1889-CC or not 1889-CC? A copy as real thing...

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 7:22AM

OK. Help me out here. This 1889-CC "100 mil" is at $280.00. No mention of copy in the ad and it is showing an obverse and reverse with NO indication of copy. This is not a Private Auction. Do I kindly tell the seller of his/her errant ways, (new at selling), or contact the bidders. How does one word a message to the bidders without risking "interference in selling" from Ebay?

Thank you all for righting a wrong yesterday (GSA thread). Please help again today.

Thanks.

Larry

Link to AD

<< <i>"Hope I die before I get old... The Who >>

dollardude · November 19, 2003 7:25AM

You can submit a fraud complaint to eBay. I've done this before, but it usually doesn't accomplish much, as eBay doesn't seem to care much about complaints.

My guess is, that if you do this in this particular instance, eBay won't do anything, as the seller has weasle-worded this item. Another thing you might consider is that the Hobby Protection Act requires the word "COPY" to be placed somewhere clearly on a replica item. I don't see it here, but, again, this seller has weasled himself out of this by putting on a picture that is just fuzzy enough not to be able to tell the difference.

ccrdragon · November 19, 2003 7:35AM

It doesn't have to have copy on it as the reverse is different from the standard Morgan reverse (so it is not a 'copy' of the real thing or of any coin produced by the US Mint).

There is no way that you can send a message to the bidders w/o the seller claiming interferance. The best that you could do would be to create a dummy id (that you don't mind losing) and contact the bidders from that dummy id.

coinguy1 · November 19, 2003 7:40AM

Below is a link for reporting it, if you care to - click on "Report listing violations or problems with another eBay member", then, enter the item number and your comments:

Link

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 7:41AM

Under the hobby protection act of 1973, Copy must appear somewhere. Where is it?

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 7:42AM

Coinguy:

I already went to that link. Thank you.

dollardude · November 19, 2003 7:42AM

I would not do the dummy ID thing. You can get into trouble doing this. Unfortunately, the way eBay operates, and the way this seller has his ad worded, I don't think you can do much about it.

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 7:43AM

So again, Caveat Emptor.

ccrdragon · November 19, 2003 7:54AM

It only has to have the word COPY if it is a reproduction of an existing coin or bill. Since this one does not say '1 Dollar' on the reverse, it is not a copy and therefor does not fall under the hobby protection act.

billboat · November 19, 2003 8:01AM

I reported it to Ebay.

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 8:06AM

It is a copy of an 1889-CC Morgan Proof. Regardless if it does not say one dollar on the reverse does not negate the fact that it shows 1889 on the obverse and "CC" on the reverse.

Royal OAK Mint makes an EXACT replica of this and it says "Copy" on one wing. That complies with the act.

NCM makes one and there is NO "one dollar" on the bottom of the reverse but there's a serial # and copy. Are you saying they don't need one?

That still brings up the question, who is the manufacture of this proof? If it's not the "REAL" thing, is it not by definition a copy?

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 8:07AM

Thanks for reporting it.

PhillyJoe · November 19, 2003 8:28AM

I think this is the proverbial hot potato in the ebay coin world. A newbie gets duped into buying a slug when they were actually grabbing for the golden ring. Once they realize they have been fooled, they list it for another sucker. Part of me thinks there are only a handful of these around but they get listed by the "new" owner every week.Most bidders of these, naturally, are relatively new to ebay or coin collecting or both. Can't these people just go to the slug website and buy all they want for $20 each?

Joe

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 8:42AM

Whether it's a slug or not, IF WE ALL KNEW WHERE THE GOODIES WERE CHEAP, there would be no need for Ebay. I don't see anyone out here volunteering where they just landed a hoard of...

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 9:28AM

Emailed Seller:

Sadly she bought this item thinking it was real.

She now plans to end the auction.

abuell · November 19, 2003 9:43AM

<< <i>Emailed Seller:

Sadly she bought this item thinking it was real.
She now plans to end the auction. >>

Don't be too sad - if you believe that I've got a great bridge that
I'll sell you!

linko

stujoe · November 19, 2003 10:37AM

Two years ago, there was a discussion about these things on rcc. The ad that the company (National Collector's Mint) showed in the newspaper advertisement did not have 'Copy' on the reverse. The replica that the person received when they responded did have Copy on it:

I posted about it here with links to the thread with the pictures of both the advertisement and the actual item that the person received:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=236480

My assumption is that things haven't changed much.

Russ · November 19, 2003 10:54AM

Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

<< <i>To: sales@compucheap.com
From: debraseger@mn.rr.com
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #2204881420
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:44:42 PST

Why does your listing say this coin is a peice of JUNK?????
Debra
--------------------

Question from: debraseger
Title of item: MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR 1889-CC PROOF!!!
Seller: compucheap
Starts: Nov-19-03 16:32:46 PST
Ends: Nov-29-03 16:32:46 PST
Price: Starts at $1.00
To view the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2204881420

Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com >>

Man, it didn't take this chick long. I just put up the listing about an hour ago!

Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Russ, NCNE

uofa1285 · November 19, 2003 12:03PM

You go Russ!

Vigilante justice!

Doug

razorface1027 · November 19, 2003 12:08PM

I'm re-mortgaging my house right now to purchase this beauty...

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 12:13PM

You guys are brutal!

Here is the e-mail Debra sent me after ending her auction:

Larry, thank you for letting me know... I would much rather have found out from you then an angry buyer. And thanks for the info below on how to end the auction early. I bought the coin through Yahoo Auctions.... I will have to investigate concerning what actions I can take on this matter.
Thank you so much again for warning me. I don't want to be known on Ebay as a dishonest seller. I am quite new at selling and I have really been enjoying the whole experience...(we'll most of it anyway! )
Debra

So now she knows what she owns. None of her other listings are coin related.

XpipedreamR · November 19, 2003 12:19PM

I'll admit I didn't carefully read all of the messages in this thread, but how can this seller claim not to know what she had and what she was doing? The way she has the listing worded is the classic line of BS for this type of item.

Ljr1964 · November 19, 2003 12:31PM

My experience with women and coins? Sounding sexist, they just don't get it. She could look at the back of the "copy" and still not comprehend it's a copy. Since she's possibly never seen another Morgan, she does not know that the word Copy and a serial # are NOT standard issue on a real Morgan. As soon as I pointed it out, she cancelled her auction.

I have learned to never underestimate what people don't know or understand. As I have stated previously, I market and sell copies of Rare Morgans, Eagles and Peace Dollars on Ebay. Copy, Repro etc... are in the ad. I still receive e-mail asking if it's real.

"I know it says copy, but is it a real copy?"

1889-CC or not 1889-CC? A copy as real thing...

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