As a seller should I feel bad for this buyer?

sadysta1 · December 7, 2003 12:57AM

I hoped this coin to sell for $30 tops and this is the link to the auction, what do you think?

FrattLaw · December 7, 2003 12:59AM

I think your expectation of $30 was too low.

Nice coin!

Michael

ColonialCoinUnion · December 7, 2003 1:02AM

What does 'improper storage' mean?

Catch22 · December 7, 2003 1:10AM

"Improper storage?" Jeez, Sadysta, were you storing it in a potato in your wife's oven?

BAJJERFAN · December 7, 2003 1:20AM

Please feel free to forward the OVERPAYMENT to my PeePal account!!!

BAJJERFAN@aol.com

MSD61 · December 7, 2003 1:25AM

I think it's a great coin! However, why should you feel bad for the buyer? It was obvious the buyer really wanted your coin and was willing to pay to whatever it took to secure it for themselves and for their collection. I wouldn’t feel bad because in an auction there is risk and the buyer was willing to take the risk. If anything, I’d feel great because I agree with others that $30 was a low figure for that coin IMHO.

robertpr · December 7, 2003 1:31AM

I agree that $30 was too low of an expectation for that coin. While I certainly wouldn't pay that kind of money for that coin, this is the trend for "monster toned" SAE's. I'm improperly storing one myself just to see what will happen to it and it has gained some very nice colors, though not as smoothly as yours did. Don't feel sorry for the buyer, the price was well within the current price trend for that type of coin.

sadysta1 · December 7, 2003 1:52AM

Actually about 10 people e-mailed me asking me how I did it. I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage"

HavanaJoe · December 7, 2003 2:12AM

<< Actually about 10 people e-mailed me asking me how I did it. I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage"

>>

I'd LOVE to tone one of my Eagles... I'm sure you don't want to give up all of your secrets, but do you have any basic advice for a newbie??

Newmismatist · December 7, 2003 3:51AM

<< I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage" >>

Is putting coins in iMproper stroage a euphamism for a "coin (toning) doctor"??

braddick · December 7, 2003 3:55AM

What's interesting is the Seller could have done even better business had he listed this one in the U.S. Coin Section of eBay ("bullion" and "U.S. coins" are now listed separately), say, under "dollars" or such.
He'd have had more hits and more potential bidders. Also using better Key Words would have struck more hits.

Bobk · December 7, 2003 3:59AM

No. Your add spells it out. Nice looking coin.

Russ · December 7, 2003 4:01AM

Tom,

I'm curious about your "improper" storage. I've handled quite a few with similar toning that were slabbed by the big two.

Russ, NCNE

Dog97 · December 7, 2003 4:03AM

I think you should feel very bad for the seller you scammed with your AT junk because you know bidders never read all the text and he didn't see "improper storage" in the fine print. You mislead him with <<<2000 siver eagle monster toning>>> Surprised you didn't say L@@K!! 2000 siver eagle monster rainbow toning.

stman · December 7, 2003 4:17AM

Dog97, LOL.... So you don't think the coin is "Original?" You know they say they are almost pure silver so they tone fast right?

relayer · December 7, 2003 4:34AM

Looks like you'll give Tonecoin2000 a run for his money

sadysta1 · December 7, 2003 6:25AM

Recipe:

You'll need:
1 (one) No.1 Coin Envelope
1 (one) silver Eagle (any date)
1 room without AC in the summer
1 room with really hot room heater in the winter

Steps:
1) Put Eagle in the envelope, don't seal.
2) Place it on the top of the room heater and leave it alone for about two years.
3) Perodically check the progress and flip the envelope over (that step may be omitted)
4) If successful reapply.
5) when satisfactory put the coin up for sale on Ebay.

stman · December 7, 2003 6:29AM

Or perhaps a person could just move to Florida huh? Bury them under a nice humid porch. This is all just hypothetical of course.

Bubblehead · December 7, 2003 6:35AM

I put my ASE's in a tupperware container full of stick matches. Takes about 6 months.

Newmismatist · December 7, 2003 6:35AM

<< Looks like you'll give Tonecoin2000 a run for his money >>

Am I missing something here?

Isn't INTENTIONALLY "improperly storing" a coin so that it "tones" the same as INTENTIONALLY Artificially toning it??

Where's the coin posse?
Where's the cry to stop this pernicious process?
- or is it ok if you AT coins, call it something else and make 10x what you paid?
NT / AT = OK as long as you make a bunch?

Maybe the answer is: - it's RAW - (must be ok to AT coins if they're RAW) - now I get it - it's the guy who gets it SLABBED who's the evil coin doctor, the AT guy is OK when he just SELLS them RAW! The new AT disclosure rules are "Improperly stored!"

stman · December 7, 2003 6:40AM

<< 

<< Looks like you'll give Tonecoin2000 a run for his money >>

Am I missing something here?

Isn't INTENTIONALLY "improperly storing" a coin so that it "tones" the same as INTENTIONALLY Artificially toning it??

Where's the coin posse?
Where's the cry to stop this pernicious process?
- or is it ok if you AT coins, call it something else and make 10x what you paid?
NT / AT = OK as long as you make a bunch?

Maybe the answer is: - it's RAW - (must be ok to AT coins if they're RAW) - now I get it - it's the guy who gets it SLABBED who's the evil coin doctor, the AT guy is OK when he just SELLS them RAW! The new AT disclosure rules are "Improperly stored!" >>

Good points, but sorry when it's one of our own.... there usually are different standards to go by. You have to find a non member of this board that doesn't post here, link their auction, and then FRY them. JMO of course.

MacCoin · December 7, 2003 7:01AM

what don't you think the buyer knows what he want and how much he want to spend on it.

Newmismatist · December 7, 2003 7:12AM

Well now that we have the secret receipe, it's really just quasi-AT (NT with little help from heat and a sulpher-laden 2x2). Quasi-AT is probably quasi-OK!

FrattLaw · December 7, 2003 8:07AM

This isn't coin doctoring, this is getting lucky. I'm sure if you placed 100 brillant 2003 SAEs in the same environment described, you would be lucky to get several to look like the coin posted. I've seen coins in Wayte Raymond albums sitting next to each other in the slots tone completely differently over a period of several years. Some nice, most brown and hazy. Improper storage is a hit or miss proposition.

Coin doctoring requires (a) intent (b) control (c) replication. While this situation might satisfy (a) I doubt highly that (b) and (c) can be met. Replication would indicate an almost fool-proof way of doctoring a coin that would insure not matter what coin that used, the results would basically be the same. Go see tonedcoin2003 auctions. We are sure that almost all his coins look the same and he is able to do it rather quickly with almost excellent replication. His work is coin doctoring. Finally, if you think waiting several years for the elements to take an effect on the surface of the coin is doctoring then I suppose that storing coins in any type of album or envelope should also be considered doctoring since almost all albums and envelopes tone coins, its just a matter of whether its pretty and how long it takes.

Michael

tsacch · December 7, 2003 8:34AM

AT in my book.......you cooked the coins slowly over a brief period ( 2 years ) where it should have taken decades. Cooked = AT imho

Nice look no doubt, but not spectacular like bag toning. I guess what gets me is the color runs up and down in the high and low spots on the coin, not like bag toning where they are usually different.

Shamika · December 7, 2003 10:46AM

I'm with Newmismatist and tsacch.

airplanenut · December 7, 2003 11:02AM

<< you cooked the coins slowly over a brief period ( 2 years ) where it should have taken decades >>

Based on the reactivity of pure silver, it wouldn't take decades to tone an eagle- a year or two in the right conditions (even the right album) will tone them up.

ARCO · December 7, 2003 11:12AM

Who cares if he tones dime a dozen SAE's? There are about 100 million more that are blast white for those who prefer them that way. Why is toning any different whether they are done intentionally in a week, intentionally over six years, or uninentionally for however long it takes?

It is the buyer's money and he can use it to buy an overpriced dinner at a formal restaurant, a painting at $3,000 a pop, this coin, or crack cocaine if it pleases him.

You made $90.00 bucks for the coin? Too bad the seller didn't pay $900 and if he did the coin would have been worth it, because he thought it was, just like any piece of art is.

Congrats!

Tyler

FrattLaw · December 7, 2003 12:32PM

<< AT in my book.......you cooked the coins slowly over a brief period ( 2 years ) where it should have taken decades. Cooked = AT imho >>

Sorry, but this is very myopic. I have a set a Roosies in a Wayte Raymond Album. They been in there about 8 months. I keep them in my safe where the temperature and humidty is higher then the surrounding air. I know Wayte Raymond Albums tone silver coins. I want them to tone, therefore I am a coin doctor and these coins are AT? Will all of them tone in monster colors. I highly doubt it. Will some just appear brown and hazy, sure. Will I get 1 thats really nice, MAYBE. Will I make a killing toning coins this way and be able to retire from being a lawyer -- NO!

Well I guess then most of what we call NT coins should really be considered AT. Do you really think that the collectors of yesteryear didn't know their coins toned in these albums. Sure they did. It doesn't take decades in most cases. It could happen in months or years. Could it be possible that many of today's coins that are dipped, whizzed, cleaned and hairlined are they way they are because those collectors from 60 years ago cleaned that colorful "tarnish" off their coins! The ones that they didn't get to are the gems of today. Why are the toned coins so desirable, color or originality. Maybe a little of both.

Michael

Newmismatist · December 7, 2003 12:33PM

<< This isn't coin doctoring, this is getting lucky. I'm sure if you placed 100 brillant 2003 SAEs in the same environment described, you would be lucky to get several to look like the coin posted. I've seen coins in Wayte Raymond albums sitting next to each other in the slots tone completely differently over a period of several years. Some nice, most brown and hazy. Improper storage is a hit or miss proposition. >>

Well Michael if he gets "lucky" on those next 2 coins he's got "Inproperly stored" will he loose his amateur status and become a professional coin doctor?

<< Coin doctoring requires (a) intent (b) control (c) replication. While this situation might satisfy (a) I doubt highly that (b) and (c) can be met. Replication would indicate an almost fool-proof way of doctoring a coin that would insure not matter what coin that used, the results would basically be the same. Go see tonedcoin2003 auctions. We are sure that almost all his coins look the same and he is able to do it rather quickly with almost excellent replication. His work is coin doctoring. Finally, if you think waiting several years for the elements to take an effect on the surface of the coin is doctoring then I suppose that storing coins in any type of album or envelope should also be considered doctoring since almost all albums and envelopes tone coins, its just a matter of whether its pretty and how long it takes. >>

Michael - it sure sounds like with sadysta1's must recent post

<< Actually about 10 people e-mailed me asking me how I did it. I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage" >>

coupled with his recipe (cook & turn regularly) intent is clear, he's working in a "controled environment & he certainly hopes to replicate his previous success - While you may doubt b & c, he's undoubtedly using a proven technique (envelopes with a sulpher content), he's just using a little "shake & bake" to speed up the process - How's that different than AT?

BTW do you have actual knowledge that tonedcoin2003 isn't just sticking his coins in an album for a year or 2? - Have you actually visually inspected any of his coins, say side by side with sadysta1's SAE that you like so well? Just to be clear, I'm not the least bit interested in buying any of tonedcoin2003's coins, nor would I pay $90+ for a "toned" SAE, but I certainly would like to hear exactly the factual basis for your unequivocal statement that "His work is coin doctoring." Is it based upon actual participation in ATing coins as tonedcoin2003's partner (actual knowledge) or are you basing this absolute, unequivocal condemnation that tonedcoin2003's "work is coin doctoring" on what you've seen on the web based on the posted the scans? I don't know any medical doctors who will give you a diagnosis over the phone without a personal exam, and IMHO I don't think you can successfully determine AT/NT without the same personal exam. (Maybe tonedcoin2003 is just very lucky!

)

razorface1027 · December 7, 2003 12:35PM

I quote Cagney..."You DIRTY raaats!"...

FrattLaw · December 7, 2003 12:59PM

<< BTW do you have actual knowledge that tonedcoin2003 isn't just sticking his coins in an album for a year or 2? >>

Actually there is a Board member either here or at NGC that posted pics of 2 commems he sold tonecoin2003, that ended up becoming toned in a short period of time (several weeks?) and were then put back up for sale. I will look for the thread and link it so you can see for yourself. And, by the way, I do have 1 of tonecoin2003's coins in my possession and I have inspected personally.

Here's the link --- tonecoin2003's commems with pics -- look for RobertB's post

As for whether sadysta1 gets lucky on his next 2, I suppose we will have to wait another 18 months for the results. And if by chance (if he as stopped laughing at this thread by then and reports his success or failure) those 2 other ASE have toned up all pretty and such, I would believe he is inching closer to being labeled at least an amateur coin doctor. Professional status would require a much larger inventory then 3 coins in 36 months.

<< he's undoubtedly using a proven technique (envelopes with a sulpher content), he's just using a little "shake & bake" to speed up the process - How's that different than AT? >>

Storing coins in envelopes is also a tried and true way of storing them. See my earlier post as to Wayte Raymond Albums.

Michael

As a seller should I feel bad for this buyer?

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