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As a seller should I feel bad for this buyer?
sadysta1
Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭
I hoped this coin to sell for $30 tops and this is the link to the auction, what do you think?
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Nice coin!
Michael
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
<< <i>Actually about 10 people e-mailed me asking me how I did it. I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage"
I'd LOVE to tone one of my Eagles... I'm sure you don't want to give up all of your secrets, but do you have any basic advice for a newbie??
Silver American Eagles ROCK
<< <i>I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage" >>
Is putting coins in iMproper stroage a euphamism for a "coin (toning) doctor"??
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
He'd have had more hits and more potential bidders. Also using better Key Words would have struck more hits.
I'm curious about your "improper" storage. I've handled quite a few with similar toning that were slabbed by the big two.
Russ, NCNE
Looks like you'll give Tonecoin2000 a run for his money
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
You'll need:
1 (one) No.1 Coin Envelope
1 (one) silver Eagle (any date)
1 room without AC in the summer
1 room with really hot room heater in the winter
Steps:
1) Put Eagle in the envelope, don't seal.
2) Place it on the top of the room heater and leave it alone for about two years.
3) Perodically check the progress and flip the envelope over (that step may be omitted)
4) If successful reapply.
5) when satisfactory put the coin up for sale on Ebay.
<< <i>Looks like you'll give Tonecoin2000 a run for his money >>
Am I missing something here?
Isn't INTENTIONALLY "improperly storing" a coin so that it "tones" the same as INTENTIONALLY Artificially toning it??
Where's the coin posse?
Where's the cry to stop this pernicious process?
- or is it ok if you AT coins, call it something else and make 10x what you paid?
NT / AT = OK as long as you make a bunch?
Maybe the answer is: - it's RAW - (must be ok to AT coins if they're RAW) - now I get it - it's the guy who gets it SLABBED who's the evil coin doctor, the AT guy is OK when he just SELLS them RAW! The new AT disclosure rules are "Improperly stored!"
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks like you'll give Tonecoin2000 a run for his money >>
Am I missing something here?
Isn't INTENTIONALLY "improperly storing" a coin so that it "tones" the same as INTENTIONALLY Artificially toning it??
Where's the coin posse?
Where's the cry to stop this pernicious process?
- or is it ok if you AT coins, call it something else and make 10x what you paid?
NT / AT = OK as long as you make a bunch?
Maybe the answer is: - it's RAW - (must be ok to AT coins if they're RAW) - now I get it - it's the guy who gets it SLABBED who's the evil coin doctor, the AT guy is OK when he just SELLS them RAW! The new AT disclosure rules are "Improperly stored!" >>
Good points, but sorry when it's one of our own.... there usually are different standards to go by. You have to find a non member of this board that doesn't post here, link their auction, and then FRY them. JMO of course.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Coin doctoring requires (a) intent (b) control (c) replication. While this situation might satisfy (a) I doubt highly that (b) and (c) can be met. Replication would indicate an almost fool-proof way of doctoring a coin that would insure not matter what coin that used, the results would basically be the same. Go see tonedcoin2003 auctions. We are sure that almost all his coins look the same and he is able to do it rather quickly with almost excellent replication. His work is coin doctoring. Finally, if you think waiting several years for the elements to take an effect on the surface of the coin is doctoring then I suppose that storing coins in any type of album or envelope should also be considered doctoring since almost all albums and envelopes tone coins, its just a matter of whether its pretty and how long it takes.
Michael
Nice look no doubt, but not spectacular like bag toning. I guess what gets me is the color runs up and down in the high and low spots on the coin, not like bag toning where they are usually different.
<< <i>you cooked the coins slowly over a brief period ( 2 years ) where it should have taken decades >>
Based on the reactivity of pure silver, it wouldn't take decades to tone an eagle- a year or two in the right conditions (even the right album) will tone them up.
It is the buyer's money and he can use it to buy an overpriced dinner at a formal restaurant, a painting at $3,000 a pop, this coin, or crack cocaine if it pleases him.
You made $90.00 bucks for the coin? Too bad the seller didn't pay $900 and if he did the coin would have been worth it, because he thought it was, just like any piece of art is.
Congrats!
Tyler
<< <i>AT in my book.......you cooked the coins slowly over a brief period ( 2 years ) where it should have taken decades. Cooked = AT imho >>
Sorry, but this is very myopic. I have a set a Roosies in a Wayte Raymond Album. They been in there about 8 months. I keep them in my safe where the temperature and humidty is higher then the surrounding air. I know Wayte Raymond Albums tone silver coins. I want them to tone, therefore I am a coin doctor and these coins are AT? Will all of them tone in monster colors. I highly doubt it. Will some just appear brown and hazy, sure. Will I get 1 thats really nice, MAYBE. Will I make a killing toning coins this way and be able to retire from being a lawyer -- NO!
Well I guess then most of what we call NT coins should really be considered AT. Do you really think that the collectors of yesteryear didn't know their coins toned in these albums. Sure they did. It doesn't take decades in most cases. It could happen in months or years. Could it be possible that many of today's coins that are dipped, whizzed, cleaned and hairlined are they way they are because those collectors from 60 years ago cleaned that colorful "tarnish" off their coins! The ones that they didn't get to are the gems of today. Why are the toned coins so desirable, color or originality. Maybe a little of both.
Michael
<< <i>This isn't coin doctoring, this is getting lucky. I'm sure if you placed 100 brillant 2003 SAEs in the same environment described, you would be lucky to get several to look like the coin posted. I've seen coins in Wayte Raymond albums sitting next to each other in the slots tone completely differently over a period of several years. Some nice, most brown and hazy. Improper storage is a hit or miss proposition. >>
Well Michael if he gets "lucky" on those next 2 coins he's got "Inproperly stored" will he loose his amateur status and become a professional coin doctor?
<< <i>Coin doctoring requires (a) intent (b) control (c) replication. While this situation might satisfy (a) I doubt highly that (b) and (c) can be met. Replication would indicate an almost fool-proof way of doctoring a coin that would insure not matter what coin that used, the results would basically be the same. Go see tonedcoin2003 auctions. We are sure that almost all his coins look the same and he is able to do it rather quickly with almost excellent replication. His work is coin doctoring. Finally, if you think waiting several years for the elements to take an effect on the surface of the coin is doctoring then I suppose that storing coins in any type of album or envelope should also be considered doctoring since almost all albums and envelopes tone coins, its just a matter of whether its pretty and how long it takes. >>
Michael - it sure sounds like with sadysta1's must recent post
<< <i>Actually about 10 people e-mailed me asking me how I did it. I already put two more eagles in "inproper storage" >>
coupled with his recipe (cook & turn regularly) intent is clear, he's working in a "controled environment & he certainly hopes to replicate his previous success - While you may doubt b & c, he's undoubtedly using a proven technique (envelopes with a sulpher content), he's just using a little "shake & bake" to speed up the process - How's that different than AT?
BTW do you have actual knowledge that tonedcoin2003 isn't just sticking his coins in an album for a year or 2? - Have you actually visually inspected any of his coins, say side by side with sadysta1's SAE that you like so well? Just to be clear, I'm not the least bit interested in buying any of tonedcoin2003's coins, nor would I pay $90+ for a "toned" SAE, but I certainly would like to hear exactly the factual basis for your unequivocal statement that "His work is coin doctoring." Is it based upon actual participation in ATing coins as tonedcoin2003's partner (actual knowledge) or are you basing this absolute, unequivocal condemnation that tonedcoin2003's "work is coin doctoring" on what you've seen on the web based on the posted the scans? I don't know any medical doctors who will give you a diagnosis over the phone without a personal exam, and IMHO I don't think you can successfully determine AT/NT without the same personal exam. (Maybe tonedcoin2003 is just very lucky!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>BTW do you have actual knowledge that tonedcoin2003 isn't just sticking his coins in an album for a year or 2? >>
Actually there is a Board member either here or at NGC that posted pics of 2 commems he sold tonecoin2003, that ended up becoming toned in a short period of time (several weeks?) and were then put back up for sale. I will look for the thread and link it so you can see for yourself. And, by the way, I do have 1 of tonecoin2003's coins in my possession and I have inspected personally.
Here's the link --- tonecoin2003's commems with pics -- look for RobertB's post
As for whether sadysta1 gets lucky on his next 2, I suppose we will have to wait another 18 months for the results. And if by chance (if he as stopped laughing at this thread by then and reports his success or failure) those 2 other ASE have toned up all pretty and such, I would believe he is inching closer to being labeled at least an amateur coin doctor. Professional status would require a much larger inventory then 3 coins in 36 months.
<< <i>he's undoubtedly using a proven technique (envelopes with a sulpher content), he's just using a little "shake & bake" to speed up the process - How's that different than AT? >>
Storing coins in envelopes is also a tried and true way of storing them. See my earlier post as to Wayte Raymond Albums.
Michael