Why is RAW Bad?

Nic · November 28, 2003 10:51AM

Don't get me wrong. I think the grading services are a big plus for the hobby. It still amazes me that folks who spend big money will not buy raw coins. Not that I sell them. If you spend big money you should know grading and thus not be scared of the occasional raw offering. IMHO. Many early coins, especially copper, are and will be traded raw. K

trozau · November 28, 2003 10:53AM

bad?

fcloud · November 28, 2003 10:57AM

There is nothing wrong with raw coins, but you need to make sure you understand the grades. Many times a coin you buy at one grade, will not be that grade when you try to sell it back to a dealer. Some certified coins have the mystery taken out. But it will depend on what part of the country you live in. The area I live in dealer hate certifed coins and only offer a few for sale, and do not offer any type of premium for having the coin certified.

A great example is what one of the local dealer told me. If you bring in an MS67 1943 steel cent, he will offer you about $2.00 for the "unc" cent.

There are bargains to be found in rare coins, too. Many dealer don't look or cherry pick their own stock.

BAJJERFAN · November 28, 2003 10:59AM

I guess it depends whats raw

. Raw isn't BAD its just that it can be extremely RISKY when it comes to buying raw coins.

Catch22 · November 28, 2003 11:03AM

Nothing wrong with buying and selling raw coins....if you have the experience and character to conduct yourself honorably. My experience in the hobby leads me to conclude that it is extremely dangerous and expensive for newer hobbyists and collectors. I look at certified coins like I would buying a used car with an experienced machanic giving it reasonable evaluation and opinion. Depending on how much you are plunking down, it can be a wise expense.

Skipper53 · November 28, 2003 11:05AM

Raw is only bad when the buyer isn't proficient at grading.
A coin that has been cleaned may look great but may be worth
less than half what a dishonest dealer is asking.

Nic · November 28, 2003 11:05AM

Sorry about hitting the "post" too soon. I like raw coins... and almost all raw.... just fine

! K

roadrunner · November 28, 2003 11:47AM

Raw always has more risks associated with it unless you are certain the color or toning have not been played with. I'd say for every 10 raw coins I buy, a few are losers due to artificial toning or what have you. I think the safest route for 90%+ of the hobby is buying select slabbed coins....and leaving them there. I'm still smarting over 3 ANACS coins that all came back from NGC with some type of surface problem (altered surfaces on a gem cameo proof, stained surfaces on a gem Lib nickel, and AT on a choice unc seated quarter). I purchased what I thought was a totally orig and superb raw seated quarter last year out of an old estate that failed to grade out twice due to "stained" surfaces. A number of major dealers would not touch the coin once I mentioned how it came back. After a year of trying to sell it, I finally made 20% on the coin, but had expected to do much better on it. I have no doubts someone will get that in a 66 holder but I couldn't even get the coin in any holder. The risk goes up as the price goes up.

Raw coins have issues and are always a potential minefield. Now if you are able to buy the coins for one grade less than you think they'll grade out then super. No real risk. But if you are paying CDN bid or just under it based on getting the correct grade, you'll take your share of lumps. As a rule it is not worth it. There are lots of PQ slabs to buy to keep one occupied. But the allure of "scoring" on a raw coin is always enticing.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut · November 28, 2003 11:54AM

If I ever were to sell my collection at auction, there are certain coins that I'd sell raw. These are the super PQ coins that are a knat's eyelash away from the next grade. They are of such quality that I have no doubt that two bidders would assess them at the next grade and pay very close to that value.

Sadly, the power of the holder cuts both ways and I'd expect to realize less for them in their current holder.

Nic · November 28, 2003 11:59AM

Roadrunner I agree. I should have made myself more clear. My point was that raw is not good or bad... its the coin. I often see coins questioned or panned here only because they are not in a slab. That is very narrow minded. On the same note a holdered coin can still cost one two grades worth of money or more. One should not buy either unless comfortable with grading. K

Android · November 28, 2003 12:19PM

I actually prefer buying coins raw, only sight seen of course. I then send them in for certification to see if the services agree with my assessment. We agree about 90% of the time, and for those that we don't agree on, half are 1 point lower and half are 1 point higher than I thought. A big part of the FUN of collecting for me is pursuing raw coins and then sending them in for certification.

numobri · November 28, 2003 12:37PM

I, like Android,have been doing well,turning RAW coins into SLABBED coins.It helps to pay for my mistakes.I think i'm even.

elwood · November 28, 2003 12:48PM

I don't think raw coins are bad. I love raw coins.
What makes me nervous is when I see a coin with obvious wear (AU-58) in a MS-63 or 64 holder.

Which would you rather buy an AU-58 raw coin for $12,000.00 or a slabbed 63-64
for $20-$30,000.00 (same coin)

Now which do you like better, Raw or Certified?

TommyB · November 28, 2003 12:58PM

I think this is an example of someone that is going to be getting ripped off. 37-s Washington

roadrunner · November 28, 2003 1:01PM

Android, I love your 90% hit rate on raw coins. That's right up there with the very best. Kudos.

I had one auction submission to NGC where 90% of the toned raw seated coins I sent in came back 1 pt lower across the board. The next time in, 75% of them went up a point. Even If I can reach the 80% hit level, I cannot consisently hit that overall with the grading services being a moving target. That's what the real problem is, consistency. If my submission is seen after the graders have done modern proofs for 2 hours do you think they'll be primed for a fair assessment of classic type?? Not likely.

Raw can be nice, but it has many more risks too. Sometimes you just don't want to tie up money for a few months while you resubmit 2 to 3 times to get the market correct grade. Your upside on raw is often times much higher but with additional risk attached to it.

roadrunner

Dog97 · November 28, 2003 1:05PM

I'll buy big $$ coins raw but I rarely see any decent decent raw stuff. I rarely see any decent slabbed stuff for that matter. Like everybody else said, if you understand grading, cleaning & AT & all that, more power to you but most of the raw stuff posted here for discussion comes straight from sleazeBay so therefore most of us automatically say raw coins are junky, problem coins to be avoided.

ccr · November 28, 2003 1:18PM

Dog97 said what I was going to say, you`ll get ripped off most of the time if you don`t know what your looking at, raw or slabbed. Most of the coins I have are inexpensive so the risk for me ( money wise ) isn`t as great as some and more then others. But still I like to get quality for my money and not get ripped off in the process.

BillJones · November 28, 2003 2:02PM

I agree with Dog. Most of the expensive raw coins that you see have a problem, either obvious or hidden. In addition to that a one point slip up can cost you money.

I bought a raw Proof silver three cent piece for a want list customer, which I thought would get a PR-64 for sure for fat PR-63 money. The coin comes back a PR-63. I'm down $50 or $60. Not a lot to lose, but you can not afford to do that all the time. And the money is such that a re-grade is a waste of time and money. It's just easier to buy the coin in the holder to start with.

BAJJERFAN · November 28, 2003 2:03PM

Actually Michael Jackson is BAD. LOL

melikecoins · November 28, 2003 2:04PM

RAW! Thats all I buy

Glen

JasonRox · November 28, 2003 3:29PM

All I have is raw.

If I were to spend a pretty penny on a coin, I would prefer certified.

If you did your research, certified is not necessary because you should know everything there is to know.

Note: Always bargain.

Why is RAW Bad?

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