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atarian · December 2, 2003 12:20PM

well after hard thinking and a few phone calls i found out alot of what i bought was misgraded (for the worse and a few were cleaned). and now im at the point that i cant really seem to trust any dealers by me. im opening this up to you all now. i know one or 2 offered me some advice. and im interested in listenign cause at this point i wont be willing ot buy from dealers . now i have my grade book so im on my way to grading. anyone know how to negot. a deal with dealers. get contacts and find people who arent money grubbin' slimballs?

RKKay · December 2, 2003 12:25PM

Mike Printz at Whitlow, Mark Feld at Pinnacle, Jon Rosenthal at RCNH, to name a few good guys.

Edited to add:

Oh, and I forgot, everyone at ANR.

stman · December 2, 2003 12:32PM

<< <i>now. i know one or 2 offered me some advice >>

I think you better go check that thread again.

Piece of advice.... Yes there are some good honest dealers on here.... but you still need to learn what you are doing.

Baley · December 2, 2003 12:39PM

Look man, it's simple: buy PCGS and NGC certified coins, for example on eBay, in various grades, at good market prices for the grade, until you learn how to grade coins and spot problems. Use the grades on them to practice grading raw coins by comparison. unfortunately, the only way to spot problems is by seeing them first hand, and usually buy buying a few (we have all done it and still sometimes do; it's part of the hobby) You already have a head start, it sounds like, because you already now own some problem coins that you can learn from. Build yourself a type set or choose a series, and learn

or quit. Your choice.

atarian · December 2, 2003 12:42PM

yes alot gave me advice. (thank you all for). i was wondering there was one that said theyd be willing to show me about contacts and dealers and take me under their wing. im glad its onyl a few bad coins and a poorly presented 1914d

razorface1027 · December 2, 2003 12:48PM

ditto: To what Baley said...PCGS all the way as templets for raws...

njcoincrank · December 2, 2003 12:58PM

Perhaps a trip to the ANA's summer seminar.

Start out with the basic grading class. After that they have advanced grading classes available.

Be patient. What you are seeking CANNOT be learned quickly.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, on these boards made mistakes early on in their collecting.

Go to a local, or better yet a major, coin show. Talk to the dealers set up there. Remember to follow your gut instinct. First impressions are generally correct. If you really like the guy/gal, then they may be the dealer for you. If you dislike them, personality etc, chances are they aren't the dealer for you.

And lastly...contrary to popular collector lore, not all dealers are slimballs.

njcoincrank

SarasotaFrank · December 2, 2003 1:00PM

You would be well served to make any future purchases from Jon at Rare Coins of New Hampshire.

Check the inventory on their web site Here

tradedollarnut · December 2, 2003 1:05PM

And lastly...contrary to popular collector lore, not all dealers are slimballs.

yup - most of 'em are butterballs!

Look at as many slabs as you can. Cover the grades with your thumb and guess the grade. When you finally start guessing lower than the insert, then you can start to buy PCGS and NGC coins. Be sure to try to sell some along the way to see how you did - trust me...that more than anything will make you hold onto your money tighter when thinking of buying a coin.

And last, but certainly not least, buy only coins that simply blow you away. The short term happiness of a low price bargain fades whereas you will never tire of looking at the more expensive coin that caught your eye!

DaveG · December 2, 2003 1:21PM

I highly recommend you read Scott Travers' "Coin Collector's Survival Manual". It's a great introduction to how to go about being a coin collector.

Next, decide what you want to collect and read all the books there are about your specialty. The collectors who make money on their collections are the ones who know the most.

Next, go to a lot of coin shows and look at the coins being offered so that you know what nice examples (and bad examples!) look like.

Next, if you're going to collect expensive coins, pick a few dealers to work with.

Finally, don't expect to make money when you sell your coins unless you hold them for a fairly long time - say about 10 years. (Collectors who make money on a shorter holding period are called dealers!)

Collect because you enjoy it, not because you think you'll make money at it.

dollardude · December 2, 2003 1:22PM

My favorite dealer, and the one I trust the most, is a guy who was mentioned a couple of times already in this thread - Jon Rosenthal of Rare Coins of New Hampshire (www.rare-coins.com), Milford, NH. I have met him in person, and have been to his place of business IN PERSON. It is a very professional small office on the 2nd floor of a bank building. It doesn't even look like they sell coins there, and you have to have an appointment to get in, so call first if you go there in person. Others that I trust include:

1. Mike Casper of Michael Casper Rare Coins (www.caspercoin.com), Ithaca, NY (VERY high end silver dollars),
2. Lee of L&C Coins (www.lccoins.com), Los Alamitos, CA (complete selection),
3. Larry and Steve of PQDollars (www.pqdollars.com), Gardena, CA and Gilbert, SC (high end silver dollars),
4. Wade Moore, a traditional dealer in Selmer, TN (in person only at shows -- no internet) (complete selection),
5. RARCOA of Willowbrook, IL (complete selection),
6. Elie of Goldngift of Wichita, KS (modern gold and silver), and
7. Angelica of North America Certified Trading (NACT), Irvine, CA (complete selection).

If you can find an honest dealer who can sort of "mentor" you as you learn (and purchase from them), that would be good. Mike Casper is probably one of the best in this field, but he is a very busy man and only handles the best of the best. Jon Rosenthal is very good also, and takes time to explain everything to you when considering a purchase. My local dealer, Charles Cataldo (Alabama Coin & Silver Company, Huntsville, AL), is also very good at explaining things to you. I am a member of a local coin club, and he has spoken to us several times.

Listen, you aren't the only one who's paid some "stupid tax". I've paid some "stupid tax" myself!

Catch22 · December 2, 2003 2:00PM

Can't agree with Dollardude on L&C Coins. I've attempted several transactions with these folks and though they do offer a large selection, I've returned more coins to them for being over graded and cleaned than I have kept. The customer service was what I would expect from such dealers...poor.

Don't discount the advice to educate yourself before buying more coins. You'll enjoy the hobby more and be able to quickly recognize problem and over graded coins, not to mention being better prepared to evaluate value.

richbeat · December 2, 2003 3:07PM

If I remember my threads correctly, it was Laura Sperber of Legend who offered to help you and possibly get some of your money back. That was a VERY generous offer from her. I would definitely contact her. Good luck!!

wingedliberty · December 2, 2003 8:26PM

Read the original thread again.

hamiltonjh · December 2, 2003 9:10PM

In my opinion....dont write off dealers. you've had some bad deals and that sucks, but it's no reason to go it on your own. I started collecting coins then came overseas and I dont have a dealer to talk to. I'm FORCED to learn on my own by reading and as some are suggesting, parctice grading.
Learn what you can through books, this website and any other good coin websites out there. Once you have learned the grades and have gotten good at it (grading), you'll be able to deal better with those "slimeball" dealers because YOU WILL BE ARMED WITH KNOWLEDGE. They'll see that, they wont jerk you around, and you'll get more respect as a buyer from those same slimeball dealers.

for what it's worth....hope that helps

dorkkarl · December 2, 2003 9:34PM

if you got ripped as bad as you make it out, then the REAL problem is that you weren't buying coins from coin dealers, you were buying coins from idiots &/or scam artists. very, very few DEALERS that i know rip people off. basically, what i'm trying to tell you is that part of the def'n of "COIN DEALER" does not include someone who rips you off. that's what a scam artist does

i wish other members of the forum would get a clue & stop bashing "dealers" & instead bash scam artists. the 2 are not the same.

K S

GOLDSAINT · December 2, 2003 10:12PM

I think you need to evaluate why you are doing this. If you think you are going to make a huge fortune with a few thousand dollars in a short period of time, you need to revaluate that position. There are just to many other players in this market with too much experience for you to do that. If you like the hobby and just want something interesting to do with your time that MIGHT also be a good investment in the future then you must do your homework and learn how to grade. My advice is to do that first before you buy anything else. DON’T buy slabs there is a plastic bubble out there. Many slabs are selling for large premiums that have nothing to do with the coin inside. Dealers like slabs because it gives their uneducated customers a comfort blanket, but these plastic premiums of 20% to 50% just to be in a plastic holder are not a good way to go for the long-term collector with limited money. Last, most dealers are very honest but they like all business people get a little desperate when the supply of their product starts drying up. If this market continues upward there will be more of a tendency to over grade, and if the bubble starts to blow out the dealers will start to unload!

BillJones · December 2, 2003 10:16PM

The bottomline is YOU have to learn to grade coins. The claim that one can buy only PCGS and NGC coins and be "safe" is NOT valid. Take the advice of those who tell you to look at as many coins as possible.

Also if you are lucky enough to find a local dealer who will spend time with you and teach you the ropes, take advantage of it. AND return his kindness with some business even if what he is selling you does not look like a bargain.

I've found that paying a bit more for a REALLY nice coin for the grade pays dividends in the long run. Maringal stuff is ALWAYS marginal. NICE stuffs gets sold FAST if the price is at all reasonable.

Veep · December 3, 2003 12:27AM

While slabbed coins are a good safety net, they still leave you open to losing money. Some coins in slabs are mis-graded, other are poor for the grade. Education is your best bet. Take the ANA grading course, if you can. If not, join the ANA and borrow their videos on grading and authentication. Then, as so many others havre suggested, look at as many coins as you can. Shows are great for this. Even better is a large show with an auction where you can plunk down at a table and look at coins for an hour, or two according to Tradedollar's "thumb covering" method.

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