I guess it takes all kinds to make this world go around

jbsteven · November 8, 2003 7:49AM

This is one that just makes me wonder about people in general.

I sold a $90 coin on Ebay and the buyer contacted me and said it bothered him that the hologram was missing on the reverse of the NGC slab (came off from many dealer stickers on it and it is a old NGC holder). He asked me if I wanted to pay for the cost to have it reslabbed. I told him that it was his decision and cost to have it reslabbed. He is now sending it back for a refund.

He stated I should now in all of my auctions disclose if the hologram is missing because and I quote "because I *know* others feel the same as I do".

Does the hologram really mean that much to YOU?

LucyBop · November 8, 2003 7:50AM

hey.. you did the same to me, i'm sending em all back! scammer!

goose3 · November 8, 2003 7:51AM

that's pretty lame.
I wouldn't pay for it either.

Maybe he is related to that guy that people have posted here about that writes and says the slab is damaged and wants some money for reholdering.

ms70 · November 8, 2003 7:52AM

I think I'd only be concerned if it was totally missing with no evidence of it ever being there. I have plenty of holders with the
hologram partially missing.

Russ · November 8, 2003 7:55AM

<< <i>He stated I should now in all of my auctions disclose if the hologram is missing because and I quote "because I *know* others feel the same as I do". >>

In any auction I run where there is any form of damage to the slab, including those with the hologram scraped off, I make note of it. I've never had one returned.

Sorry, but this bidder is right.

Russ, NCNE

mercurynut · November 8, 2003 7:56AM

It means zippo to me. Your buyer is just a looser!

FatMan · November 8, 2003 7:56AM

Remember.......Always buy the slab, not the coin.

ColonialCoinUnion · November 8, 2003 8:01AM

I'd be as annoyed as you are - but on the other hand I can't blame someone for being very, very careful when buying on Ebay.

relayer · November 8, 2003 8:03AM

I've gotten two requests from the same guy to pay for re-slabbing fees. I paid for the first one but told him no the second time.

I recently saw a seller stating that "people have been asking for pristene slabs without scratches. A lot of slabs do have scratches or impurfections so you may receive a slab that is not perfect"

I guess it's buy the slab and not the coin

BAJJERFAN · November 8, 2003 8:04AM

Wha a lame-A$$ excuse.

Placid · November 8, 2003 8:09AM

Dog97 · November 8, 2003 8:10AM

Lots of my slabs have damaged holagrams (from dumbass dealer stickers) and it never bother me.

dragon · November 8, 2003 8:11AM

It's actually unusual to find the older NGC holders with the long decals that do have the decals completely intact, most have at least been partially removed.

dragon

stman · November 8, 2003 8:12AM

Just send him a sticker that says "Hologram" on it.

When I was a kid my Dad bought me some sneakers. I said I didn't like those and wanted the 'Keds" brand.

He took a piece of tape, stuck it on the back of the shoe and wrote 'Keds" on it. I sure miss my Father.

LucyBop · November 8, 2003 8:19AM

<< <i>(from dumbass dealer stickers) >>

Iccky Ooooeey Goooooey Yuckie Yuck Sticky Uckie slimey stuff!

XpipedreamR · November 8, 2003 8:23AM

Well, I wouldn't return a coin because of it, nor would I not purchase a coin I liked because of it. But I do think it looks crappy and have gotten one coin reholdered because of it. I figure, if the coin going to be in a slab, it might as well be in a nice, neat slab that looks like all the other ones in my collection. I also polish the scratches off slabs, although this is for more of a practical or functional purpose.

I guess I'm just anal, oh well!

Draco · November 8, 2003 8:23AM

At one time, those kind of things were meant to give a sense of authenticity to a buyer, but holographic stickers can be printed up fairly easily now and I don't see their value anymore. Maybe this guy just doesn't realize this. It's my personal believe that they are still used by some companies for their "cool factor."

ksteelheader · November 8, 2003 8:34AM

You were exactly right. It takes all kinds. Tell him to sit on a hot iron!!!.............Ken

stman · November 8, 2003 8:39AM

Actually with all the talk and hype of which holder brings more money, and which holder toned or white coins look better in, and 'For sale PCGC or NGC coins" People really think the company makes the coins so I don't blame the guy. (wink)

fcloud · November 8, 2003 8:48AM

Now that's funny. Who cares if the slabs have the hologram missing or scratches or whatever, as long as it is intact.

fountainheadgold · November 8, 2003 8:54AM

I have people ask me to exactly descibe the condition of the slab????
Apparently some people really care about the slab

wingedliberty · November 8, 2003 9:03AM

You crook!, You sold me one that had 10% of the hologram missing. I am reporting you to Ebay and to
the ANA.

.

Seriously, You're right , it does take all kinds, especially since you sell exceptional one of a kind coins with tremendous eye appeal/toning, one would think that quality would be the motivation for buying one of your coins, but if someone wants a hologram that bad, I really feel like there is nothing you can do to satisfy them. Like you said it takes all kinds.

uofa1285 · November 8, 2003 9:39AM

Unreal.

Please share this person's handle so I (we) can blacklist.

Doug

dizzlecc · November 8, 2003 3:15PM

His loss. I guess he would never buy a coin in the PCGS first generation holders (rattlers), they do not have holograms.

Some people like to make life difficult. That was funny that he asked you to pay to have it reslabbed. Do you offer gift wrapping?

airplanenut · November 8, 2003 3:31PM

<< <i>especially since you sell exceptional one of a kind coins with tremendous eye appeal/toning, >>

Read: JB's stock is covered in tarnish

I agree with Brain... and Russ

I personally wouldn't really care, and I have enough gunked up slabs as it is... on the other hand, everyone's gotta be obsessive about something, and I guess we found this guy's weakness... Why not rip of the hologram from a different slab and mail it to him?

Jeremy

coinlieutenant · November 8, 2003 3:47PM

Sorry JB,

I wouldnt give a rats *ss but these are the dangers of ebay....

John

Bochiman · November 8, 2003 4:25PM

JB,
If I were a purchaser of a slabbed coin (esp one that was probably very exceptional looking, like a lot of coins that you have/sell) and it was probably an expensive coin as well, then, I would want to have a good slab (ie...one I felt was authentic (not a chance of it being cracked out and resealed (I have read people saying it could probably be done, I don't know, but technology does make a lot fo things possible)) and with all the markings, especially if I were thinking of reselling it in the future.

Maybe the customer anticipates problems reselling it to others without the hologram?

In your auction/sale, did you show pics of the slab as well? Was the missing hologram noticeable?
Maybe as things like this happen, dealers will be more careful where they put their stickers.....

Do you anticipate problems in reselling the coin? If not, his return shouldn't be much more than an inconvenience. If so, depending on profit, then reslabbing may be an option...maybe a 50/50 split on it. I don't know.

I buy a coin, but if it is slabbed, I also count that into my thoughts/equation on the purchase as well.

Everyone is different and what one may think is trivial may be important to someone else. When you sell an item, especially if you don't show 100% of the item in pics (in person otherwise), or recognize missing/added things that others may have issues with, then things like this happen.

You can do the auctions the way you want, but I would suggest following Russ's lead and list anything about the slab as well. Remember, you ARE selling the slab as well as the coin. You can get more for a slabbed coin, in many instances, than you can for the same coin raw. That is why so many posters here send in coins for slabbing (it isn't for preservation of the coin as much as it is for confirmation of grade and saleability).

If you were a pure collector, and only sold a few coins from your collection as you needed, or as you upgraded, then I would understand more why you would be reluctant, but, I believe you are a dealer (and, from many posts I have seen, a very good and knowledgeable one), and as such, you should accept that the increase in saleability that the slab gives means you are selling the slab as well.

Side note......I have enjoyed JB's posts, his knowledge, his coins, etc.....and I am sure many others have as well. I understand that many like him here. That's cool. But, just because he is having problems concerning the hologram on a slab, the mob mentality wants to blacklist the purchaser????

Tell me, why is the purchaser in the wrong on this????
Why can't he want a slabbed coin that is like it was originally done (I accept that most slabs will have minor scratches....my 2 dozen do, and I accept that) with hologram ?
It wasn't noted in the auction was it?

I liken this to someone who is anal retentive (like wanting all PCGS slabbed coins and not accepting anything else

).....it is THEIR choice on what they like. Maybe all his other slabs have the hologram on them and this one would stick out like a sore thumb when he shows them of or looks at them? Could be more than a few things.

But, I will stop rambling now and just some it up:
1) JB...you sell/have great coins (most out of my price range from what I have seen
2) JB is very knowledgeable and shares that knowledge here and I would have 0 problems buying from him and trusting him on his grade valuation and coin descriptions (accurate without a ton of hype)
3) JB seems to acknowledge the hologram was missing from the coin when sent
4) The buyer received the coin/slab and it wasn't as pristine as he wanted/thought and asked for financial remedy (reslabbing fees) to keep the coin at the agreed/paid price.
5) JB said no and the buyer wants to return the coin for a refund (could have been handled by reslab fee)
6) Many people on the forum have a mob mentality and don't try to understand other peoples' points of view (in this case, the guy doesn't sound too unreasonable to me, he tried to get problem corrected (good communication), and everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the "buy the slab"/"buy the coin" and what to expect of each.
7) I hope this doesn't sound like a rant against JB at all....his post seemed curious/questioning, not accusatory of the buyer nor slamming on him....it was just other people's posts that created the negative dogpiling.

jbsteven · November 8, 2003 10:44PM

Boch

good post.

One reason why I have a 5 day no questions asked return period is for the customer to be happy. In the grand scheme of things it is no big deal. The coin is a $90 coin and I have someone else that said they wanted it in 2 weeks if it did not sell when they saw it 2-3 weeks ago.

I did not feel like giving away the profit I made on this coin $15-$20 for a reslab. I did not want to pay for the reslab just on the principle of me having to pay for the reslab (I could have done that when I bought it).

edited to add

Thanks for the compliments

IrishMike · November 8, 2003 10:59PM

Bochiman, let me dogpile a little bit

. When JB listed the coin he had no way of knowing that the missing hologram was a problem only the eventual buyer did. If it means this much to this buyer he should have emailed the seller and asked about it. What is so difficult to understand, that if a hologram is so important then email the seller and find out if its there. Both of them now have spent money on this deal when this could have been avoided with a polite email. Every auction includes the phrase, email the seller if you have any questions.

This isn't dog piling its common sense. JB please PM me with the buyer's ID so I can blackball him/her from my auctions.

elwood · November 8, 2003 11:17PM

You gotta be kidding me. Do people really care about that kind of crap. I thought we were collecting coins??? As long as there aren't scratches hiding the coin, Who Cares!!!

jbsteven · November 8, 2003 11:27PM

the coin in question. it has some of the brightest blue I have seen on a washington

LucyBop · November 8, 2003 11:30PM

ah, to top it off, you sold him a AT coin!

the Nerve!

darktone · November 8, 2003 11:49PM

It would not bother me about the hologram(I just bought a pcgs coin for $3,000 that was missing) but I guess a new collector might be worried it's fake. Oh well no real harm done as you offer a return. mike

MacCoin · November 9, 2003 12:02AM

when it says NGC you're selling the slab too. he wasn't happy with it. give him his money back and forget it.

Baley · November 9, 2003 2:14AM

the buyer has strange priorities, if he's returning that coin based on the condition of the hologram on the slab.

Conder101 · November 9, 2003 2:33AM

Yes it does disturb me when the hologram is damaged. I wouldn't ask if for the seller to have it reholdered but Iwould be disappointed in the seller for not mentioning it. Of course in my case I AM buying the holder so I want it to be a nice as possible. As was mentioned earlier, the full width holograms on the early NGC slabs were much more delicate than todays and it can be difficult to find specimens that don't have holograms that have been ripped up by dealer labels. (For that reason when I was bulding the NC portion of my collection I would email sellers to make sure the hologram was undamaged for the full width types if it wasn't visible in the pictures. I have passed on slabs that I needed because of damaged holograms and in cases where I have gotten them I have always tried to replace them when undamaged slabs became available.

XpipedreamR · November 9, 2003 2:41AM

I don't think I'd have a problem with a cruddy hologram or a little goo on the slab for that coin!

rainbowroosie · November 9, 2003 2:51AM

Amazingly, I bought most of my very best coins years ago BEFORE slabs existed,,,,I am going to hunt down everyone who sold me these coins and insist THEY pay to have them slabbed with flawless holograms prominently and proudly displayed on the plastic...I'm sure that will make all my MS 68 coins in to MS 69 coins....This guy is an idiot!!! Block him from your auctions and send him an email telling him why...feel free to copy my text in to your email to the stooge.

uofa1285 · November 9, 2003 7:48AM

This is a fantastic example of why our laws and courts rely so greatly on the term "reasonable". Clearly, the buyer did not have a reasonable argument in returning the coin.

Doug

Dog97 · November 9, 2003 10:36AM

<<<Lots of my slabs have damaged holagrams (from dumbass dealer stickers) and it never bother me.>>>

Well maybe I want to change my mind. From now on if a seller doesn't describe any marks or damage on the plastic then I'm going to slam his ass!! If any of you guys ever sell me a used slab I'm gonna neg you to hell & back and put a curse on you that all you children be born naked. Imagine the nerve of this weasel for not having a coin reholdered before eBaying it.

LAWMAN · November 10, 2003 8:59AM

The hologram only matters when it is a life size Pamela Anderson 3D hologram.

I guess it takes all kinds to make this world go around

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