ICG grading

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 12:27PM

Is their grading reliable....

EVillageProwler · December 19, 2003 12:28PM

I can see how this thread will end up...

Ok, I'll bite: define "reliable". I'm not asking for a dictionary definition, but wish to know what your expectations wrt being reliable in the context of this thread.

EVP

Russ · December 19, 2003 12:30PM

Depends on what series you're talking about. In moderns, they flat suck. I hear that they aren't quite as bad in other stuff.

Russ, NCNE

FatMan · December 19, 2003 12:32PM

I have some properly graded ICG slabs. I have some that are questionable

BTW
I have some properly graded PCGS slabs. I have some that are questionable
I have some properly graded NGC slabs. I have some that are questionable

The only time it matters if you choose to sell. ICG will not bring the same money as the other two in most cases.

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 12:33PM

EVP, my expectations is wheather I can depend on the grade of a coin graded by them.
I have one graded by them and was wondering just what others have found and know about their grading...nothing more. Do they grade high or do they undergrade...seems like when I see one of their coins on ebay it doesn't go for what a PCGS or an NGC goes for.

darktone · December 19, 2003 12:37PM

I think ICG coins have been picked over and many of the good coins cracked out and resubmitted to PCGS and NGC. mike

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 12:38PM

Russ, so your saying they are not the brightest graders on the block when it comes to moderns and better at the older stuff.

Russ · December 19, 2003 12:42PM

dlimb2,

My experience with them is mostly moderns and some Morgan dollars. With moderns they consistently overgrade. With the Morgans I've seen the grading has been inconsistent, but they frequently get it right.

Russ, NCNE

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 12:42PM

darktone, so I guess ebay would not be a good source from which to purchase ICG graded coins...as they do not stand up to the grade.

TWODOGS · December 19, 2003 12:44PM

I've got some Morgan and Peace Dollars in ICG-64 slabs and they are easily on par with what I've got in NGC and PCGS plastic. However, I bought them because they WERE accurately graded.

EVillageProwler · December 19, 2003 12:45PM

Dlimb:

The typical grading service goes through cycles where they alternate between very tight and very loose. Sometimes, this behavior can appear to be very frequent and depend on who, what, when and where. ICG is no different.

About ICG specifically, it is my belief that they grade looser than I would prefer for the majority of U.S. coinage series -- especially when compared to PCGS, NGC and ANACS. The lone exception could be with silver Bust coinage, where the grading difficulty of the series itself sort of makes all the services pretty bad. (For circ Bust stuff, I actually like ANACS.)

But, you need to recognize that ICG is also fairly consistent. That is, if they grade coin X an MS65 today, then chances are excellent that they will grade coin X MS65 tomorrow. Thus, you merely have to learn how to discern the FMV for the coin and pay accordingly. ANACS is very consistent too! Maybe it's a volume thing...

One of the things that I think frustrate most collectors is when they hear stories of coins getting a mixed bag of grades (or even no-grades) from the same service when resubmitted multiple times. In that case, they have no idea how to predict FMV for that coin because the value is tied into a slab with a variable grade. It's a moving target.

Eliminate the moving target, and the collectors will have an easier time buying.

EVP

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 12:46PM

Russ, what does NCNE stand for after your name?

Russ · December 19, 2003 12:51PM

<< Russ, what does NCNE stand for after your name? >>

It's a computer business thing.

Russ, NCNE

dollardude · December 19, 2003 12:51PM

I own two ICG slabbed coins: (1) one of only 5000 Goodacre presentation Sacagaweas (no grade given) that I highly treasure, and (2) an 1889-S Morgan AU53 that I would grade XF45. So, in my limited experience, they way overgrade.

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 12:54PM

EVP, Thank You, I would like to buy coins already graded...that eliminates a step for me on down the road...but at the same time I want it to be the right grade for the coin when I purchase it...I collect sets and I also collect multiples of certain coins of low mintage...so I want them to be as accurate as possible. If I find that they are not accurate, I would rather buy the coin raw...right now I have I would estimate over 100 coins I want to have graded...If I stop to have them graded then I would have to give up on purchasing other coins...because I can not afford to do both...I am so addicted.

Russ · December 19, 2003 1:01PM

dlimb2,

Do you have any shows in your area? Or shops that carry slabs? I'm still really learning most of this stuff myself, but I discovered that to in order to learn as quickly as possible, I needed to hit every show and every shop possible and look at as many graded coins as time and dealer patience allows. That, and submitting bunches. The latter, of course, has resulted in quite a few tuition payments.

Russ, NCNE

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 1:08PM

Russ, yes we have a small show here once a month...it is cheaper than the coin shops...they are way to high on graded material...I like the shows too..they are fun..and you can really see what you are getting...I wish they had more large shows around here then you would have a greater selection.

darktone · December 19, 2003 1:09PM

<< darktone, so I guess ebay would not be a good source from which to purchase ICG graded coins...as they do not stand up to the grade. >>

Each coin should be taken on an individual basis no matter where you look. mike

EVillageProwler · December 19, 2003 1:13PM

NCNE

Novell Certified Netware Engineer?

EVP

sinin1 · December 19, 2003 1:14PM

they have some very good graders that run that place

they started very well

they got a bad rap when MANY MS68+ and many PR69DCAM+ hit the market from stuff minted in the past 20 years

The blue sheet values basically say their numbers are better than ANACS -- PCGS>NGC>ICG>ANACS

for the series I looked at

buying on eBay is difficult because pictures are good at nicks but bad for eye appeal and luster which are a major part of the final score

I'm selling some ICG stuff on eBay now - bid on it

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 1:20PM

Sinin 1, you are saying they are bad at grading moderns...well then I will know to stay away form them then...what is your sellers name so I can look at what ya got.

Russ · December 19, 2003 1:21PM

<< NCNE

Novell Certified Netware Engineer?

EVP >>

Nope. That would be just "CNE".

Russ, NCNE

dlimb2 · December 19, 2003 1:27PM

Russ, I was think about taking the CNE courses...I build computers and would like to get the networking down pat...do you work for yourself or a company.

EVillageProwler · December 19, 2003 1:34PM

Novell Certified Network Engineer?

Russ · December 20, 2003 5:42AM

<< Russ, I was think about taking the CNE courses.. >>

Don't waste your time and money. Novell is dead. Their market share has been declining for years and I don't see them coming back any time soon. If you really think you need certs to succeed, and networking is the direction you'd like to take, look in to Cisco's programs.

BTW, NCNE is No Certifications No Education.

Russ, NCNE

XpipedreamR · December 20, 2003 6:59AM

I recently looked at a bunch of ICG Buffalos and Jeffersons. There were some nice coins, but most all of them were easily two points high.

291fifth · December 20, 2003 7:52AM

<< Is their grading reliable.... >>

You are asking the wrong question. The real problem with ICG is their absolutely miserable market acceptability. I recently sold some ICG modern Lincolns at a show (I had tried to trade them to a forum member dealer specialist in this type of material but was turned down flat. I had also tried to sell them on eBay but pulled them after several days of no bids even though they had a rock-bottom starting price). I finally sold them and averaged about $5 each...after having been turned down flat by at least six dealers. I was delighted to be rid of them. I had held one coin back, an ICG 1934 Lincoln in MS67RED. This coin I cracked out and sent into ANACS...it came back MS67RED which is the correct grade.

Over the past six months I have tried to cross small number of ICG MS Indians to NGC or ANACS. Some were submitted raw and some still in the slab. None crossed at the ICG assigned grade.

I have only one ICG coin left, a 1902 Braber Dime graded AU58. In my opinion the coin is no better than AU50.

ICG had real promise when they started out but seems to have really gone off the track at some point. Personally, I don't want any more of their slabs.

ICG grading

Comments

Leave a Comment