Since wondercoin guessed the amount I was thinking, Ill go with 29,900.
I dont think its going to meet the reserve. I can imagine anyone lettin it go for substantially less than what they just recently paid for it. Even if it hammered at the same price as last time, the buyer will be out substantially with all the auction fees associated with it.
Oh, and my guess is $34,500. Not because it's worth it, but because I'm guessing that the reserve will be 30K hammer and there will be no more than one bidder.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I'll guess $24,725, which is $21,500 plus juice. I really don't see any way the coin approaches its former selling price.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I see a lot brown toning forming on this puppy. When it turns brown, do you think it will still sell as a PR-70, Red Cameo?
AND GOLLLLLEEEEE! I can take up to six months to pay!
This coin could open up a whole collecting world for me ...
If I bid, please feel free to call up the guys with the white coats.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I do NOT think this coin will sell - it probably has a fairly high reserve, and unless someone with more money than sense wants to move up in registry set sweepstakes, this particular coin won't meet its owner's reserve.
When I looked at this coin at the FUN show last year when it actually sold for $39,100, I graded it maximum PR66RD DCam. THis coin has significant impairments, which may not have been observableon the coin when it was initially graded. I think the current photo successfully masks what is plainly visible on the coin when looked at in the "flesh" and in the prior image for the 2003 FUN auction.
The coin itself is worth about $5, the plastic surrounding the coin perhaps $2, the paper insert with the PCGS OPINION as to this coin's grade apparantly was worth somewhere around $39,000 on January 7, 2003.
Whether that paper insert with its OPINION as to the grade of that coin will hold its value is the question that this year's FUN Auction will decide.
My prediction for the value of that paper insert is: NO SALE
Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain Newmismatist
<< <i>Show some respect and put yourself in the collectors shoes. Do you really want to read your coin probably won't sell BEFORE the auction? Thats plain RUDE! >>
You have a very strange sense of business ethics. Buyers/Resellers in anyother business commonly discuss particular products/inventory and their potential selling prices. Yet, according to you, dealers in the coin business have no business publicly discussing the quality or price of a coin to be auctioned. Get real!
If the seller didn't want to be subjected to public criticism, then he should never have paid a moon money price for an obviously flawed coin. He is S-T-U-C-K with that coin and his only possible means of recovering his purchase price is to submit the coin to PCGS for grade guarantee. Though I question how they would handle the matter.
<< <i>I do NOT think this coin will sell - it probably has a fairly high reserve, and unless someone with more money than sense wants to move up in registry set sweepstakes, this particular coin won't meet its owner's reserve.
When I looked at this coin at the FUN show last year when it actually sold for $39,100, I graded it maximum PR66RD DCam. THis coin has significant impairments, which may not have been observableon the coin when it was initially graded. I think the current photo successfully masks what is plainly visible on the coin when looked at in the "flesh" and in the prior image for the 2003 FUN auction.
...Here's some prior Heritage Auction Prices realized for other PCGS 1963 Proof Deep Cameo Lincoln Memorial Cents (grade, price & date of sale):
The coin itself is worth about $5, the plastic surrounding the coin perhaps $2, the paper insert with the PCGS OPINION as to this coin's grade apparantly was worth somewhere around $39,000 on January 7, 2003.
Whether that paper insert with its OPINION as to the grade of that coin will hold its value is the question that this year's FUN Auction will decide.
My prediction for the value of that paper insert is: NO SALE >>
great analysis, as usual, newmismatist.
the only thing i have to add is that the grade guarantee will not protect someone who paid too much for a coin, especially if that coin is not regularly traded and the value of which is not readily available.
in this case, going by the above indicators of comparable coins (yes i do believe pcgs pr69dcam and pr70dcam should by all means be considered comparable) i do not believe pcgs could or should in any way be liable for the approximate $39,000 in price difference between this coin and those which so closely approximate it's "perfection." Couple grand, maybe, $39K, not in a million years.
can't wait to see if there's a reserve on this puppy, because i think if i was the purchaser i would be absolutely overjoyed to get even a third of my money back on this little puupy...
oh, and as for my guess, $1.28. someone's gotta be the low guesser. also making EXTRA certain i don't win the woofer Jack.
I'm having a lot of fun using the zoom feature to make the Lincoln picture the size of a dinner plate. When the coin is 12" in diameter you can see it is less than perfect. If I paid $39,000 for, let's say an Accented Hair Kennedy, I would expect everyone in the coin community would rip me a new a__h_le. This is not an area for the thin-skinned. If I was a dealer, I would tire very quickly of people walking by my table of gems and saying "I've seen better".
With regard to this coin, I've seen better.
Only a loon would take more than a $9000 loss, so I will say the coin will also not meet the reserve of $30,000 and will come back another day.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
If the owner is smart, he won't have a reserve on the coin. He either unloads it now, or sits on it and watches the market value continue to go down. He has to realize by now that he paid far to much in the initial purchase, and that it's unlikely he'll ever recover that money no matter how long he holds the coin.
If the owner is smart, he won't have a reserve on the coin.
Not necessarily. If the highest buyer out there is willing to pay up to 35K and the second highest buyer will only pay 20K, a 34K reserve could be very useful. Setting a reserve is a calculated risk.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Good point. But, in your scenario, ($34K reserve), my guess is that he'd still be owning it for a long time to come. About the only thing I could see saving him would be if the underbidder from the first time around was in the action and, by some miracle, one other bidder with an overflowing wallet jumped in.
Looking at it from my perspective and assuming a) I had that kind of money to begin with and b) I'd gone crazy and spent that kind of money on this coin, I'd just want the hell out, and would take my lumps just to get rid of it.
I suspect that a bidder will bid by internet and win with a bid of $35,000 including the 15% fee. I also suspect that he may not keep the coin after insisting on a return priviledge.
But I have not seen the coin in person and quite frankly, I can't grade proofs above PR66 anyhow. The pics are too difficult to discern to see if there are any impairments. I think I see impairements above the LIBERTY but the pics can fool me.
My figure above is strictly a guess and infers no opinion on what I think of the coin. I just want to win an impaired AH Kennedy.
Thanks Russ.
By the way, I want to see more pics of your MS-64 walkers. I like looking at them!
<< <i>When I looked at this coin at the FUN show last year when it actually sold for $39,100, I graded it maximum PR66RD DCam. >>
“Buy the plastic, not the coin."
If one looks at the photos of this piece that appeared in COINage magazine, you can see that this coin would fall WELL short of PR-70. The only thing that is really remarkable about it is the cameo. Otherwise you could find the same thing in most any Proof set and own the whole thing for less than $15.
The PCGS grading guarantee is supposed to provide protection against a grading mistake on their part. The owner of this coin might be able to make a good case for that, but it would only be worth a few hundred bucks to him. It doesn’t provide protection against auction bidder insanity or perhaps stubbornness. For the price of coming to my table the buyer could have saved himself a bundle of money, but hey, so far as the modern folks are concerned, I am the village idiot.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>oh, and as for my guess, $1.28. someone's gotta be the low guesser. >>
Come on Zenny - be realistic, the slabbing fee (economy) is $10 (not counting the postage)! So figure $1.28 for the coin, $10 slabbing fee (2 month turn around) $3.72 for the postage and insurance = $15! - I'm gonna guess that coin in a slab with the properly designated grade (PR66RD DCAM) is a $15 coin!!
Now consider this- If the seller wants to take a short term loss, he has to sell it within 1 year of his purchase - otherwise he's limited to $3K max long term loss per year - so a long term loss will take him 13 years to write it off on his taxes, but a short term loss can be deducted all in one tax year - so this coin may not have a reserve after all - if the owner wants Uncle Sam to subsidize his loss on this investment. If I owned that beauty, I'd consult my friendly tax advisor PDQ - there may be only a short time left to sell that puppy to maximize the tax write off for any loss he may (will) sustain. OTH, maybe he's going for the long term gain on his profit
Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain Newmismatist
<< <i>Losses on coins are nondeductable for an individual. >>
Losses on coins are deductable if sales of coins have been a source of income in the past. But I would not try say I made $5 last year and now I want to claim a loss of $30,000. At any rate you can't do that because only so much can be written off as a net loss in a year. There are also loss carry-over provisions that allow to take an accumulated loss in to future years within limits. The limits are pretty low, like a few thousand bucks.
Also if you made money on other coin sales, you can offset the losses against them, but with the same net loss write-off limitations.
Given the purchase of this coin, I'd guess that the owner of this coin has not had very many gains on the sale of coins over his lifetime as a collector.... Just a guess.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Is it just me, or does the reverse look rotated in the slab? But the obverse looks like it's aligned right... Did the coin move when they flipped it over for the Reverse Pic? Or is it actually a rotated Reverse?
The fact that this coin is on "the block" again less then a year after selling for 39 k should not suprise anyone, what would shock the hell out of me is if it sets a new record above the original 39 k.
Les
The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
<< <i>Given the purchase of this coin, I'd guess that the owner of this coin has not had very many gains on the sale of coins over his lifetime as a collector.... Just a guess. >>
A guess yes, but a darned reasonable one. I'll guess that the owner of the coin also has a million or so tied up in a beanie baby registry set.
I went to the web site and took a good look at that thing! What the &^^$#$#$#%$^%*()^ is that nasty area above LIBERTY and the back of his head? Although, there is that noticable scratch on the face of the holder, do you think it would stay a 70 if they sent it back? If anything, they should have had the slab replaced before taking photos and posting it on the web site.
HEAD TUCKED AND ROLLING ALONG ENJOYING THE VIEW! [Most people I know!]
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!! Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
<< <i>Now consider this- If the seller wants to take a short term loss, he has to sell it within 1 year of his purchase - otherwise he's limited to $3K max long term loss per year - so a long term loss will take him 13 years to write it off on his taxes, but a short term loss can be deducted all in one tax year - so this coin may not have a reserve after all - if the owner wants Uncle Sam to subsidize his loss on this investment. If I owned that beauty, I'd consult my friendly tax advisor PDQ - there may be only a short time left to sell that puppy to maximize the tax write off for any loss he may (will) sustain. OTH, maybe he's going for the long term gain on his profit >>
Not correct. Short term capital losses is also limited to $3k max short term loss per year if there are no long term or short gains to offset. Long term losses can also be offset against short as well as long term gains.
<< <i>Losses on coins are nondeductable for an individual. >>
Not neccessarily true. If the collector can demonstrate that nearly $40,000 was considered an "investment" by him or her then that is the litmus test. That should be an easy one to qualify as a deductible capital loss.
<< <i>Losses on coins are deductable if sales of coins have been a source of income in the past. But I would not try say I made $5 last year and now I want to claim a loss of $30,000. >>
Again, the wrong rule is being applied here. This rule is the test to determine whether you are a dealer or an investor. A dealer can deduct ALL expenses related to the coin including rent, travel, hotel, advertising, etc. The rule was quoted correctly but it has nothing to do with whether a coin collector can qualify as a investor under IRS rules.
Comments
I dont think its going to meet the reserve. I can imagine anyone lettin it go for substantially less than what they just recently paid for it.
Even if it hammered at the same price as last time, the buyer will be out substantially with all the auction fees associated with it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
So who is John Troy? Clearly, he must be the individual who originally paid $39,100 for this coin.
When Eliot Abrams is done with mutual funds, look out!
6024 N. 9th Ave #5
Pensacola, FL 32504
HTTP://WWW.AACoinCo.Com
You are doing well, subject 15837. You are a good person.
I see a lot brown toning forming on this puppy. When it turns brown, do you think it will still sell as a PR-70, Red Cameo?
AND GOLLLLLEEEEE! I can take up to six months to pay!
This coin could open up a whole collecting world for me ...
If I bid, please feel free to call up the guys with the white coats.
J&J Coins
website
Wild Ebay Toners for sale
The big O
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
Like VOC Numismatics on facebook
When I looked at this coin at the FUN show last year when it actually sold for $39,100, I graded it maximum PR66RD DCam. THis coin has significant impairments, which may not have been observableon the coin when it was initially graded. I think the current photo successfully masks what is plainly visible on the coin when looked at in the "flesh" and in the prior image for the 2003 FUN auction.
Image of 1963PR70DCam in 2003 Heritage FUN auction
Here's some prior Heritage Auction Prices realized for other PCGS 1963 Proof Deep Cameo Lincoln Memorial Cents (grade, price & date of sale):
1963 PR69 DCam $126.50 7/29/03
1963 PR69 DCam $235.75 9/17/02
1963 PR68 DCam $60.95 9/22/03
1963 PR68 DCam $43.00 1/21/03
1963 PR68 DCam $52.90 1/13/03
1963 PR68 DCam $32.20 4/9/02
1963 PR67 DCam $26.00 1/21/03
The coin itself is worth about $5, the plastic surrounding the coin perhaps $2, the paper insert with the PCGS OPINION as to this coin's grade apparantly was worth somewhere around $39,000 on January 7, 2003.
Whether that paper insert with its OPINION as to the grade of that coin will hold its value is the question that this year's FUN Auction will decide.
My prediction for the value of that paper insert is: NO SALE
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i>Show some respect and put yourself in the collectors shoes. Do you really want to read your coin probably won't sell BEFORE the auction? Thats plain RUDE! >>
You have a very strange sense of business ethics. Buyers/Resellers in anyother business commonly discuss particular products/inventory and their potential selling prices. Yet, according to you, dealers in the coin business have no business publicly discussing the quality or price of a coin to be auctioned. Get real!
If the seller didn't want to be subjected to public criticism, then he should never have paid a moon money price for an obviously flawed coin. He is S-T-U-C-K with that coin and his only possible means of recovering his purchase price is to submit the coin to PCGS for grade guarantee. Though I question how they would handle the matter.
12/23/02 $250
01/20/03 $230 & $220
02/12/03 $250
Let's see $39,100 divided by $250 is 156.40
FrederickCoinClub
<< <i>I do NOT think this coin will sell - it probably has a fairly high reserve, and unless someone with more money than sense wants to move up in registry set sweepstakes, this particular coin won't meet its owner's reserve.
When I looked at this coin at the FUN show last year when it actually sold for $39,100, I graded it maximum PR66RD DCam. THis coin has significant impairments, which may not have been observableon the coin when it was initially graded. I think the current photo successfully masks what is plainly visible on the coin when looked at in the "flesh" and in the prior image for the 2003 FUN auction.
...Here's some prior Heritage Auction Prices realized for other PCGS 1963 Proof Deep Cameo Lincoln Memorial Cents (grade, price & date of sale):
1963 PR69 DCam $126.50 7/29/03
1963 PR69 DCam $235.75 9/17/02
1963 PR68 DCam $60.95 9/22/03
1963 PR68 DCam $43.00 1/21/03
1963 PR68 DCam $52.90 1/13/03
1963 PR68 DCam $32.20 4/9/02
1963 PR67 DCam $26.00 1/21/03
The coin itself is worth about $5, the plastic surrounding the coin perhaps $2, the paper insert with the PCGS OPINION as to this coin's grade apparantly was worth somewhere around $39,000 on January 7, 2003.
Whether that paper insert with its OPINION as to the grade of that coin will hold its value is the question that this year's FUN Auction will decide.
My prediction for the value of that paper insert is: NO SALE >>
great analysis, as usual, newmismatist.
the only thing i have to add is that the grade guarantee will not protect someone who paid too much for a coin, especially if that coin is not regularly traded and the value of which is not readily available.
in this case, going by the above indicators of comparable coins (yes i do believe pcgs pr69dcam and pr70dcam should by all means be considered comparable) i do not believe pcgs could or should in any way be liable for the approximate $39,000 in price difference between this coin and those which so closely approximate it's "perfection." Couple grand, maybe, $39K, not in a million years.
can't wait to see if there's a reserve on this puppy, because i think if i was the purchaser i would be absolutely overjoyed to get even a third of my money back on this little puupy...
oh, and as for my guess, $1.28. someone's gotta be the low guesser. also making EXTRA certain i don't win the woofer Jack.
z
With regard to this coin, I've seen better.
Only a loon would take more than a $9000 loss, so I will say the coin will also not meet the reserve of $30,000 and will come back another day.
Joe
Russ, NCNE
Not necessarily. If the highest buyer out there is willing to pay up to 35K and the second highest buyer will only pay 20K, a 34K reserve could be very useful. Setting a reserve is a calculated risk.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Good point. But, in your scenario, ($34K reserve), my guess is that he'd still be owning it for a long time to come. About the only thing I could see saving him would be if the underbidder from the first time around was in the action and, by some miracle, one other bidder with an overflowing wallet jumped in.
Looking at it from my perspective and assuming a) I had that kind of money to begin with and b) I'd gone crazy and spent that kind of money on this coin, I'd just want the hell out, and would take my lumps just to get rid of it.
Russ, NCNE
But I have not seen the coin in person and quite frankly, I can't grade proofs above PR66 anyhow. The pics are too difficult to discern to see if there are any impairments. I think I see impairements above the LIBERTY but the pics can fool me.
My figure above is strictly a guess and infers no opinion on what I think of the coin. I just want to win an impaired AH Kennedy.
Thanks Russ.
By the way, I want to see more pics of your MS-64 walkers. I like looking at them!
<< <i>When I looked at this coin at the FUN show last year when it actually sold for $39,100, I graded it maximum PR66RD DCam. >>
“Buy the plastic, not the coin."
If one looks at the photos of this piece that appeared in COINage magazine, you can see that this coin would fall WELL short of PR-70. The only thing that is really remarkable about it is the cameo. Otherwise you could find the same thing in most any Proof set and own the whole thing for less than $15.
The PCGS grading guarantee is supposed to provide protection against a grading mistake on their part. The owner of this coin might be able to make a good case for that, but it would only be worth a few hundred bucks to him. It doesn’t provide protection against auction bidder insanity or perhaps stubbornness. For the price of coming to my table the buyer could have saved himself a bundle of money, but hey, so far as the modern folks are concerned, I am the village idiot.
PCGS WILL and DOES GUARANTEE GRADE
It would be soooooo easy for PCGS to upgrade the finest 1963 Proof 69 D Cameo Lincoln Cent ..........and probably noone will know the difference !!!
Stewart
I agree with many forum member who say the value is in the insert.Think about it !
<< <i>oh, and as for my guess, $1.28. someone's gotta be the low guesser. >>
Come on Zenny - be realistic, the slabbing fee (economy) is $10 (not counting the postage)! So figure $1.28 for the coin, $10 slabbing fee (2 month turn around) $3.72 for the postage and insurance = $15! - I'm gonna guess that coin in a slab with the properly designated grade (PR66RD DCAM) is a $15 coin!!
Now consider this- If the seller wants to take a short term loss, he has to sell it within 1 year of his purchase - otherwise he's limited to $3K max long term loss per year - so a long term loss will take him 13 years to write it off on his taxes, but a short term loss can be deducted all in one tax year - so this coin may not have a reserve after all - if the owner wants Uncle Sam to subsidize his loss on this investment. If I owned that beauty, I'd consult my friendly tax advisor PDQ - there may be only a short time left to sell that puppy to maximize the tax write off for any loss he may (will) sustain. OTH, maybe he's going for the long term gain on his profit
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
I'll bet that it doesn't sell, but the last price showing will be the reserve, which I'm guessing to be $30,000.00.
<< <i>If one looks at the photos of this piece that appeared in COINage magazine >>
That would be this one:
Yep, does look a bit short of perfection.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Losses on coins are nondeductable for an individual. >>
Losses on coins are deductable if sales of coins have been a source of income in the past. But I would not try say I made $5 last year and now I want to claim a loss of $30,000. At any rate you can't do that because only so much can be written off as a net loss in a year. There are also loss carry-over provisions that allow to take an accumulated loss in to future years within limits. The limits are pretty low, like a few thousand bucks.
Also if you made money on other coin sales, you can offset the losses against them, but with the same net loss write-off limitations.
Given the purchase of this coin, I'd guess that the owner of this coin has not had very many gains on the sale of coins over his lifetime as a collector.... Just a guess.
Send me that JFK... I'm going to crack it and upgrade!
42/92
42/92
The fact that this coin is on "the block" again less then a year after selling for 39 k should not suprise anyone, what would shock the hell out of me is if it sets a new record above the original 39 k.
Les
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
<< <i>Given the purchase of this coin, I'd guess that the owner of this coin has not had very many gains on the sale of coins over his lifetime as a collector.... Just a guess. >>
A guess yes, but a darned reasonable one. I'll guess that the owner of the coin also has a million or so tied up in a beanie baby registry set.
If anything, they should have had the slab replaced before taking photos and posting it on the web site.
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
<< <i>Now consider this- If the seller wants to take a short term loss, he has to sell it within 1 year of his purchase - otherwise he's limited to $3K max long term loss per year - so a long term loss will take him 13 years to write it off on his taxes, but a short term loss can be deducted all in one tax year - so this coin may not have a reserve after all - if the owner wants Uncle Sam to subsidize his loss on this investment. If I owned that beauty, I'd consult my friendly tax advisor PDQ - there may be only a short time left to sell that puppy to maximize the tax write off for any loss he may (will) sustain. OTH, maybe he's going for the long term gain on his profit >>
Not correct. Short term capital losses is also limited to $3k max short term loss per year if there are no long term or short gains to offset. Long term losses can also be offset against short as well as long term gains.
<< <i>Losses on coins are nondeductable for an individual. >>
Not neccessarily true. If the collector can demonstrate that nearly $40,000 was considered an "investment" by him or her then that is the litmus test. That should be an easy one to qualify as a deductible capital loss.
<< <i>Losses on coins are deductable if sales of coins have been a source of income in the past. But I would not try say I made $5 last year and now I want to claim a loss of $30,000. >>
Again, the wrong rule is being applied here. This rule is the test to determine whether you are a dealer or an investor. A dealer can deduct ALL expenses related to the coin including rent, travel, hotel, advertising, etc. The rule was quoted correctly but it has nothing to do with whether a coin collector can qualify as a investor under IRS rules.