South Fla. dealer goes NGC only

sumner1984 · November 26, 2003 3:24PM

Do you think its right that a dealer only sell NGC coins ? Why not sell both holders and give the customer a choice ? I have purchased some PCGS coins from this dealer in the past and now he only sells NGC coins. I told him I ONLY purchase PCGS coins and will go else where. He hung up the phone. Thats fine with me, next week I will venture to a authorized PCGS dealer wich is what I should of been doing all the while.

lordmarcovan · November 26, 2003 3:31PM

He can sell whatever he wants, as long as it's legal.

Just as you can shop wherever you want.

TWODOGS · November 26, 2003 4:02PM

I only buy coins I like.

mintluster · November 26, 2003 4:23PM

His loss, not yours, you can go find PLENTY off dealers who do sell PCGS. What kind of a moron in the coin business would choose to NOT sell PCGS coins, considering various test results have proven they are the most popular and sell for the highest price?

greghansen · November 26, 2003 5:39PM

he only sells NGC coins. I told him I ONLY purchase PCGS coins and will go else where. He hung up the phone

It sounds like the two of you have reached an agreement not to conduct any more business. I don't know why a dealer should have to sell coins slabbed by a particular company just because they are the only ones you want to buy...and obviously there is no requirement that you patronize his/her business.

If I had been informed by someone that they only buy coins slabbed by a particular company and it was my business practice not to stock coins from that company, I would have probably had a pretty similar response, except to perhaps preface the hang up with the comment something like..."well I understand your preference, I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to help you". It doesn't sound like he wanted to engage in a debate with you regarding the merits of the grading services and I can understand that. If he is running a business he might have had a couple of other things to do.

I don't understand the reason for his policy.
I don't understand the reason for your policy.
I do understand the dealers response.

sumner1984 · November 26, 2003 6:01PM

What I think is that he gets the NGC graded coins at a really good price, but to get that special price he made a deal with NGC that he ONLY stock NGC coins. And selling another grading service slab would void his contract with NGC. In fact he told me that PCGS was just to slow and expensive to deal with. Perhaps PCGS is alittle slower and expensive cause they do a better job.Think this dealer made a poor choice .I will not call him again.

MacCoin · November 26, 2003 6:03PM

<< He can sell whatever he wants, as long as it's legal. Just as you can shop wherever you want. >>

thats the way I feel. I know a lot of guys who only buy NCG or PCGS or raw.

ElectricEye · November 26, 2003 6:29PM

sounds very hard to believe ~ what dealer name and phone number?

nalamolly5 · November 26, 2003 7:58PM

it is fine he only sells ngc. go into his shop, bring him a coffee, and look over his stuff, and make an offer on what you like, and then try to cross it over. but only if you like the coin and it's probability of crossing. ngc is way above the likes of acg, ntc and pci, so don't automatically cross this dealer of your list.

Rampage · November 26, 2003 9:13PM

Who was the dealer?

fivecents · November 26, 2003 9:17PM

sumner1984....You shouldn't limit yourself only to PCGS graded coins. NGC has some nice coins in their holders also.
nalamolley is right you can buy NGC and try to cross to PCGS.

IrishMike · November 26, 2003 9:48PM

I've never purchased an NGC, PCGS or ANACS coin. Now I have purchased slabbed coins graded by these companies. There is a large dealer in my state who had gone to only selling raw coins or coins slabbed by NGC. I asked one of their sales people about it and here is the response I received, we are tired of buying raw coins knowing what grades they are and having them come back with obvious unreasonable grades after waiting over 2 months for them. They submit hundreds of coins a month and couldn't afford to have inventory sitting around 1500 miles away for 60 plus days. At least with NGC they get consistent grades and therefore know which coins to buy and submit. Any premium they might receive for a coin graded by PCGS dissapated with the aditional overhead and inconsistent grading.

The majority of collectors out there don't care whether their coins are in PCGS, ANACS or NGC holders as long as they are graded fairly. You obviously do for whatever reason and the dealer probably realized no reasonable explanation would suffice. I am not criticizing you for your choice, as a matter of fact I frequent a certain restaurant because it serves coke rather than pepsi.

darktone · November 26, 2003 10:05PM

Sumner as you learn more about grading you will learn it's about the coin not the holder. Take a look at this dealers coins and if you find a coin you like at a price you like buy it. I can see this dealers point about the waiting and expense of slabbing with PCGS. Also to those that are surprised that a dealer only sells slabs by one company- just click on the DHRC link at the top of this page

. mike

Catch22 · November 26, 2003 10:22PM

What a bonehead business decision. About as smart as posting a sign that says "Democrats only" on your store front.

fcloud · November 26, 2003 10:24PM

Even shop at home sells both NGC and PCGS.

They have a lot of PCGS in their Vault Finds.

BigD5 · November 26, 2003 10:36PM

<< What I think is that he gets the NGC graded coins at a really good price, but to get that special price he made a deal with NGC that he ONLY stock NGC coins. And selling another grading service slab would void his contract with NGC. In fact he told me that PCGS was just to slow and expensive to deal with. Perhaps PCGS is alittle slower and expensive cause they do a better job.Think this dealer made a poor choice .I will not call him again. >>

There would be no such deal with NGC to stock NGC graded coins only. He may have negotiated a cheaper submisson rate if he consistently submits x number of coins.

Pcgs is too slow for a lot of dealers, although it seems their turnaround time has improved immensely as of late. Their cost is very similar to ngc, so I'm not sure if that would be a deterrent.

There are 4 regional dealers in my area that don't submit to pcgs any longer. Two who carry VERY significant inventories.
Heck, I don't submit more than a dozen coins to pcgs, but I'll send off 60-100 coins (at least), to ngc and anacs, this year.

Your "perhaps pcgs is a little slower and expensive cause they do a better job" comment is hard to believe. I guess you would have to define "better", and probably insufficient staffing is to blame for the delay's.

With all that said, I'm not sure why a dealer would only sell NGC graded coins. Any decision that alienates a large segment of the market can't be a good one. Strange decision to comprehend.

BillJones · November 26, 2003 10:50PM

I'll never endorse one service over the other. I'd also support a third or fourth company if they would provide viable service.

As I have written many times before collectors and small dealers will lose if one grading service were to get into a totally dominant market position.

4thStooge · November 26, 2003 11:10PM

In terms of turn around times and grading consistency NGC has PCGS beat all to heck. IMHO, the majority of dealers have gravitated to the NGC grading bar. Besides, many dealers don't appreciate how PCGS has gone out of their way to hurt their businesses.

BillJones · November 26, 2003 11:15PM

In a sense it’s refreshing to see a Florida dealer devote his inventory to a top company like NGC. I moved here in July and have started to take tables at the various shows. I am amazed at how many dealers down here have cases full of the SEGS, NTC, PCI, ICG and yes even ACG coins. They won’t survive doing that up north, but I guess you can sell that stuff down here. These guys show up at show after show.

wingedliberty · November 27, 2003 12:04AM

If a dealer hung up on you because of that , than he is an idiot with incredibly poor business sense, either that or he had a terrible experience with PCGS. Either way, its moronic. Both services are excellent. As stated previously, I drink both Coke and Pepsi. I don't drink generic cola.

Conder101 · November 27, 2003 12:13AM

<< There is a large dealer in my state who had gone to only selling raw coins or coins slabbed by NGC. I asked one of their sales people about it and here is the response I received, we are tired of buying raw coins knowing what grades they are and having them come back with obvious unreasonable grades after waiting over 2 months for them. They submit hundreds of coins a month and couldn't afford to have inventory sitting around 1500 miles away for 60 plus days. >>

That is a good argument for not submitting, but not for not buying and selling a product. They could still buy and sell PCGS graded coins, just not waste their time submitting to PCGS.

<< Wow! I am stunned to hear that. Why close off such a potential customer base. While I respect NGC grading, for various reasons, I pretty much buy only PCGS coins myself also. There have been many people who have expressed the same opinions on this board. While collectors can afford to say I will only buy PCGS or NGC or whatever else, I see no good reason for a dealer to have such a bias. >>

And if we use the same logic they should also buy and sell ACG, NTC and all of the other third+ tier services too. After all why close off a potential customer base.

LouisCamp · November 27, 2003 12:29AM

Hummmmmm.......

David Hall only sells PCGS.........

Lou

airplanenut · November 27, 2003 12:50AM

As dumb as his selling tactic is... your buying tactic is worse. Buy COINS, not plastic.

MacCoin · November 27, 2003 12:54AM

you got that right APN

tgilliams · November 27, 2003 1:16AM

Only inexperienced collector's restrict their purchases to one company. When you learn a bit more about the hobby you may come to the realization that NGC and ANACS both have excellent reputations. Do your homework and then post your message again when you get some experience.

roadrunner · November 27, 2003 2:08AM

In the '87-'90 market when things were more equal, I submitted 95% of my coins to NGC. I still feel they grade more like I do with an overall look in mind. These days I'd say it's about 80-20 in favor of NGC. And those 20% going to PCGS are the coins NGC would just give the grade I expected or deserved. In every case, PCGS gave me the same grade or higher. I can only surmise that NGC has some graders on board that are not as familiar with classic coins as they are with moderns. The grading of the classics has been dumbed down a notch over the past 5 years. And it goes in both directions.

There are a number of dealers that are essentially or 100% exclusive to PCGS and no one gives them grief. I don't see why the reverse is a problem. There are plenty of worthy candidates to buy in NGC holders.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut · November 27, 2003 3:04AM

The two companies have slightly different standards - the market seems to like it at about half a point. This allows the 11 point unc/pf scale to be broken into 22 quasi-grades [which results in breaking up those huge value jumps in the upper grade range].

There's not much wrong with cherry picking nice coins in other holders. But unless you know what you are looking for in a coin so you can adequately balance price with quality, I'd stick with the most liquid holders.

gemtone65 · November 27, 2003 3:33AM

I'm not a lawyer but it strikes me that the arrangement which Sumner1984 describes between NGC and the dealer is illegal, and would be considered a violation of prohibitions against restraint of trade. In effect, NGC would be bribing the dealer not to accept business from NGC's competitors -- almost certainly illegal. I assume NGC is a law abiding company with lawyers at the ready to advise against this sort of behavior should NGC even consider such an action. Therefore, I would conclude that no such arrangement exists between dealer and NGC, and assuming the dealer said otherwise to Sumner1984, he was almost certainly lying.

paigowjohnny · November 27, 2003 3:44AM

There's another dealer, Bill Coleman (in Florida as well), who deals almost exclusively in ANACS graded coins. Just gotta find your niche.
I'd say 60-70% of my slabbed Morgans are NGC...not because I have any particular preference to the company...but I'm finding nice and (IMO) accurately graded coins at reasonable prices in NGC slabs.

Russ · November 27, 2003 3:45AM

<< I'm not a lawyer but it strikes me that the arrangement which Sumner1984 describes between NGC and the dealer is illegal, and would be considered a violation of prohibitions against restraint of trade. >>

I was thinking the same thing. There's a little software company in my area that got in to a bit of hot water for similar practices.

Russ, NCNE

BillJones · November 27, 2003 3:51AM

<< David Hall only sells PCGS......... >>

Hall owns a big hunk of the company and has more control over it than us mortals do...

wingedliberty · November 27, 2003 4:45AM

paigowjohny:

Bill Coleman is a personal friend. Just so you know, he advertises ANACS in CoinWorld, but his cases at shows are 50% PCGS and NGC.

mercurynut · November 27, 2003 6:06AM

Did he give a reason for only selling NGC coins?

DCAMFranklin · November 27, 2003 7:22AM

<< They submit hundreds of coins a month and couldn't afford to have inventory sitting around 1500 miles away for 60 plus days. At least with NGC they get consistent grades and therefore know which coins to buy and submit. Any premium they might receive for a coin graded by PCGS dissapated with the aditional overhead and inconsistent grading. >>

Yup! You can turn your inventory over 2 or 3 times in the time it take to get your material back from PCGS.

Veridicus · November 27, 2003 7:40AM

<< As dumb as his selling tactic is... your buying tactic is worse. Buy COINS, not plastic. >>

Agreed APN.

wingedliberty · November 27, 2003 8:49AM

I don't particularly subscribe to the notion of buying the coin and not the plastic. This point particularly drives home when I recently upgraded some Mercs. The PCGS and NGC examples brought considerably more than ANACS examples. This was among several local and national dealers. The reality of the marketplace is such that plastic matters as well.

South Fla. dealer goes NGC only

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