Raw Coins on EBAY?!?!

koreansteve · December 12, 2003 9:27AM

When buying non-slabbed coins on ebay, do you just go by the picture as to the grade of the coin?

I've never bought anything on ebay, but i think i'd like to. What i'm worried about is only having to go by a picture and the seller's self-grade and depending on them to serve as my judgement for a $10-50 purchase. I know that sometimes the pictures don't depict the coin exactly, so i was wondering if you guys have found the pictures along with the seller's self-proclaimed grade to be a good enough predictor of a coin's grade.

How do those of you who buy non-slabbed coins on ebay determine if the grade a seller has given a coin is the grade it deserves?

FatMan · December 12, 2003 9:34AM

Just Say NO! to raw coins on eBay.

razorface1027 · December 12, 2003 9:36AM

My experience...if they say it's AU it's XF with the majority. Most will say MS 60 or above and it turns out to be whizzed, cleaned, or dipped. Of all the vendors at ebay selling raw coins, I've come across only one vendor who grades and is reputible. If you want his name pm me...

DHeath · December 12, 2003 9:37AM

Since you are talking about relatively inexpensive coins, raw probably makes sense, but buying off ebay with a picture is only marginally better than buying blind. Several things come to mind. Look for a seller with good feedback, a reasonable return policy, and reasonable photos. It sometimes takes a bit of practice to interpret pictures, and one of the easier things to do is open and minimize your photo editor and leave it open while you browse. When you see something you like, drag the picture to your taskbar over the photo editor and it will maximize itself. Drop the photo into the editor and enlarge, brighten, enhance, or whatever you need to do to understand the image. If the pictures are inadequate, use the "ask seller" feature to request better pictures from the seller. Ignore the PCGS price guide, and buy based on the risk you are taking, and at an appropriately safe raw price. If you win a coin you feel was misrepresented in any way, return it immediately. Oh yeah, remember that tilted or angled pictures of the coin are VERY deceiving, and that coins have TWO sides.

Hope that helps!
Don

291fifth · December 12, 2003 9:38AM

Unless you are an EXPERIENCED collector who knows how to grade you should not buy raw coins on eBay. You have been warned!

Seriously, stick to PCGS, NGC or ANACS slabbed coins. Many of the lesser brands of slabs are as bad as the raw material offered on eBay.

Russ · December 12, 2003 9:38AM

<< <i>so i was wondering if you guys have found the pictures along with the seller's self-proclaimed grade to be a good enough predictor of a coin's grade. >>

In some cases, yes. In most cases no. I've found that the majority of sellers who list raw coins are less than competent in their grading abilities. This is not to say you can't get some deals, just be aware that it is difficult and requires research and care.

Russ, NCNE

Petescorner · December 12, 2003 9:39AM

If I could return all the raw coins I bought on eBay and get my money back, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

My advice: just say "no"

sinin1 · December 12, 2003 9:49AM

the only time I believe the grade a seller calls the item is when it is in a PCGS/NGC/ANACS slab - I also have an adjustment for ICG and lesser slabs

I grade myself from picture - if it is a high end coin I copy/get another opinion here

occassionally (frequently?) sellers have no idea how to grade and you can get a nice deal

a couple recent buys that hopefully will be better than what the seller called them for me
eBay items 2208678552 and 2208652027

but like others have said - raw coins occasionally have been messed with

66impalaSS · December 12, 2003 10:05AM

I have picked up some really good coins at a good price on ebay but you do have watch. Self graders usually grade a little high and you have to take that into consideration. Pics are a terrible way to have to grade, altho most in here seem to be pretty good at it!

dollardude · December 12, 2003 10:07AM

I agree with the sentiments above. If a coin is raw and graded by the seller, I automatically subtract an entire grade. On average, the seller usually overgrades the coin by an entire grade, i.e., AU is really XF, XF is really VF, etc. I make sure there is a clear picture so I can grade it for myself. Then, I ensure that there is a money back guarantee. Finally, I make sure the seller is someone I know and/or who has a good reputation. I usually only buy PCGS or NGC slabs, but sometimes will buy other slabs, but that is no guarantee either. Some non-PCGS/NGC slabbed coins sometimes have problems that are not indicated on the holder. I rarely buy raw coins, but sometimes I have to for a tough date at a reasonable price. I hope this helps.

MSD61 · December 12, 2003 10:10AM

I too have picked up some nice coins.....but buyer beware! One has to do their homework and be very picky

I don't even bother with sellers who do not post pictures of what they are selling and I never go one what thier grades are. In the ebay world every seller has a great coin to sell you

boston · December 12, 2003 10:21AM

Unless you have had good experience with the seller, consider the coin as if it as were in an ACG slab, except that you don't have to break it out!

ARCO · December 12, 2003 10:59AM

Circulated coins are just fine if a scan is large enough. Unc. coins costing more than $50.00 I would not trust the sellers descriptions. They could be right, they could be wrong, but with Ebay you will find that the majority of raw unc. coins are problematic and most likely overgraded.

here is a coin I sold. I stated the grade, posted a huge pic and got retail prices on the coin. 1915-S Barber half

Tyler

morganbarber · December 12, 2003 12:54PM

I thought that I was a relatively astute collector and could score on Ebay. I have, in the past,(years ago) gotten some great deals on online auctions. The las two Ebay lots I won had extremely misleading pictures. Not totally doctored and bogus, but still the pictures were phenominally complimentary. There is more to buying on Ebay than knowledge of coins.

Catch22 · December 12, 2003 1:11PM

Ok, you asked for advice and here it is:

If the coin is scarce or valuable and still raw, it likely has been cleaned or has other problems prohibiting it from being encapsulated.

Modern issues and less valuable coins (less than 50 bucks) are a little safer...usually.

Many obsolete, uncirculated coins that are offered raw have problems...cleaning, whizzed etc.

The two main considerations, and this can't be emphasized enough, do not do business with people who do not offer returns and learn how to evaluate and grade coins yourself. If either of these do not apply to you, do not use ebay...period. If you just can't keep yourself off of ebay and can't grade, keep your purchases small and inexpensive while you learn to grade. Otherwise, when you find out that the coins you bought are worth about 20% what you paid for them, look in the mirror and remember the advice everyone here has offered you.

That's blunt, but there is certainly enough scammers in the coin industry and ebay attracts them like a bug light.

SDCollector · December 12, 2003 1:21PM

I have had moderately good success buying raw Morgans on ebay so far. However I rarely spend more than $50 per coin and I don't buy anything above VF. This minimizes my risk somewhat since VG, F, and VF Morgans are relatively easy to grade and harsh cleaning is easier for me to detect on these grades. So far every coin has been overgraded by at least one level, i.e. VG=G, F=VG, VF=F and I bid accordingly.

I went over my $50 limit on one coin, a 1880-CC that I really wanted. It too was overgraded and has a couple of scratches, but I decided to keep the coin. I probably should have returned it, but I still like the coin and I consider it my ebay/coin collecting tuition.

Try and find a few trusted sellers, CU members here are a good place to start. I wouldn't give up on raw coins. It's a challenging aspect of the hobby and you have to be very careful.

Catch22 · December 12, 2003 1:29PM

Yes, i've returned many ebay coins that fail to identify a scratch that substantially effects the coin's value. This is a very common reason why they are on ebay. If the scratch doesn't bother you, that's ok, but remember, it does effect the coins value and will be an issue when you go to sell it. A 50 dollar coin grading VF with a scratch is probably a 20 or 30 dollar coin when you sell it.....if you can sell it.

Learn proper grading techniques that include using a 5X or 10X loop.

tgilliams · December 12, 2003 1:30PM

never buy raw on ebay

Raw Coins on EBAY?!?!

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