I saw it on eBay and thought the pic was fairly convincing - but then I scanned down and saw that its in a Segs holder, which I guess is the numismatic equivalent of wearing a 'kick me' sign in elementary school.
I thought it looked like it was in somebody's slab. I still think it's counterfeit. The pursing of her lips doesn't look quite right to me, and the rim cud looks funny. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!
Actually, the hair and the denticles along with the look of the surface just makes me unsettled about this coin. I'm no EAC-er, but it doesn't suit me.
<< <i>I thought it looked like it was in somebody's slab. I still think it's counterfeit. The pursing of her lips doesn't look quite right to me, and the rim cud looks funny. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!
Russ, NCNE >>
That's a dead givaway on the fakes, Miss liberty isn't supposed to be carrying a purse.
You know, the more I look at those two side-by-side, the more I think they may be the same coin. There are an awful lot of spots in exactly the same places.
Cool Russ. And I agree they are one and the same coin.
This just goes to show the value of sending something to Segs. I really did think the pic was convincing, but when i saw it was a Segs coin I just assumed it was 1) fake, 2) whizzed, or 3) just plain old crap.
This coin would almost certainly sell for more as an AU55 raw.
The first thing to catch my eye on the first example was the weak strike of the date, while the rest of the coin seemed like a pretty good strike...but when Russ put them side-by-side, the difference in the date really stands out...the Heritage example not only has a better striking on the date, but the numbers are wider and differently shaped. I don't think it's the same coin...........
Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on Earth to be young at heart? And as rich as you are, it's much better by far, to be young at heart!
<< <i>the Heritage example not only has a better striking on the date, but the numbers are wider and differently shaped. I don't think it's the same coin........... >>
That, and a couple of the other differences are easily accounted for by angle and lighting as well as the fact that one image was shot raw, while the other is in a slab. There are simply too many spots and dings in exactly the same locations. Far more is similar about the two than is different.
It's not unusual for a raw 55 or 58 copper coin from an auction to end up in a 62,3,4 or 5 holder. It happens all the time, IF, you know which 55 or 58 coins to buy. And most of the time they're in a PCGS or NGC slab.
No, no, no. It was offered by Bowers in their auction in March as an XF-45 and didn't meet reserve. Prior to that it was at Heritage as noted by Russ as a raw AU55. Prior to that it was in Sotheby's Gene Reale Auction in January 1998. Prior to that it was in New England Rare Coin Auction sale of April 1980.
Apparently the coin has some file marks on the die cuds (this according to the Bowers lot description), which may explain why it has been graded (or net graded) so differently through the years. Maybe the file marks were expertly removed before Segs slabbed it? Who knows.
This coin is an old friend -- I catalogued it for B+M as part of the last sale I helped write while on staff there. In the 19th century, filing down cuds was pretty common -- the Mint did it to medals with broken dies because cuds were thought of as a flaw in the coin/medal. This piece is like a Porsche with a big tear in the leather seat, a coin with great color and surfaces with a man-made defect. That defect keeps it out of a major service holder.
Comments
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
Edited to make it a side-by-side comparison. BTW, the Heritage coin sold raw as an AU55.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I thought it looked like it was in somebody's slab. I still think it's counterfeit. The pursing of her lips doesn't look quite right to me, and the rim cud looks funny. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!
Russ, NCNE >>
That's a dead givaway on the fakes, Miss liberty isn't supposed to be carrying a purse.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>From an AU55 to MS62!! >>
My guess would be that it had a detour to one or two more reputable grading services first.
Russ, NCNE
This just goes to show the value of sending something to Segs. I really did think the pic was convincing, but when i saw it was a Segs coin I just assumed it was 1) fake, 2) whizzed, or 3) just plain old crap.
This coin would almost certainly sell for more as an AU55 raw.
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
<< <i>the Heritage example not only has a better striking on the date, but the numbers are wider and differently shaped. I don't think it's the same coin........... >>
That, and a couple of the other differences are easily accounted for by angle and lighting as well as the fact that one image was shot raw, while the other is in a slab. There are simply too many spots and dings in exactly the same locations. Far more is similar about the two than is different.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>This coin would almost certainly sell for more as an AU55 raw. >>
It brought $8550 when Heritage sold it in February 2000.
Russ, NCNE
Obviously the same coin.
And heres how it looked when it appeared raw in Bowers and Merena's March 2003 Auction, lot 379, where it failed to meet its reserve.
What a beauty!
[/Crocodile Hunter voice]
<< <i>So Heritage sold a fake? >>
No, no, no. It was offered by Bowers in their auction in March as an XF-45 and didn't meet reserve. Prior to that it was at Heritage as noted by Russ as a raw AU55. Prior to that it was in Sotheby's Gene Reale Auction in January 1998. Prior to that it was in New England Rare Coin Auction sale of April 1980.
Apparently the coin has some file marks on the die cuds (this according to the Bowers lot description), which may explain why it has been graded (or net graded) so differently through the years. Maybe the file marks were expertly removed before Segs slabbed it? Who knows.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>Of course, I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time! >>
Russ, NCNE
This coin is an old friend -- I catalogued it for B+M as part of the last sale I helped write while on staff there. In the 19th century, filing down cuds was pretty common -- the Mint did it to medals with broken dies because cuds were thought of as a flaw in the coin/medal. This piece is like a Porsche with a big tear in the leather seat, a coin with great color and surfaces with a man-made defect. That defect keeps it out of a major service holder.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana