is OK, I might charge you say $100. If the other person says it HAS to be done TONIGHT or else, I may very well ask $1000. Maybe I had other plans tonight or whatever. This is just a silly example, but it shows how obvious this is. It has nothing to do with someone being rich or not.
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
don't any of you read the q&a forum, this is just the first step in the new "the little guy comes first" agenda....
don't want to wait 78 days for your economy submission - no problem - just fly to florida, hand over the coin and 2 c notes and you'll have your opinion within an hour or the pizza's free.
What it means is if you walked up to the booth, hand them your $200 per coin(s) grading fees, twidle your thumbs a bit, tap your feet on the floor a sec, yawn once or twice along with a good streeetch then POP out come your coins,like em grades or no like em grade presto, there they are !!
Would benefit the fast floor shakers and movers for sure.
Like, "buy high at current grade" (where the next up makes a worthy motive for a rip) round em up pay the PCGS hostage fee, take your made wins (assuming you are a "floor skaker"), hit the floor selling the next grade or 2 up coins or re-designations,etc then hit the fast blowout side to any # of ready buyers at the heavily discounted now new slab labels' grade,much higher grades' price and roll out like a fat cat....
would have to be a heck of a coin to warrant a $200 grading fee. would $5,000 be enough? $10K?
For $200 grading of my icon coin, for example, I'd want:
1. a special holder, not the same holder you get for economy submission. the holder would be nice, maybe like their old "Regency" holder.
2. on the holder, not just one grade, but a breakdown with "expert" evaluation of strike, luster, marks, surface preservation, and a composite grade that includes overall eye appeal.
3. a big color photo of the coin like what en gee cee does with their photoproof thing, so I can frame it and look at it at home while the coin is away in the safety box.
4. coffee and a donut while I'm waiting for this "super express" service.
I guess the upgrades they get for the toners that are bumped up for color and don't meet the technical grade..... they are going to need to charge 21x sheet rather than 20x. Poor guys. Oh, and gals.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
I don't think PCGS is saying that if you need your coin back quicker more then the guy next to you, we are going to charge you more for it. It is up to each person to decide how quick they need their coin.
Is it legal for lawyers to charge different prices for different services? I sure as H*LL think so. There is no way you can say PCGS is intentially ripping of the rich people just because they can. They are providing a service for a fee - whoever wants to pay the fee can.
JJacks >>
Maybe pcgs should hold a pre-show grading auction. If they figure they can grade 200 coins per day at the show then the top 200 bids get their coins graded that day. Like a eBay Dutch auction. 200 available.
JJACKS -- I understood your example and I agree with it. I was just a little miffed with the attorney example, but the website example you provided is much better. Attorney's never do anything quickly!
If PCGS has the market for a $200 grading tier, then they will do it. But the point I want to make is that PCGS can't provide the services they already guaranty. If PCGS was meeting its own guaranteed turnaround times and they wanted to charge $200 for superfast lightning like service, so be it. If there's someone out there to pay it, God bless them.
But that's not the case, turnaround times are crawling -- please read others posts -- if this slowing is intentional and then a new tier level is added which forces some to pay the difference just to get their coin back in time for an auction or show, that appears to me to be price gouging to me. Even if it isn't done intentionally, but no steps are taken to cure the first problem, then its malfeasance.
<< <i> Maybe pcgs should hold a pre-show grading auction. If they figure they can grade 200 coins per day at the show then the top 200 bids get their coins graded that day. Like a eBay Dutch auction. 200 available. >>
Yes, but by the time the auction is over, they will only be able to grade 175 coins.
Only problem is it's likely to set back the regular $100 walk thru service even more.......possibly to the point that if the dealers can't get the coins back in time to market them "at" a show.......the "new" $200 service may become the de-facto only game in town!
......looks like a neat way to raise the price without really looking like it.
.....BTW, don't know if they'll be serving steak & wine with that new service, but KY might help ease the pain!
<< <i>$100 service has been taking almost a full day to a day and a half at shows. On a $25-50k coin, what's another $100 to get it back in an hour instead? Seems like a very smart price model to me. Don't like it? Then don't pay it...... >>
The Ex-"Crown Jewel" of my collection! 1915 PF68 (NGC) Barber Half "Eliasberg".
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
What I want to know is how many coins actually got submitted for grading at the $200.00 level That is a good question. I would also like to know to what extent, if any, it effected the turn around of the $100 show grades.
Comments
Coinkiller!
<< <i>yes but your research capabilities are what is needed. >>
Okay, that was just the right amount of butt kissing.
Russ, NCNE
I'm sure David's peeing in his pants from all his laughter about this thread. If you really can't see the underlying message being sent by PCGS then you just don't get it.
It is pure EGO. I'm sure somewhere, deep in the bowels of PCGS a conversation much like this occurred. (I have no actual knowledge of any conversation and this is presented for purely entertainment reasons
Mr. A: "Hmmmm...I wonder what we can get people to pay for quicker service now that we've managed to slow down even the walk-through service?"
Mr. B: "Yeah, but the walkthrough same day service should be done in 1 day, how much faster can someone need a coin graded?"
Mr. C: "I don't know, I suppose if we slow it down enough, people would be willing to pay more to get the coin back in our original promised and guaranteed turn around times."
In unision A,B & C: "Yeah, that's the ticket, we'll slow down service and then create even a higher level of service -- and we'll market to the really astute (hehehehe) collector and the crack out artist! It's genius."
Mr. A: "And since we are the BEST grading service, people will just line up and fork over whatever we say!"
The line apparently starts at the PCGS Message Forums.
Michael
"$hit" used 2 times....... (Classiccoin...How did you get that word to post?)
"Dam" used 25 times.....
"Crap" Used 47 times....
"Whine" Used 4583 times.....
<< <i>If you really can't see the underlying message being sent by PCGS then you just don't get it.
It is pure EGO. >>
What's the underlying message of NGC discounting their product by more than 50% at the same time?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Stupid question, if the previous $100 per coin was to get them graded asap then what do you get for the $100 level now? >>
Exactly. I think this is the point of this entire thread but it seems to have been missed.
I think for $100 you get shoved to the rear by the $200 submitters. I guess we'll have to see how this all plays out and get feedback
from someone who is at the show.
<< <i>I think for $100 you get shoved to the rear by the $200 submitters. >>
And, for $16 you get shoved to the rear of the $30 submitters, who get shoved to the rear of the $50 submitters, who get shoved to the rear of the $100 submitters.
All of whom voluntarily choose which tier to use.
Russ, NCNE
True, but where does it end???
<< <i>True, but where does it end??? >>
It will end when the market decides it's time. It's all about demand for the product.
Russ, NCNE
When will $16 do what it used to do?
When will $30 do what it used to do?
When will $50 do what it used to do?
When will $100 do what it used to do?
Why pull all this BS? They should just raise prices on each tier, get it over with, & do what they're supposed to do which is
get it done within the promised time.
<< <i>
<< <i>True, but where does it end??? >>
It will end when the market decides it's time. It's all about demand for the product.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, I think part of the problem is that they are catering to the big spenders. The collectors who have to participate in the
more affordable services will be the ones that have to eat the slow turnover times. It's about fairness to the little guy.
I think it is just because of the super-hot economy that Bush's tax cuts have generated.
BTW - I have a hard time believing that any lawyer you go to is going to lower their price dramatically because you don't think they are charging a fair price, or say they will handle your case for 1/10 their fee, but they may be a bit slower getting some documents created, etc. Call up an attorney that charges $200 an hour and ask if they would do $25 an hour, and see how far you will get.
JJacks
For a $500 coin, no reason to pay that kind of money.
I think it is just a business move for higher end coins submitted by higher end dealers. There must be a demand. Mr. Hall always talks about what his clients are asking for or not.
Let it go, life goes on. Let not your anger cloud your judgement.
Tbig
that half-dollar is no longer a PR65, why not send it back to PCGS and collect money for the difference?
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
<< <i>
<< <i>yes but your research capabilities are what is needed. >>
Okay, that was just the right amount of butt kissing.
Russ, NCNE >>
Ahhh memories
Lets face it folks, thus and the Canadian, Australian and British Pound are surging in value against the US Dollar. So $200 is a bargain to the foreign collectors who crave US coins.
We are slowly being priced out of what we used to be kings in buying power. If you don't already own the coins you want you are in for a rude awakening.
PCGS is obviously catering to the crushing demand for grading services at coin shows and also trying to make more profits to help the stamp grading service really get off the ground as it is beginning to show some promise.
But the bottom line is it seems that inflation is starting to kick into high gear in selected areas particularly hard assets which had been depressed so long.
<< <i>Call up an attorney that charges $200 an hour and ask if they would do $25 an hour, and see how far you will get. >>
Not quite the same. If Johnny C had told OJ that his normal rate is $400 an hour, but since your a*s is in a sling and your a rich football player and movie star, I'm going to charge you $2000 an hour, because without me some guy named Bubba is going to make you his best friend, you would be calling for the scumbag, greedy, scum sucking lawyer's head.
Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.
Michael
Fratt,
I don't think PCGS is saying that if you need your coin back quicker more then the guy next to you, we are going to charge you more for it. It is up to each person to decide how quick they need their coin.
Is it legal for lawyers to charge different prices for different services? I sure as H*LL think so. There is no way you can say PCGS is intentially ripping of the rich people just because they can. They are providing a service for a fee - whoever wants to pay the fee can.
JJacks
One more quick example Fratt. If you want me to give you a basic design for a website, and someone else wants me to design on for them as well, but you say anytime in the next month is OK, I might charge you say $100. If the other person says it HAS to be done TONIGHT or else, I may very well ask $1000. Maybe I had other plans tonight or whatever. This is just a silly example, but it shows how obvious this is. It has nothing to do with someone being rich or not.
JJacks
don't any of you read the q&a forum, this is just the first step in the new "the little guy comes first" agenda....
don't want to wait 78 days for your economy submission - no problem - just fly to florida, hand over the coin and 2 c notes and you'll have your opinion within an hour or the pizza's free.
can't wait to see what's next!
POP out come your coins,like em grades or no like em grade presto, there they are !!
Would benefit the fast floor shakers and movers for sure.
Like, "buy high at current grade" (where the next up makes a worthy motive for a rip) round em up pay the PCGS hostage fee, take your made wins (assuming you are a "floor skaker"), hit the floor selling the next grade or 2 up coins or re-designations,etc then hit the fast blowout side to any # of ready buyers at the heavily discounted now new slab labels' grade,much higher grades' price and roll out like a fat cat....
Money for nuttin, chicks for free.....
For $200 grading of my icon coin, for example, I'd want:
1. a special holder, not the same holder you get for economy submission. the holder would be nice, maybe like their old "Regency" holder.
2. on the holder, not just one grade, but a breakdown with "expert" evaluation of strike, luster, marks, surface preservation, and a composite grade that includes overall eye appeal.
3. a big color photo of the coin like what en gee cee does with their photoproof thing, so I can frame it and look at it at home while the coin is away in the safety box.
4. coffee and a donut while I'm waiting for this "super express" service.
5. to be called "sir" a lot.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Fratt,
I don't think PCGS is saying that if you need your coin back quicker more then the guy next to you, we are going to charge you more for it. It is up to each person to decide how quick they need their coin.
Is it legal for lawyers to charge different prices for different services? I sure as H*LL think so. There is no way you can say PCGS is intentially ripping of the rich people just because they can. They are providing a service for a fee - whoever wants to pay the fee can.
JJacks >>
Maybe pcgs should hold a pre-show grading auction. If they figure they can grade 200 coins per day at the show then the top 200 bids get their coins graded that day.
Like a eBay Dutch auction. 200 available.
If PCGS has the market for a $200 grading tier, then they will do it. But the point I want to make is that PCGS can't provide the services they already guaranty. If PCGS was meeting its own guaranteed turnaround times and they wanted to charge $200 for superfast lightning like service, so be it. If there's someone out there to pay it, God bless them.
But that's not the case, turnaround times are crawling -- please read others posts -- if this slowing is intentional and then a new tier level is added which forces some to pay the difference just to get their coin back in time for an auction or show, that appears to me to be price gouging to me. Even if it isn't done intentionally, but no steps are taken to cure the first problem, then its malfeasance.
Michael
1. I will continue to submitt using economy.
2. The fact that I will wait 6 weeks for my coins will never change.
, so everything is exactly the same as it was before the thread.
(at least for me,
<< <i>
Maybe pcgs should hold a pre-show grading auction. If they figure they can grade 200 coins per day at the show then the top 200 bids get their coins graded that day.
Like a eBay Dutch auction. 200 available. >>
Yes, but by the time the auction is over, they will only be able to grade 175 coins.
09/07/2006
......looks like a neat way to raise the price without really looking like it.
.....BTW, don't know if they'll be serving steak & wine with that new service, but KY might help ease the pain!
<< <i>$100 service has been taking almost a full day to a day and a half at shows. On a $25-50k coin, what's another $100 to get it back in an hour instead? Seems like a very smart price model to me. Don't like it? Then don't pay it...... >>
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!