"There is another major difference and it makes all the difference in the world to collectors; These are rare in high grade!"
But what does that "high grade" represent? What does that number (69 versus 68) represent? It represents a miniscule difference in the preservation of a 68 versus a 69, a mark or two half the size of the period at the end of this sentence in an obscure location on the coin.
There is no mystery here. In essence "." in some obscure location can = $5,000 or $10,000
I've been around long enough not to be surprised by the amount of money people will lay down for these miniscule differences. But what I don't understand is why so much focus (what might account for 95% of the value of the coin) on something as minute as "." ? If the issue of rarity comes down to "." it's rarity with respect to the insignificant and obscure.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
<< <i>The large increase of collectors the last 5 years are all demanding modern stuff, especially HIGH GRADE PQ modern stuff, and they all love State Quarters and Commems. >>
"All" are demanding, and "all" love state quarters? I'm one of those new collectors and I couldn't care less about state quarters. So, you're at least one short of "all".
I am new to coin collecting, so excuse my ignorance. How can a state quarter that is still being sold by the mint be worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
<< <i>I am new to coin collecting, so excuse my ignorance. How can a state quarter that is still being sold by the mint be worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars. >>
<< <i>
I am interested in coins. The history is awesome. >>
A coin's age has relatively little to do with its value. Prices are set strictly by supply and demand which is determined by the combined desires of collecors and the num- bers of coins which survive.
By the same token historical importance is not determined solely by the age of a coin or you'd see that ancient coins would be of far greater value.
As far as states issues still being sold by the mint having high prices it should be remem- bered that coins are normally sold only in year of issue and then never made or sold again. If not for this coins would have little value because people would expect another run of '16-D dimes at any time. The current years coins are bought and sold by some at premiums largely due to the difficulty in acquiring the coins in high grade or the improbablity of similar coins showing up in the future. Time will tell if this speculation is accurate or not.
There are other factors that contribute to the values of these new coins that cladking did not mention- the PCGS and NGC registry sets(a competition of who has the best set) and the superb marketing of these coins in the market place as rarities in high grades even though they are one of the highest mintage coins ever produced. In my opinion it would be hard to find many coins more common. mike
After reading all this hype about the price state quarters in PCGS MS-69 increasing in the future to $2,500 to $20,000 a throw, I’m truly amazed that these prognosticators are giving out this valuable information FOR FREE. If I really knew about something that was going increase in price FAR, FAR faster than most any other investment, I’d be quietly stashing away hoards of these items, and I’d keep my mouth shut. That way I would have lots of them to sell when my ship came in. Instead we see one seller after another telling us about how we should be buying these coins NOW, perhaps from them, because they are going to be far more valuable a few years from now.
Are you really naive enough believe this stuff?
Here are a few facts that you should consider BEFORE you get deeply involved financially in this market.
1. The mintages are in the hundreds of millions. 2. The numbers of coins that are being preserved in Mint State are in the tens millions. 3. ONE grading service controls the supply of high grade state quarters that command these premium prices. 4. As noted in other posts concerning “classic coins,” grading standards are NOT applied consistently. Why should it be different for state quarters? 5. In the numismatic hobby the number of collectors who are willing to pay the going market prices drops of considerably once the prices exceed a few hundred dollars. 6. When the state quarter program ends, it will now longer be on the “front burner” of numismatics. Given the success that the U.S. mint has enjoyed from this program and others similar to it, there will be more, not less new coin programs in the future. Many of the collectors who are supporting the state quarter market now will have completed their sets and will not be actively supporting the market for these coins through new purchases. 7. Investors are “fair weather friends” when it comes to supporting a coin market. Once they decide to cash in or decide that this investment or speculation as gone sour, they will dump their holdings on the market and not support that market again. COLLECTORS set long-term coin prices. Don’t count on the investors and speculators to do it for you. They won’t be there.
All of this translates to a leveling or diminishing of demand while the high mintages and subjective nature of grading practices leave the supply side of the equation fluid.
If you believe that high grade state quarters are a great investment, go buy ‘em. But don’t come bad mouthing EVERY coin dealer and the numismatic hobby in general if you lose your butt. You have been shown an alternative opinion. Give it some consideration.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
If you believe that high grade state quarters are a great investment, go buy ‘em. But don’t come bad mouthing EVERY coin dealer and the numismatic hobby in general if you lose your butt. You have been shown an alternative opinion. Give it some consideration. >>
Curious but when I read this thread I see 18 posters bagging on states quarters and three doing their best to defend collecting them. It would seem the three constitute the alternative opinion. Whatever the originator of the thread desired, it is obvious that responses are almost uniformly against the coins and their potential for price increases.
Despite wild predictions that these coins would be graded in huge numbers and that there are billions of coins just waiting to be "made" (their term not mine), these coins still exist in scant numbers in high grade. High prices aren't bringing them out of the woodwork and despite nearly five years to find the high grades they still merely trickle in.
I've intentionally NEVER gave my opinion on the price potential for these coins, but am now willing to say this much; So long as there are large numbers of people eager to slam these coins at any opportunity, it is a safe bet that the prices will increase.
I enjoy collecting state quarters with my children. A great way to learn about history, geography, and numismatics. They are a great bargain at two bits from a grocery store or bank, no need to spend any more.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
I enjoy collecting them too in the form of Proof sets, especially the silver Proof sets.
Currently the 1999 set is "bid" at $ 190.00. That might be too high in the long run, but at least if you only buy one, those most you would be out would be perhaps $160. When you spead $400, the bargain price, for one of these state quarters, and buy an "investment" quantity of these coins, you are getting to an area when the risks get a lot higher for the just the reasons that I covered earlier.
As for rarity, let's say the number of state quarters in MS-69 is 0.01%. If you apply that factor to 100,000,000, which is far lower than any state quarter mintage thus far, you get 10,000 coins. If you assumed 0.001%, you get 1,000. Please note that we are talking CONDITION rarity here, NOT absolute rarity. Even the promoters will concede that there are many, many state quarters in MS-65 through 67 or 68.
In the world of Classic coins, 1,000 pieces in high grade would be viewed as a "hoard," which generally keeps prices down. AND given the fact that there are many many slightly lower grade pieces availble that would please most collectors, I think you can see the risk you are taking when you pay very high prices for these coins.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I'm surprised no one described this market as "WHITE HOT!"
FOM's convinced me.. I'm selling off my entire currency collection, switching exclusively to MS69 state quarters before this WHITE HOT market brings in WHITE HOT prices so I can sell my WHITE HOT coins to WHITE HOT buyers and make WHITE HOT profit!! I'll use my WHITE HOT earnings to buy a brand new WHITE HOT sports car which will turn the pavement WHITE HOT as I fly down the freeway at 200 WHITE HOT miles per hour!
Will the prices for these coins increase is one thing and it's a matter of speculation (you could add wild, crazy or outrageous in front of the word speculation but I won't go there). The WHY comes down to miniscule/minute and in my opinion insignificant differences in preservation and an undue emphasis on nearly microscopic differences.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
<< <i>FOM - welcome back, I haven't seen many posts from you lately
Of course they are going to skyrocket in value ( US Dollars ), mainly because the dollar is dropping -> gold is near $400/oz now as soon as it hits $2000/oz I predict PCGS MS69 quarters will be worth at least twice as much as they are now
don't let these people that think if a coin isn't at least 50 years old, than it is not a collectible mess with you - there are many here >>
I'm melting all my state quarters down right now and am going to cash in their gold value. Even at $400/oz I'll be rich rich rich!!!!!
A lot of people seem to be very hung up on the price of these coins but the people who are collecting them are just trying to have some fun. It's humorous that one dealer who chides people for being sure the coins will increase in value is apparently far more certain that the coins will decrease in value.
The fact that NO serious posters to this thread even suggested that the price will increase is simply hilarious. The only persons who appear to know the future are the bashers who know that these coins will crash and burn and drive all the newbies from the hobby. Of course before these coins and other moderns got so much attention these people knew that all these coins were crap and would always be crap.
Bashers really should examine their motives and see whose best interests they really have at heart. If they could be honest with themselves, most will see that this has nothing to do with anything but their own self interests.
They might ask themselves why the growth of hobby institutions has been so slow despite the influx of 136 million states quarter collectors. They might ask why there are rapidly dwindling numbers of these collectors despite the lack of the collapse they know is coming. They might ask they have done to encourage or start a new collector.
One thing no one has to ask after watching one thread on moderns after another (including virtually all the threads on states quarters) turn into a free for all for the bashers is why we don't see more newbies showing up around here.
Hi cladking, I think most realize these state quarters in high grades are nothing more than a high risk gamble at this stage. I am sure some will do really well with these coins but who will it be in the long run? the collectors/investors or the dealers hyping these coins? It would be very irresponsable to let all new collectors only hear the hype from dealers making money off these coins and not the reality that no matter what is said these coins are very high risk- I know this is a shoddy comparrison but the last time I saw something like this it was Beanie-Babies- and I don't mean this in the sense to make fun of you I mean it in the sense that there were thousands(maybe millions) of people buying these up and raising the prices to stupid money and not knowing or thinking of the risk involved or if they were really that special to have lasting power in the market place. mike
By the way the good guy's lost on battlestar galactica.
<< <i>Hi cladking, I think most realize these state quarters in high grades are nothing more than a high risk gamble at this stage. I am sure some will do really well with these coins but who will it be in the long run? the collectors/investors or the dealers hyping these coins? It would be very irresponsable to let all new collectors only hear the hype from dealers making money off these coins and not the reality that no matter what is said these coins are very high risk- I know this is a shoddy comparrison but the last time I saw something like this it was Beanie-Babies- and I don't mean this in the sense to make fun of you I mean it in the sense that there were thousands(maybe millions) of people buying these up and raising the prices to stupid money and not knowing or thinking of the risk involved or if they were really that special to have lasting power in the market place. mike
By the way the good guy's lost on battlestar galactica. >>
I don't collect, deal in, or speculate in the new quarters except for a "from circulation" collection and a few mint sets bought from the mint. I agree that the newbies shouldn't hear only one message, so why is the only message "these coins are crap and you'll lose your shirt". It's not only this thread, it's virtually every thread about states quarters from a market perspective.
No one knows where the prices of these coins is going and certainly spending large sums of money on a new coin can be considered risky, but it is not fair to the collectors, dealers and others involved with these coins to make that the sole message of the old timers to the newbies. It is not fair for a multitude of reasons and it's not appropriate since so few newbies are actually spending thousands of dollars to add coins to their collections.
It would be one thing if unscroupulous dealers were misrepresenting the coins or if unknowledgeable newbies were paying far more than market price, but this is hardly the case. THESE COINS ARE TRAD- ING AT MARKET PRICES. Sure everyone already understands this but some seem to have no idea how these prices are set. It's not wishing, hyping, or speculation that sets these prices. It's not me, TPG's, or lying, cheating dealers who set these prices. They are set by the marketplace. They are set by the hopes, dreams, blood, sweat, and tears of all those who desire to own them. They are set by the real world existence of the coins. Those who have a problem with this need to take it up with a higher pow- er and many of those who rail against this reality are simply sending the wrong message.
You respond to every thread with your message, so saying only one message ("these coins are crap and you'll lose your shirt") is broadcast is bunk. While the state quarters have brought in millions of collectors, most collect them from change as you do. My local shop has a dedicated list that come in to get the new quarters every ~10 weeks (you can only get one mint mark reliably from change). I do not think they have ever sold a certified state quarter. That market is almost non-existant in terms of the percent of state quarter collectors that collect certified coins.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i> I agree that the newbies shouldn't hear only one message, so why is the only message "these coins are crap and you'll lose your shirt" >>
I can't talk for the others but I don't think they are #$%@ I just think that you alway's make such a convincing arguement for the high grade state quarters that the uncertainity of these coins should be pointed out as well. mike
you never know what will happen in next weeks episode.
Comments
But what does that "high grade" represent? What does that number (69 versus 68) represent? It represents a miniscule difference in the preservation of a 68 versus a 69, a mark or two half the size of the period at the end of this sentence in an obscure location on the coin.
There is no mystery here. In essence "." in some obscure location can = $5,000 or $10,000
I've been around long enough not to be surprised by the amount of money people will lay down for these miniscule differences. But what I don't understand is why so much focus (what might account for 95% of the value of the coin) on something as minute as "." ? If the issue of rarity comes down to "." it's rarity with respect to the insignificant and obscure.
<< <i>The large increase of collectors the last 5 years are all demanding modern stuff, especially HIGH GRADE PQ modern stuff, and they all love State Quarters and Commems. >>
"All" are demanding, and "all" love state quarters? I'm one of those new collectors and I couldn't care less about state quarters. So, you're at least one short of "all".
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I am new to coin collecting, so excuse my ignorance. How can a state quarter that is still being sold by the mint be worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
<< <i>
I am interested in coins. The history is awesome.
>>
A coin's age has relatively little to do with its value. Prices are set strictly by supply
and demand which is determined by the combined desires of collecors and the num-
bers of coins which survive.
By the same token historical importance is not determined solely by the age of a coin
or you'd see that ancient coins would be of far greater value.
As far as states issues still being sold by the mint having high prices it should be remem-
bered that coins are normally sold only in year of issue and then never made or sold
again. If not for this coins would have little value because people would expect another
run of '16-D dimes at any time. The current years coins are bought and sold by some at
premiums largely due to the difficulty in acquiring the coins in high grade or the improbablity
of similar coins showing up in the future. Time will tell if this speculation is accurate or not.
Welcome aboard. Good luck.
<< <i>cladking, hurry up and respond- I gotta go watch the new Battlestar Galactica in a few minutes
It's not impossible that the registry drives the demand to some extent rather than the demand driving the registry.
Don't want to ruin the show for you, but the good guys are gonna win.
Are you really naive enough believe this stuff?
Here are a few facts that you should consider BEFORE you get deeply involved financially in this market.
1. The mintages are in the hundreds of millions.
2. The numbers of coins that are being preserved in Mint State are in the tens millions.
3. ONE grading service controls the supply of high grade state quarters that command these premium prices.
4. As noted in other posts concerning “classic coins,” grading standards are NOT applied consistently. Why should it be different for state quarters?
5. In the numismatic hobby the number of collectors who are willing to pay the going market prices drops of considerably once the prices exceed a few hundred dollars.
6. When the state quarter program ends, it will now longer be on the “front burner” of numismatics. Given the success that the U.S. mint has enjoyed from this program and others similar to it, there will be more, not less new coin programs in the future. Many of the collectors who are supporting the state quarter market now will have completed their sets and will not be actively supporting the market for these coins through new purchases.
7. Investors are “fair weather friends” when it comes to supporting a coin market. Once they decide to cash in or decide that this investment or speculation as gone sour, they will dump their holdings on the market and not support that market again. COLLECTORS set long-term coin prices. Don’t count on the investors and speculators to do it for you. They won’t be there.
All of this translates to a leveling or diminishing of demand while the high mintages and subjective nature of grading practices leave the supply side of the equation fluid.
If you believe that high grade state quarters are a great investment, go buy ‘em. But don’t come bad mouthing EVERY coin dealer and the numismatic hobby in general if you lose your butt. You have been shown an alternative opinion. Give it some consideration.
<< <i>.
If you believe that high grade state quarters are a great investment, go buy ‘em. But don’t come bad mouthing EVERY coin dealer and the numismatic hobby in general if you lose your butt. You have been shown an alternative opinion. Give it some consideration. >>
Curious but when I read this thread I see 18 posters bagging on states quarters and three
doing their best to defend collecting them. It would seem the three constitute the alternative
opinion. Whatever the originator of the thread desired, it is obvious that responses are almost
uniformly against the coins and their potential for price increases.
Despite wild predictions that these coins would be graded in huge numbers and that there are
billions of coins just waiting to be "made" (their term not mine), these coins still exist in scant
numbers in high grade. High prices aren't bringing them out of the woodwork and despite nearly
five years to find the high grades they still merely trickle in.
I've intentionally NEVER gave my opinion on the price potential for these coins, but am now willing
to say this much; So long as there are large numbers of people eager to slam these coins at any
opportunity, it is a safe bet that the prices will increase.
Currently the 1999 set is "bid" at $ 190.00. That might be too high in the long run, but at least if you only buy one, those most you would be out would be perhaps $160. When you spead $400, the bargain price, for one of these state quarters, and buy an "investment" quantity of these coins, you are getting to an area when the risks get a lot higher for the just the reasons that I covered earlier.
As for rarity, let's say the number of state quarters in MS-69 is 0.01%. If you apply that factor to 100,000,000, which is far lower than any state quarter mintage thus far, you get 10,000 coins. If you assumed 0.001%, you get 1,000. Please note that we are talking CONDITION rarity here, NOT absolute rarity. Even the promoters will concede that there are many, many state quarters in MS-65 through 67 or 68.
In the world of Classic coins, 1,000 pieces in high grade would be viewed as a "hoard," which generally keeps prices down. AND given the fact that there are many many slightly lower grade pieces availble that would please most collectors, I think you can see the risk you are taking when you pay very high prices for these coins.
Wondercoin
FOM's convinced me.. I'm selling off my entire currency collection, switching exclusively to MS69 state quarters before this WHITE HOT market brings in WHITE HOT prices so I can sell my WHITE HOT coins to WHITE HOT buyers and make WHITE HOT profit!! I'll use my WHITE HOT earnings to buy a brand new WHITE HOT sports car which will turn the pavement WHITE HOT as I fly down the freeway at 200 WHITE HOT miles per hour!
<< <i>FOM - welcome back, I haven't seen many posts from you lately
Of course they are going to skyrocket in value ( US Dollars ), mainly because the dollar is dropping -> gold is near $400/oz now as soon as it hits $2000/oz I predict PCGS MS69 quarters will be worth at least twice as much as they are now
don't let these people that think if a coin isn't at least 50 years old, than it is not a collectible mess with you - there are many here >>
I'm melting all my state quarters down right now and am going to cash in their gold value. Even at $400/oz I'll be rich rich rich!!!!!
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
who are collecting them are just trying to have some fun. It's humorous that one dealer
who chides people for being sure the coins will increase in value is apparently far more
certain that the coins will decrease in value.
The fact that NO serious posters to this thread even suggested that the price will increase
is simply hilarious. The only persons who appear to know the future are the bashers who
know that these coins will crash and burn and drive all the newbies from the hobby. Of
course before these coins and other moderns got so much attention these people knew that
all these coins were crap and would always be crap.
Bashers really should examine their motives and see whose best interests they really have
at heart. If they could be honest with themselves, most will see that this has nothing to do
with anything but their own self interests.
They might ask themselves why the growth of hobby institutions has been so slow despite
the influx of 136 million states quarter collectors. They might ask why there are rapidly dwindling
numbers of these collectors despite the lack of the collapse they know is coming. They might ask
they have done to encourage or start a new collector.
One thing no one has to ask after watching one thread on moderns after another (including
virtually all the threads on states quarters) turn into a free for all for the bashers is why we
don't see more newbies showing up around here.
By the way the good guy's lost on battlestar galactica
<< <i>Hi cladking, I think most realize these state quarters in high grades are nothing more than a high risk gamble at this stage. I am sure some will do really well with these coins but who will it be in the long run? the collectors/investors or the dealers hyping these coins? It would be very irresponsable to let all new collectors only hear the hype from dealers making money off these coins and not the reality that no matter what is said these coins are very high risk- I know this is a shoddy comparrison but the last time I saw something like this it was Beanie-Babies- and I don't mean this in the sense to make fun of you I mean it in the sense that there were thousands(maybe millions) of people buying these up and raising the prices to stupid money and not knowing or thinking of the risk involved or if they were really that special to have lasting power in the market place. mike
By the way the good guy's lost on battlestar galactica
I don't collect, deal in, or speculate in the new quarters except for a "from circulation" collection and
a few mint sets bought from the mint. I agree that the newbies shouldn't hear only one message,
so why is the only message "these coins are crap and you'll lose your shirt". It's not only this thread,
it's virtually every thread about states quarters from a market perspective.
No one knows where the prices of these coins is going and certainly spending large sums of money
on a new coin can be considered risky, but it is not fair to the collectors, dealers and others involved
with these coins to make that the sole message of the old timers to the newbies. It is not fair for a
multitude of reasons and it's not appropriate since so few newbies are actually spending thousands
of dollars to add coins to their collections.
It would be one thing if unscroupulous dealers were misrepresenting the coins or if unknowledgeable
newbies were paying far more than market price, but this is hardly the case. THESE COINS ARE TRAD-
ING AT MARKET PRICES. Sure everyone already understands this but some seem to have no idea how
these prices are set. It's not wishing, hyping, or speculation that sets these prices. It's not me, TPG's,
or lying, cheating dealers who set these prices. They are set by the marketplace. They are set by the
hopes, dreams, blood, sweat, and tears of all those who desire to own them. They are set by the real
world existence of the coins. Those who have a problem with this need to take it up with a higher pow-
er and many of those who rail against this reality are simply sending the wrong message.
Perhaps there's a sequel in the works.
You respond to every thread with your message, so saying only one message ("these coins are crap and you'll lose your shirt") is broadcast is bunk. While the state quarters have brought in millions of collectors, most collect them from change as you do. My local shop has a dedicated list that come in to get the new quarters every ~10 weeks (you can only get one mint mark reliably from change). I do not think they have ever sold a certified state quarter. That market is almost non-existant in terms of the percent of state quarter collectors that collect certified coins.
<< <i> I agree that the newbies shouldn't hear only one message,
so why is the only message "these coins are crap and you'll lose your shirt" >>
I can't talk for the others but I don't think they are #$%@ I just think that you alway's make such a convincing arguement for the high grade state quarters that the uncertainity of these coins should be pointed out as well. mike
you never know what will happen in next weeks episode.