Contursi 1794 Dollar

Gemini · December 22, 2003 7:59PM

Did anyone get to see this amazing coin at the Long Beach Expo?
What did you think of it?
What does it grade?

jbsteven · December 22, 2003 9:28PM

saw it and was very cool. grade? What did the insert say?

ANACONDA · December 22, 2003 10:16PM

66 - maybe specimen 66 but i don't remember

tradedollarnut · December 22, 2003 10:17PM

It's the Amon Carter specimen:

jbsteven · December 22, 2003 11:10PM

TDN

so this coin would not be a insert coin?

EVillageProwler · December 23, 2003 12:17AM

I saw the coin at LB. Since I was with Cardinal at the time, Contoursi allowed me to hold the coin and view it up close and personal. From a manufacturing engineering perspective, the coin was a POS. But, numismatically, the coin was really nice. Fresh, lustrous surfaces. Nicely contoured devices.

The coin clearly was atypical of the coinage of its generation.

EVP

boiler78 · December 23, 2003 12:23AM

EVP- I thought the specimen status was questionable at best. I would think a presentation piece would not have adjustment marks but I agree it is unlike any other 1794 dollar that I've seen.

tradedollarnut · December 23, 2003 12:33AM

so this coin would not be a insert coin?

Ya seen one Specimen66 1794 dollar, ya seen em all!

Garneteye · December 23, 2003 12:57AM

EVillageProwler · December 23, 2003 1:04AM

Boiler - I do not feel nearly qualified to answer your question regarding the coin's status as a SPECIMEN. For one, I have not studied this particular coin nor the date and series as a whole nearly as in-depth as I feel I should. Second, I do not wish to be at an opposing viewpoint with Cardinal regarding this coin until I've had a chance to read his analysis of the coin (which I've had since LB but still have not read). (How I feel about this coin relative to the others is analogous to how I feel about Cardinal to me regarding knowledge of this subject matter.)

EVP

SethChandler · December 23, 2003 3:40AM

One of my favorite coins of all time. I saw it at an ANA or FUN show maybe 15 yrs ago. Andy L had the coin. Andy, wasn't the coin in a large black capital plastics holder at the time?

DAM · December 23, 2003 5:10AM

<< <i>From a manufacturing engineering perspective, the coin was a POS. But, numismatically, the coin was really nice. Fresh, lustrous surfaces. Nicely contoured devices.

The coin clearly was atypical of the coinage of its generation. >>

Personally, that's what I find neat about those coins.

Wish I could have seen it.

cardinal · December 23, 2003 7:25AM

I have had the opportunity to examine the Amon Carter 1794 dollar very closely on several occasions. It is currently encapsulated by PCGS and graded as "Specimen-66, with Silver Plug," and I think it is a truly magnificent specimen.

I have examined many other specimens, ranging from low-grade damaged/repaired coins to VF's, XF's, AU's and mint state specimens, and I have done extensive research toward documenting the condition census. From all the people I have spoken to and all of the historical descriptions I have read, it seems that everyone has been in agreement that the Amon Carter 1794 dollar is a very important piece.

I have also spoken to several individuals (some more knowledgeable about early dollars than others) who disagree with PCGS's opinion that the coin is a "Specimen" striking. Generally, they view the presence of adjustment marks and the silver plug as disqualifying the coin from "specimen" status. I recently had the opportunity to meet with Mark Salzberg and discuss the Amon Carter 1794. He commented that he had personally examined and designated MANY 18th century coins as "specimens," and that he had evaluated the Amon Carter 1794 dollar SPECIFICALLY to consider whether it was or was not a specimen striking. His conclusion was that the coin was not a "specimen," and he explained to me that he just couldn't accept the idea of the early Mint using a weight adjusted planchet (or, especially a double weight adjusted planchet) for the striking of a coin intended as a specimen presentation piece.

Is seems that several members here echo Mark Salzberg's reasoning. Well, what do you think of this coin?

This 1795 Flowing Hair dollar was part of the Congressman Jimmy Hayes collection. If you look at the image carefully, you will notice light adjustment marks in Liberty's Hair, a mint-inserted silver plug at the center (most visible on the reverse), very sharp striking details, and prooflike fields. What is coin graded? It is currently encapsulated by NGC and graded as "Specimen-66, with silver plug" !!!

airplanenut · December 23, 2003 7:35AM

Thanks for the info, Cardinal!

elwood · December 23, 2003 7:36AM

I saw it at the ANA and thought it was a beautiful coin.

Which 1794 Dollar is in the Texas Collection?

tradedollarnut · December 23, 2003 7:56AM

Well..... not the Leyland Rogers coin:

Stellar Collection

oreville · December 23, 2003 8:11AM

cardinal; I got the

part!

I concur!

Maybe Mark needs to have a chat with his crew?

MrEureka · December 23, 2003 9:39AM

Andy, wasn't the coin in a large black capital plastics holder at the time?

Assuming you saw the coin before I transfered it to my keychain?

I'm pretty sure it was in a big white holder.

MrEureka · December 23, 2003 9:42AM

Which 1794 Dollar is in the Texas Collection?

I believe that's one of the Oswald coins, later to Jimmy Hayes.

cardinal · December 23, 2003 9:48AM

Which 1794 Dollar is in the Texas Collection?

I believe that's one of the Oswald coins, later to Jimmy Hayes.

Yes, I saw that 1794 dollar (and the rest of the Texas Early Dollar date set) when it was displayed at the Atlanta ANA in 2001. Definitely the Oswald-Ostheimer-Jimmy Hayes coin, currently graded by PCGS as MS-66.

elwood · December 23, 2003 10:04AM

Besides the Amon Carter SP66, I see 2 graded MS-66 by PCGS.

One is the Oswald Coin and the other?

Resub or a different 94?

elwood · December 23, 2003 10:06AM

OH, Which 1794 is considered the finest known?

Thanks!!!

MrEureka · December 23, 2003 10:09AM

From a technical standpoint, the Lelan Rogers coin is probably the best, but I prefer the Amon Carter coin for its overall look and fabric.

cardinal · December 23, 2003 10:10AM

Besides the Amon Carter SP66, I see 2 graded MS-66 by PCGS.
One is the Oswald Coin and the other?
Resub or a different 94?

All three are different specimens:

The Will Neil-Amon Carter coin -- SP-66
The Oswald-Ostheimer-Hayes coin -- MS66
The FCC Boyd-Lelan Rogers coin -- MS66

Which is best? That's already been debated several times in earlier threads!

Pistareen · December 23, 2003 10:11AM

The Carter coin is considered finest known in the unpublished Jack Collins manuscript on the subject. It's a simple wonder to study, an incredible coin no matter what the coiner was thinking when he struck it (something like capital murder, to determine a Specimen one must ascertain the state of mind and intent at the time of the event).

I'd agree with Andy that I like the Carter coin best of the nice 1794 dollars out there.

tradedollarnut · December 23, 2003 11:00AM

Rogers:

Hayes:

Honestly, I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed for eating crackers, but I'd say it's a tie between Rogers and Carter. The Carter coin requires a lot of light to look like the picture and prooflike doesn't do as much for me as satiny cartwheel....

Nic · December 23, 2003 11:54AM

Great coins. As far as federal issues go this or the chain cent are the only "one coin" collections out there. K

tradedollarnut · December 24, 2003 6:41AM

Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas!

MrEureka · December 24, 2003 7:03AM

Did somebody say "Ho, Ho, Ho"?

Just kidding, guys! Merry Christmas!

kieferscoins · December 24, 2003 7:06AM

Mr Lustig is seeing if he can get banned on Christmas eve. Very daring.

Cameron Kiefer

MrEureka · December 24, 2003 7:14AM

Mr Lustig is seeing if he can get banned on Christmas eve. Very daring.

Mr. Kiefer, I don't know what you're talking about. Please explain!

tradedollarnut · December 24, 2003 7:18AM

Contursi 1794 Dollar

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