What makes a 70 ?

Rob85635 · November 6, 2003 11:02PM

I have various MS / PR 69 coins. I was looking real close at one and could not find a single thing that would keep it from being a 70. How do they determine a 69 from a 70?

Rob

Dennis88 · November 6, 2003 11:08PM

You need a microscope to see the difference. On a ms/pr 69 there may be some little things on the coin wich you only can see under a microscope. a ms/pr 70 has even under strong magnification no marks.

Dennis

jjroll · November 6, 2003 11:15PM

Depends on whether or not the grader is in a good mood or not.

pontiacinf · November 6, 2003 11:17PM

do you really believe they whip out a scope...dont think so

its if they feel...the cameos on statehoods lately is a good example.

BillJones · November 6, 2003 11:50PM

What makes an MS-70?

In a true sense, PERFECT. Perfect preservation; perfect strike.

In the real world what makes an MS-70? Politics. If the home shopping channels need MS-70s to sell, they will be made.

For my part I'd never pay a premium for an MS-70. Just because it's in a slab does not mean that it IS perfect. And just because it's in a slab does not mean that it will STAY perfect.

Life is too short to spend time worrying about PERFECT.

braddick · November 7, 2003 12:24AM

It's easy to miss a tick or light scuff on the RIM of the coin. Even the slightest mark will preclude your coin from reaching a 70 even if the fields and devices are perfect.

Russ · November 7, 2003 1:11AM

The quota sheet.

Russ, NCNE

Shamika · November 7, 2003 1:24AM

Dice and a dart board for starters.

MacCoin · November 7, 2003 1:49AM

I own a pr70 and a pr69 me state quarter and I can see the differance. a spot that looks like a star on the 69 but its VERY small. I think for me I need one of each to tell.

relayer · November 7, 2003 3:29AM

By definition - Fully struck, as struck and no imperfections under 5x magnification.

BUT if you sit there all day grading coins, I think some would stand out among the rest. The few, the proud, the 70's

mozeppa · November 7, 2003 10:26AM

perfection!..........to some degree

fivecents · November 7, 2003 10:33AM

What relayer said. No imperfections at 5x magnification is what PCGS says it does to grade MS70's.
I am not sure what NGC's MS70 standards are.

Bear · November 7, 2003 10:43AM

Its strange, I have seen PCGS PR 70DC coins that would be lucky to regrade PR-68DC.

Makes you wonder sometimes. The answer to your question is summed up in two words,

.................................................................A MIRACLE!!!!........................................................

Baley · November 7, 2003 12:06PM

A 70 is "as struck".

if you could find a draped bust dollar that is or looks like it's fresh out of the dies, it would be a 70, even if the dies were slightly imperfect to start with. If the dies were severly worn, or if the strike was significantly weaker than average, it would not make 70, even if mark free.

Similarly, if the perfectly struck bust dollar had marks, wear, heavy or uneven toning, or any other signs of handling or contact with anything, it would be less than 70.

The same principles are true of such "coins" as ASEs and modern proof strikes of circulation coinage, but the dies and planchets are far nicer, so the coins must be almost truely perfect (instead of just "as struck") to be a 70. Fortunately, lots of coins minted since about 1982 are "perfect" so there are lots of 69s and 70s.

Now as for which is which (a 69 or 70 on a modern coin), I agree with several posters who say it's largely "who you are" that determines if your perfect modern coin makes 70 or only gets 69.

but make no mistakes, really really nice modern coins are not all that rare.

cladking · November 7, 2003 12:27PM

<< <i>
but make no mistakes, really really nice modern coins are not all that rare. >>

There are NO regular issue moderns in MS-70. How's that for rare?

You could fit all the regular issue MS-69 moderns in a few slab boxes.
Not bad when you consider most are actually ultra moderns rather
than moderns. Most moderns don't exist in MS-69. Again, sounds pretty
rare. One man could carry all the graded MS-68 moderns.

You really should look at a few of these. You might be surprised.

Baley · November 7, 2003 12:34PM

You really should look at a few of these. You might be surprised.

don't need to.

I'm "perfectly" happy with ms65 modern coins.

I'll spend my "premium" dollars on something rare in any condition

cladking · November 7, 2003 12:54PM

<< <i>

don't need to.

I'm "perfectly" happy with ms65 modern coins.

I'll spend my "premium" dollars on something rare in any condition >>

I have no problem with anything one chooses to collect, and frankly, I really
like MS-65 moderns because they are sufficiently nice to show the coiners in-
tention. Many of these sets are actually quite difficult to obtain in MS-65. Most
of the coins are not overly difficult in these grades but some are extremely
elusive. Even in choice condition some will prove a challenge.

I personally don't like most moderns in MS-60 since they are so often quite un-
attactive, but if one includes some varieties these will also prove as difficult as
one desires.

Baley · November 7, 2003 1:01PM

I totally agree with you. I have lots and lots (and lots) of moderns from all countries, in AU58 to MS65, and a few that are even nicer. I love all coins, they're Great! But all my coins are either raw, or worth just as much if broken out of the plastic and sold raw, and therefore, I believe they'll be worth just as much if more are slabbed at the grades they're in. and I know this is not true of MS68 and 69 coins that either make or don't make a grade one point up. If others want to spend their money that way I think that's great for them! enjoy what you collect!

What makes a 70 ?

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