Do lame pedigrees hurt a slab price?

morganbarber · September 5, 2003 2:27AM

I admit that I might pay extra for a PCGS slabbed coin with "Eliasburg" on the slab, but sometimes on Ebay, or whatnot, I see a coin that I like, and the slabe says "joe Blow" on it. I would pay less for the Joe Blow piece. I know that I am supposed to be buying the coin, and not the slab, but it costs money if I want to lose Joe Blow. Am I the only one who discounts these pieces?

cherrypickincoin · September 5, 2003 2:44AM

I don't really care about pedigree, even for Eliasburg/Norweb/Garrett, etc. specimens. Not unless the slab said Abraham Lincoln, no way am I going to pay anymore for that coin than I feel is necessary.

Most coins were in someone's posession long ago. How do we know that 1806 Dollar or that 1799 Large Cent wasn't held by James Madison or Thomas Jefferson? After all, you almost certainly had to be upper class to even have a silver dollar in your pocket in those times.

For the other pedigrees, I tend to agree with you. I'd much rather not have my slab loitered with some guys name that I have never heard of. Eliasburg I wouldn't mind, I just wouldn't pay more for it but I don't like Joe Blow coins, unless it's a truly remarkable specimen that I can just get reholdered.

paigowjohnny · September 5, 2003 2:50AM

Depends on the pedigree, and how outrageous the price would be. I'd love to have an Eliasberg pedigreed coin, and would pay "above average", but not ridiculously so. I like the Binion pedigree that NGC is giving that group, because I happen to like the original story...

There are some PCGS graded coins pedigreed to "The Coin Guy Collection"..and nobody seems to know who that is...I'd love to know.

Steve27 · September 5, 2003 3:09AM

Yes, I've seen board members sell coins with lame pedigrees for less than coins without pedigrees. And just for the record, if your buying a coin for a registry set, your buying neither a coin nor a slab just the numbers on the slab.

cherrypickincoin · September 5, 2003 3:10AM

Well said, Steve.

nwcs · September 5, 2003 3:33AM

You can buy for registry without buying what the slab says.

Personally, pedigrees mean nothing to me unless their are from the "Neil Collection."

Shamika · September 5, 2003 4:07AM

I agree.

Several months ago there were some coins being sold with "The Coin Guy" listed as the provenance. Although the coins were nice, who the heck is "The Coin Guy" (and he isn't Mark Feld of Pinnacle Rarities)?

Do I really want "The Coin Guy" printed across slabs in my collection?

psxchelly · September 5, 2003 4:15AM

isnt this similar to buying a white pillowcase from Nordstoms or Macy's, versus buying them from K-Mart? they are both white pillowcases..

to me pedigree doesnt matter if you have a nice high quality piece you like. who cares someone named Eliasburg/Norweb/Garrett owned the coin. If a coin is graded MS67 or MS68, its MS67 or MS68 if it has a name on it or not.

baccaruda · September 5, 2003 4:19AM

Let me know if you find a slab pedigreed to Drew Peaco.ck or Craven Moorehead - I'll pay extra for those.

barberlover · September 5, 2003 4:21AM

Cherrypickin coins, If you ever see a slab with my pedigree on it you should be willing to pay at least a 20 % premium as my coins look better then most of the famous name pedigreed coins do.

Les

jbsteven · September 5, 2003 4:26AM

I own coins with Eliasberg, Benson and The Coin Guy and will pay extra for them. Eliasberg coins of course I will pay more for. If you have some for sale contact me.

I like to know a little history of a coin and if some famous person owned it great. To each his own

I have found out The Coin Guy was registered by a east coast dealer for one of his clients. I believe Michael knows a little about this.

billboat · September 5, 2003 4:46AM

I love (for whatever reason) 1888 Morgans. I've got 6 or 7. I wouldn't call it lame but one of them is a PCGS "Bass" MS64--I paid at least $20 more than I should have for the "Bass" pedigree/provenance. My guess is that it came from the Bass sale as part of a roll(s). Anyway, its my only "pedigree" coin and I paid a premium--doesn't look any better than my other 64's.

abuell · September 5, 2003 5:12AM

I'd sure love to have one with the Ryder, Boyd, Ford provenance and I can always hope that on October 14 I'll get one - but then I also am realistic about just what my chances really are.

Shamika · September 5, 2003 5:26AM

jbsteven,

I didn't mean to slight The Coin Guy, but it just seemed like a goofy provenance to have on a slab. There was a thread several months ago inquiring as to who this guy was, but nobody knew.

I will admit his coins were beautiful!

paigowjohnny · September 5, 2003 5:39AM

<< <i>Let me know if you find a slab pedigreed to Drew Peaco.ck or Craven Moorehead - I'll pay extra for those. >>

Or FrattLaw's favorite guy...Heywood Jablome

MadMarty · September 5, 2003 6:46AM

<< <i>Or FrattLaw's favorite guy...Heywood Jablome >>

ROTFLMAO!!!! I think I went to school with that guy!

jbsteven · September 5, 2003 6:52AM

shamika

no big deal, really

lava · September 5, 2003 7:19AM

Unless the Pedigree adds value, it just mucks up the label. So when does a Pedigree add value? In the case of Eliasburg, for example, he attempted to collect only the finest coins. When I see an Eliasburg pedigree, I get excited. The one Eliasburg I own is exceptional and is hands down the cleanest ms66 I have ever seen, and sight-unseen I would be inclined to pay a premium if I come across another.

That is not the case with people who are adding their name to a lot of slabs. For my example I will use Larry Shapiro, and I have nothing against the Larry so I hope this doesn't come across that way. Larry seems to have a good eye for dmpl and pl morgans, but he has had a good number of coins slabbed with his name when those coins are by no means the "finest" he has owned.

The solution seems to be that if you Pedigree a coin, then that is the one coin of that denomination/year/mint that you can Pedigree. Why does one guy need to Pedigree five 1878 7tf morgans? If he/she is limited to one, then we know that he/she will use more discriminating judgment in selecting that for the Pedigree coin. If that person upgrades later, then he/she can resubmit the prior coin and have it de-Pedigreed for free. Anybody with me on this?

Bear · September 5, 2003 7:40AM

What has everyone got against Joe Blow.

He may be a very nice person.

Who knows, some day his collection of g - vg type,

may rank up there with Carrett, Eli S. Berg and Jay Ross.

coppercoins · September 5, 2003 7:45AM

Yes, pedigrees do hurt a slab "price" because it costs more to gain self-importance by having your name on the label. Other than that, if a person buys the coin inside the slab rather than the slab itself, there should be no difference.

jbsteven · September 5, 2003 7:51AM

here is a common coin in a common grade that I paid double sheet for becuase of the name. Kinda cool to own something Eliasberg owned.

ohbaby · September 5, 2003 8:00AM

The whole Pedigree notion is kind of silly. Especially when catalogs trace a coin back 30yrs. naming "famous" people [who no one outside of coins has ever heard of]. Does it really matter Pittman owned the coin 2 decades ago? Even more absurd is how anyone else who has owned the coin since is irrelevant.

A while back I was in San Franciso on vacation and the hotel personnel told me about a great steak place [Tweeds] and added it was a favorite of Joe Montana's. While Joe was a great QB I would not be swayed one way or the other to eat where he eats or if he owned the restaurant. BTW, I did eat there and the food was excellent if very expensive.

I guess some are more star struck than others.

291fifth · September 5, 2003 8:19AM

Paying money for pedigrees is silly. The coin itself is all that matters to me.

paigowjohnny · September 5, 2003 8:20AM

The bottom line is....if you like it...buy it.

I like Redfield dollars in the original Paramount slab. The coins in and of themselves are for the most part no big deal...but I like the whole story that goes along with Redfield. Same with Binion. Scoff all you like...but it's my money.

Why not pay more for an Eliasberg coin ?? Hell, every person that's taken even a remotely serious approach to coin collecting has heard of Eliasberg. The guy is a frigging legend in the coin world. Own a piece of the legend...or don't if it doesn't float your boat.

I would LOVE to have a Wayne Miller pedigreed Morgan dollar...another legend to any of us who take our Morgans seriously...

It isn't any more silly than some guy collecting, say, elongated cents...or ugly seated Liberty coins...where it looks like she's sitting on the loo waving a flag...or Frankies for crying out loud...

lava · September 5, 2003 3:02PM

I'd be interested in hearing from others on this subject, and so............................ttt

PQpeace · September 5, 2003 3:11PM

In my case,
I only pedigree coins that are in my registry sets..
when I upgrade,I sell the lower graded coins.

Coins I buy to sell,never get a pedigree..

In the case with BASS,
I have seen tons of ms62 common date morgans worth about 20 bucks..
I guess he put his name on every coin he owned,
Larry

Robgetty · September 5, 2003 3:12PM

jbsteven,
I'll admit that I would have made an offer at the ANA show for the No Cent nickel just because of the
pedigree, if I hadn't come across a proof seated dollar that sucked all my $$ up.

I think that a famous pedigree is kind of neat. If you don't like a "common" pedigree, then the coin can
always be reholdered for $5 and pull the pedigree off, so it shouldn't knock the value down that much.

kyleknap · September 5, 2003 3:13PM

I don't pay more for pedigrees for my collection, because I crack all the coins out anyway...

There were rolls and rolls of common dates dollars (79s, 82s, 84o, 85o, etc) in the Bass sale. All of these coins were low grade (61-65), and for some reason I am unaware of, were all pedigreed.

Kyle

lava · September 5, 2003 4:18PM

Yes, the Bass example is a great example of someone whose name is affixed to a lot of Pedigree slabs, and I just don't get it. I have yet to see one that is noteworthy. I know a notable dealer that we all know that is interested in Jack Lee coins that were part of the original set, but not Jack Lee II. I ahven't seen enough of those to opine one way or the other.

I think if I were to start affixing some kind of pedigree on my coins, ideally no one would know it until after I'm dead and gone, because why else would I allow myself to be separated from the primo coins I felt worhty of my wonderful name. I wonder if PCGS will really believe my last name is Buffalobutt?

lava · September 6, 2003 1:30AM

<< <i>I'd be interested in hearing from others on this subject, and so............................ttt >>

jadecoin · September 10, 2003 3:16AM

Only if the pedigree is wrong!

Do lame pedigrees hurt a slab price?

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