1878 Morgan 7/8-TF Weak vs Strong Question

golfpkg · January 6, 2004 4:38AM

A couple of new (to me) PCGS designations for the 1878 7/8-TF Morgan Dollar are Weak and Strong. Multiple reference books seem to agree, three or less additional tail-feather ends appearing beyond the seven (main) tail-feather ends are “Weak”, while four or more are “Strong”.

There is a wide range of sizes possible for tail-feather ends that can appear just beyond the ends of the main group of seven-feathers. We see everything from almost complete, rounded ends, to tiny remnants. Some are hardly more than a speck of raised metal representing only a small fraction of a “Ghost” tail-feather end.

I would like to know if size matters when counting the remnants of the original, underlying, tail-feather ends. And if size is not specified for the designation I.e. it is subjective, is there a rule of thumb for what might or might not qualify as a tail-feather end?

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated,

Steve
golfpkg

BillJones · January 6, 2004 6:31AM

I think that it is the number of extra feathers that show and how obvious they are. If you really need a glass to see them, it’s one of the weak varieties. If you can easily see several extra feathers with a 3X it’s a strong variety.

The feather tips are really only part of what is doubled in these coins. I’ve had some “weak” pieces that had doubled claws, doubled legs and a lot of neat stuff. BUT the feathers are what counts. The other doubling is great for those who appreciate it.

golfpkg · January 6, 2004 8:48AM

Thanks Bill, I have an 1878 7/8 TF that has so much going on ... double legs, long nock, doubling on the arrowheads, double die obverse mostly in LIBERTY, missing lower Nostril, space between hair and forehead, die chips from the lips and chin, over polished where the eagle's right wing meets the body, proofish like on the obverse and proof like on the reverse.

This weak/strong thing still has me Baffled! I think it's because when an 8 TF hub got reworked to be a 7 TF hub the intention was that no feathers would show from the 8 TF design. So, any that do show and even remnants that show are errors. It would be good to look at a dozen each, weak and strong, in PCGS holders.

Thanks again,

Steve

Dog97 · January 6, 2004 9:08AM

Many models have bits & pieces of TF but they either show 5-7 TF ends or they don't.

Bill Jones, it's interesting to note that of all the 7/8 models only 4 are on the Top 100 vam list and of those only 1 is because of tailfeathers.
Vam 32. 2nd rarest 7/8, only shows 3TF but is a high $$ coin.
Vam 44. Tripled rev-"The Big One", King of VAMs
Vam 45. Third rarest 7/8, doubled legs.
And VAM 41, which shows 7 extra TF.

golfpkg · January 6, 2004 9:30AM

My problem may be that I was going along secure in the knowledge that if you had 7-full tail feathers with any bits or ends from an 8 TF design you had a 7/8 TF! I took a nap and when I woke up there were Weak and Strong 7/8 TF designations. And the definitions relate only to numbers … No mention of size.

Arrrrrggggg!

Dog97 · January 6, 2004 9:43AM

hahahha golfpkg I hear ya. The same thing can be said for FBL Franklin ½'s and FM Mercs, FS Nickels and now Full Torch Rosevelt dimes.
It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Gilbert · January 7, 2004 12:29AM

Golfpkg,

There is a 7/8tf attribution guide that lists all the known "doubled tailfeather varieties," with pics and descriptions. FYI, all 7/8 varieties will have a long nock, AND, there are a couple 7/8tf varieties that have zero extra feathers showing.

It is the fact that the B1 hub (7tf, PAF w/long nock) was impressed over the A hub (8tf); some have extra feathers and some have extensive doubling, but all have the long nock.

Anyway, the book is:

The 1878 Morgan Dollar 7/8TF Attribution Guide, by Jeff Oxman and Les Hartnett. It also includes the 7TF B1 varieties.

1878 Morgan 7/8-TF Weak vs Strong Question

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