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Bad eBay Experience -- Watch Out for This Guy -- PM Me for His eBay Handle

StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am posting this as a community service to my fellow Forum Members to advise you of a disingenuous eBay seller whom I suggest that you stay away from. You can tell from his handle that his main business is not coins.

I had sent numerous e-mails to this guy to directly negotiate a deal on an 1884-S NGC AU-58 that is a premium original coin. The first warning sign was that he did not communicate effectively on e-mail and only infrequently. His notes were very choppy one sentence responses, when the situation would have warranted more information.

When I challenged him by saying that he was very difficult to communicate with, he said that he's a very busy heavy equipment operator, and that he works off site alot.

After sealing the deal on e-mail (he confirmed this in writing) and after mailing him my check for over $700 for the coin, I did not hear back from him -- second warning sign. After about 10 days I e-mailed to ask if he had received my check and if he had shipped the coin, he told me that he never received my check, and assumed that I had changed my mind about the coin, so he sold it to another buyer for more money.

I replied that I was extremely disappointed and very upset about having been treated this way, and asked why (after my numerous e-mails to maintain contact with him) he did not at least e-mail me to ask about the check.

Here are his two brief replies to let me know that he sold the coin out from under me:

Stuart,
I never recieved your Money Order for the coin. I sold the 1901 Dollar for 600.00 last week. I know we agreed on a 710.00 price, but when I was offered 780.00 for the coin and you never paid me , I sold the 84-S also. I figured you changed your mind on the 84-S.

Cheers, Jim


I get about 4-5 Non Paying bidders a Month. I also sell about 60 itmes a month, I also work 3 jobs and have little time to track down payments. Jim



If you send me a private message, I'll disclose his eBay handle to you, and if enough of you suggest that I make it public, I'll consider appending it to this thread.

I have been very fortunate to have had numerous excellent transactions with some very nice responsible, honorable and reputable coin people on eBay. This guy is the rotten apple that can spoil the entire experience -- and I'd love to encourage all of you to avoid him like the plague so that he knows he can't treat people this way and get away with it.

I'll look forward to your posts in reply to this thread. Thanks!

Stuart

Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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Comments

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Did you send a money order or a check? That's a little confusing in the description. If check, has it cleared your bank? If MO, any way to trace and see if it's cleared?

    Russ, NCNE
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Russ: I sent a personal check, and I'm going to call my bank to confirm that it has not cleared and stop payment on it.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    Name that critter, Please.....Ken
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Sucks but you went outside eBay so you took a risk.
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I sent a personal check, and I'm going to call my bank to confirm that it has not cleared and stop payment on it. >>



    Good. At least you're covered in that area. Does your bank have automated service, either on-line or by phone? If so, I'd be handling that right now.

    Russ, NCNE
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    Come on, namedropping is good!
    Just My 2 Cents,
    Big Mike <><

    Let your roots grow down into him and draw up nourishment from him, so you will grow in faith, strong and vigorous in the truth you were taught. Let your lives overflow with thanksgiving for all that he has done. --Colossians 2:7
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    Were you the top bidder or did you try to buy the coin by him stopping the auction? There is a BIG difference.

    If you were the top bidder, then he is an a$$hole, and you should post his name publically and also complain to SafeHarbor, because they will either warn him, or suspend him.

    If you negotiated OUTSIDE of the eBay auction, for him to stop the auction to try to buy the coin, then you have NO right to be mad. If you went outside eBay, what about all the people that might have bid on it? By negotiating outside eBay you prevented many others from legitimately bidding on the auction... Should those potential bidders be given your name so they can spread it around and bad mouth you? You cut out a lot of folks who unknowingly had the auction stopped, and those people might have been last minute bidders.

    You dont have any proof that he actually received or didnt receive your money. You should have had a way to track it if you were concerned. By putting it up for auction he probably wanted all he could get for it. You cant fault someone for trying to make money. EVERYONE in this message board trys their best to make money.

    michelle
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If you negotiated OUTSIDE of the eBay auction, for him to stop the auction to try to buy the coin, then you have NO right to be mad. If you went outside eBay, what about all the people that might have bid on it? By negotiating outside eBay you prevented many others from legitimately bidding on the auction... >>



    Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense. Regardless of how the purchase was consumnated, he has a right to receive a product he paid for. If he doesn't, he has a legtimate beef.

    As for others who don't get the chance to bid on an item because that item was sold before auction close - boo hoo, cry me a river.

    Russ, NCNE
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    Russ,

    The tenor of your post, towards Michelle was mean spirited and a bit cavalier as well as unfair toward her personally. From what I got out of your post, was, win at all costs, even if you have to cheatto become the winner.

    What ever happened to integrity in this world?

    Bulldog
    Proud to have fought for America, and to be an AMERICAN!

    No good deed will go unpunished.

    Free Money Search
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michelle: After the auction ended, and the coin did not receive any bids at his high asking price, I directly negotiated a deal with him.

    I was therefore not asking him to end an auction to cut a deal outside of eBay.


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The tenor of your post, towards Michelle was mean spirited and a bit cavalier as well as unfair toward her personally. >>



    Which was precisely the same tenor as her post toward Stuart. Read it. To assert that he has no right to complain about potentially getting ripped off and blaming him rather than the potential thief is just ludicrous.



    << <i>From what I got out of your post, was, win at all costs, even if you have to cheatto become the winner. >>



    There is nothing "cheating" about doing a deal through an early auction close. Frankly, the more people who believe that, the better for those of us who understand it.

    Russ, NCNE
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    Stuart;
    Welp, the reason this happened is because you weren't dealing with the razor...image. Please send me a email with disclosure...I'd appreciate it. Glad your happy with the 84-S I sold you...image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Solicitation of an Offsite Sale

    eBay Policy
    Soliciting off-site sales is a form of fee avoidance that circumvents the eBay fee structure. It is strictly prohibited.


    Examples:
    The following activities using member contact information obtained through eBay are not allowed:
    Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to offer to sell any listed item outside of eBay. However, it is acceptable for a buyer to email the seller and ask to end the item early at an agreed upon winning price.
    Offering to sell any listed item outside of eBay
    Canceling a listing to sell the item to anyone who contacted the seller through eBay or became aware of the item through eBay
    Ending a listing early to sell the item at a higher price to the winning bidder
    Offering to sell an item outside of eBay to any of your bidders in a Reserve Not Met listing.
    Offering to sell duplicate or additional merchandise outside of eBay to underbidders



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    I'd appreciate your posting the name.
    Alpha Mike Foxtrot
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Razor: I really do like the Semi-PL 1884-S Morgan Dollar in PCGS- AU-53 that I purchased from you.
    Thanks again for the righteous deal and the choice coin!

    Believe it or not, just yesterday I received another beautiful ANACS AU-55 1884-S that was purchased from eBay for less than $210. It's a beautiful lustrous white (not gray) 1884-S with just a light hint of wear and 95%+ mint luster. I subscribe to MadMarty's AU-58 strategy.

    I actually think my favorite CC-Morgan grade is MS-64 PL. By selecting MS-64 I avaoid the MS-65 premium, and by picking PL I avoid the DMPL premium. It's an economically attractive grade in this hot Morgan market.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Placid,

    All of those rules apply to a seller soliciting sales outside of eBay using eBay as the platforrm to do so. If a buyer contacts a seller, that seller has not solicited anything.

    Russ, NCNE
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Thats what eBay has listed for the buyers rules.
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Thats what eBay has listed for the buyers rules. >>



    That doesn't make any sense. Every sentence refers to selling, not buying.

    Russ, NCNE
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Ebay Policys Look under rules for buyers.
    It dosen't make alot of sence but its there.
    Really dosen't matter but going out side of eBay to do a deal you lose the little saftey eBay provides.
    Can't even leave a neg feedback.
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    << <i><< The tenor of your post, towards Michelle was mean spirited and a bit cavalier as well as unfair toward her personally. >>

    Which was precisely the same tenor as her post toward Stuart. Read it. To assert that he has no right to complain about potentially getting ripped off and blaming him rather than the potential thief is just ludicrous. >>



    There was no "tenor" in my post. I gave my opinion towards 2 situations. I dont know Stuart, and he posted his message looking for a response. He didnt say to only post nice responses praising him. If you read my post clearly, I gave my 2 opinions because Stuart didn't say that the sellers auction ended without any bidders. My post was based on 2 fictional situations.



    << <i>There is nothing "cheating" about doing a deal through an early auction close. Frankly, the more people who believe that, the better for those of us who understand it. >>



    Actually there is something wrong with it, and besides that it's against eBay rules. If you're reported for doing that enough times, you will be suspended from eBay whether you're a seller or a buyer. If you think eBay doesn't read those messages you send to sellers saying "hey wanna end this auction now and sell this for 100$", just keep doing it. Just because you have not gotten in trouble, doesnt make it right.

    However I still don't see how Stuart can be mad about

    << <i>potentially getting ripped off >>

    as Russ stated. You are either ripped off or your not. Stuart did not say that the guy cashed his check and didn't send the coin... he said that the guy stated he DID NOT receive his check. So, stop payment on the check, bid on another coin, and move on.

    There have been plenty of people who "sent me payment" I never received. Who knows if they sent it or not.

    That's the messed up thing about typing instead of talking. People read too much into it. Life is very cut and dry if you let it be.

    michelle
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    I'll be damned, they pasted the seller's rules in to the buyer's rules. I guess thay didn't feel like writing something that actually makes sense for buyers. Gee, I guess I'm going to have to stop getting sellers to close early to eliminate the competition from Don and Marty. image

    Russ, NCNE
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michelle: I was posting this as a service to others on the forum who may wish to avoid this guy.

    He is at best very disorganized and inept, and at worst he's dishonest.

    I have received many supportive notes from fellow forum members requesting his ID, which I will gladly provide.

    I happen to disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion. Thanks for your posts.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    However, it is acceptable for a buyer to email the seller and ask to end the item early at an agreed upon winning price.

    Your fine Russ.
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    From Placid's post:

    << <i> However, it is acceptable for a buyer to email the seller and ask to end the item early at an agreed upon winning price. >>


    Alpha Mike Foxtrot
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Michelle,

    The crystal clear inference in your response was that "if" he did get taken, and he did the deal outside of eBay, it's his own fault. I just don't abide the blame the victim attitude that is so prevalent today.

    Russ, NCNE
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    People read too much into it. Life is very cut and dry if you let it be.

    Well stated Michelle!...image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    Michelle: I was posting this as a service to others on the forum who may wish to avoid this guy.

    You've extended a fine service indeed Stuart...Thank you. image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michelle: Don't you think that the seller should have at least had the courtesy to try and e-mail me to inform me that he did not receive my check (after I told him I had sent it) to give me a chance to re-send the check before he abrogated our deal, and sold the coin to someone else?

    I had e-mailed him numerous times just to get his mailing address...

    After all, I trusted him enough to send him my check with nothing to show for it. He could have trusted me enough to ask me where the check was, while he still held the coin and had not taken any financial risk, as I did.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's the latest e-mail that I received from the subject of this thread. You can draw your own conclusions about him...... I have left his name out to be as fair as possible -- but he's about to cross the line.

    Stuart,
    Listen you little B------d, You never sent payment. It was a NON Ebay transaction, and you are a Un-scrupulous little piss head. Get a life a$$hole. I just came home from Afganistan a few months ago, to protect and serve this Great nation. so YOU can sit on the couch and cram Bagles up your fat ass ..... You approached me for the deal. We agreed and check was NEVER recieved. I'll write to the proper folks at CU if you continue this BS.


    Jim ________
    SFC, Det SGT.
    1/20TH Special Forces (Airborne)

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    wow, interesting email Stuart - does he read these threads?


    As a clarification, he might have been in Afganistan - but probably not to save our great country - just because it was his job ( for great pay/benefits) - if everyone worked for the government, there would be no one to make the money to pay for the government employees
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stuart, you have always seemed to be a nice guy, but in all fairness you've only showed a couple of HIS emails. Also, you can get all the support on here you care to, but what about the check? Did you find out if it cleared? I would be spending my energy on that. Not really fair to fry the guy without knowing for sure if he cashed the check or not. JMO
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    STMan: As of my last bank statement the check had not cleared. And I assume that he is not a dishonest man who would cash the check.

    I believe him at his word that he has not received my check, and that it was either lost or delayed in the mail.

    The problem I have is that he did not even try to contact me to let me know that the check had not arrived before abrogating our deal and selling the coin to someone else.

    Look - I'm not bitter. I just received an AU-55 for way less money. I honestly feel that I have been mistreated. If he would have at least said -- sorry for the misunderstading instead of attacking me I'd feel that he's an upright and OK guy.

    I'm willing to let it drop and to move as Michelle says. It's not worth pursuing any further.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    I thought Stuart's main reason for posting was to make those aware of this fellow's antics, both at ebay and off ebay....As stated in the initial thread, "WATCH OUT FOR THIS GUY!" I would, would you?...image I'm sure Stuart's intellegent enough to have stopped payment some time ago on this check. The fellow got his(Stuart's) hopes high and F**KED him. It's that simple! Now he's making, correct me if I'm wrong, the honest folks at this forum aware of this character's selling CHARACTER. Which isimage from what I can detect. JMO...image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    Stuart,

    This guy is blowing smoke. Best thing that you cn do is protect your resources and let this thing die. The coin is gone, Hope that your funds are not.

    Bulldog
    Proud to have fought for America, and to be an AMERICAN!

    No good deed will go unpunished.

    Free Money Search
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BullDog: I agree. I've spoken my piece. Thanks for the support from the other Forum Members.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    orevilleoreville Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stuart: He IS getting less pithy!

    Look at the good you do!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stuart, I understand and wasn't siding one way or the other. Just thought it more important to focus on your funds as a couple others have pointed out. Hope it works out OK for you.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    as long as the check does not get cashed - maybe he did him a favor

    possibly the AU58 is dog ugly with a weak strike and the 55 he got is a better eye appeal coin - probably would be tuff getting a refind from this guy - in a timely fashion




    does anyone know if you can work the military + 2 more jobs? or would this be a reserve type guy who got called up?
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    dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭
    After a little background work, he was serving his country and buy and selling on ebay frequently the last nine months.

    The warning should be to not say anything negative about this guy. The few who were brave enough to leave negative feedback received harsh replays.

    I will think twice before leaving negative comments, not worth it if he gets a free shot.

    We should be able to express our opinion and let the reader intelligently determine they own without having a backlash.

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    I don't care if it is in the Ebay forum, or outside of Ebay. If you
    agree on a sale, then it is improper to cancel the sale without
    an attempt to contact the buyer.

    I also like how he seems to think that his being in the military
    gives him a right to sound off at other people. If he actually
    believes in a proper code of conduct, then he has no business
    in sending emails like that no matter what the circumstances.

    (And being on the LCDR list for the US Navy gives me the right to
    criticize someone for poor judgement in using their military position)
    Robert Getty - Lifetime project to complete the finest collection of 1872 dated coins.
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    LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    Honey, next time buy from the HepKitty! You'll get top notch service!
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
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    MacCoinMacCoin Posts: 2,544 ✭✭
    thta sucks
    image


    I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.

    Always looking for nice type coins

    my local dealer
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    GaCoinGuyGaCoinGuy Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭✭
    I say out the fool on here publicly. If he indeed was over in Afganistan, how did he have time to buy and sell on EBay all this time?
    imageimage

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    Stuart I agree with you . You had a done deal and he should have contacted you before selling the coin out from under you.
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    I'm the seller to Stuart of the coin he NEVER paid for. I sell around 10-15 K a month on Ebay and get ALOT of promises. If I had recieved his check (which I didn't) and taken a 75.00 loss, then so be it. I waited over a week for a check and then sold to the highest bidder. Still no check.
    I got bashed around on here by Stuart and his croonies, BEFORE he checked with the bank, By the way, He has informed me that the check NEVER cleared as of a week ago.
    I've sold over 600 items on Ebay with just a few Non-paying bidder Neg. feedbacks.

    P.S. My wife has been kind enough to help my business while I was away in Afganistan. `Heading back in March 04. 49 Years old and still AIRBORNE !!!! Looking for the Mustard stain!!!
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Use paypal image
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    Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yankee - When you never received the check (within a specific period of time) did you ever even consider sending Stuart an email? Or did you just ASSume he was like all the other buyers who break promises?

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
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    << <i> I got bashed around on here by Stuart and his croonies, >>



    Hmmm. I really have no idea how any of our singing voices sound, I think I'll pass on that one just the same.

    I believe you meant cronies. I don't know Stuart so I'm hardly a crony. It seems to me that email communication was lacking from your end.

    While we all appreciate your service to our country, you aren't the only one to have made such sacrifices and it doesn't really have any bearing on the issue at hand. To attempt to use it as such is lame. This forum is no place for victim mentality.

    Stuart didn't out you on the forum as far as your eBay account name.

    Putting a stop on a check and Fed-Exing a new one overnight is a fairly simple matter and it seems to me that regular email could have alleviated this entire matter quickly and resolutely.

    Just my .02
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
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    Stu--At this point if the check cleared, you have a problem, if not, I'd leave it alone and move on. If it cleared, then you have a potential problem. The hype of the mid east deployment, plays on reasonable people. AND it does now, but it doesn't play on righteousness. I wouldn't want to pursue this, just make sure your check didn't clear. Be mindful he is serving our country and would not EVER MESS with another AMERICAN.
    Its a foul ball by a fair margin.
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JPumper: I dropped the issue on Nov 9th (check the posting dates on this thread).

    YankeeCamera has rejuvenated it by bringing it back up to post his perspective on the subject.

    As far as I'm concerned this is over, and I am moving on to bigger and more important things.

    I have already suggested to him via several private e-mails that we both stop wasting any more of our time on this dead issue.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"

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