I think this bust $ is probably fake. Am I wrong?

Placid · September 2, 2003 5:20AM

Fake?

jeffnpcb · September 2, 2003 5:23AM

It's tough to tell, but if I found it 60 seconds ago, 5 minutes later it would Express insured with a 1 day grading fee!!

ER · September 2, 2003 5:23AM

"HOLY COW! I JUST FOUND THIS COIN IN AN OLD BOX 60 SECONDS AGO!"
'nuff said.

coinlieutenant · September 2, 2003 5:24AM

hard to say....

96% pos feedback =4%neg.

I agree with what jeff and ER said...

John

lordmarcovan · September 2, 2003 5:43AM

Confucius say:

NEVER TRUST PERSON WHO DO NOT USE 'SHIFT' KEY.

(They're "shiftless". Get it?)

Dang, that was a good pun, even if I do say so myself.

And I found it- um- thought of it- only fifteen seconds ago.

Placid · September 2, 2003 5:49AM

<< <i>It's tough to tell, but if I found it 60 seconds ago, 5 minutes later it would Express insured with a 1 day grading fee!! >>

Not put it on eBay with no reserve and start it at $1.00? Your not a power seller are you?

ER · September 2, 2003 5:52AM

<< <i>Confucius say:

NEVER TRUST PERSON WHO DO NOT USE 'SHIFT' KEY.

(They're "shiftless". Get it?)

Dang, that was a good pun, even if I do say so myself.

And I found it- um- thought of it- only fifteen seconds ago.

>>

HE REALLY SAID THAT? HOLY COW! I DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD 'SHIFT' KEY IN THOSE DAYS.

billboat · September 2, 2003 5:59AM

Is a person who uses the shift key "shifty"? Sometimes shift just happens!

RBB617 · September 2, 2003 6:03AM

I don't know a lot about the 1800 Bust Dollars but everything about this seems suspect. I have looked at quite a few, in person, in print and online, and I have never seen one that toned like that. Doesn't mean that it isn't possible, but I agree with Jeff, if I just found a toned 1800 Bust with that toning, I would have it to a grading service as soon as possible, and I sure wouldn't start bidding at $1.00. Also, there are plenty of fake Bust Dollars floating around. I have seen many being offered on eBay out of Hong Kong and Taiwan. Some mention "reproduction" or "copy" and some don't. I don't know how tough it would be to AT a fake Bust, but I'm sure someone has figured it out. I would be happy if we were wrong on this one, but I don't think that we are.
Brian

Placid · September 2, 2003 6:11AM

To me the lettering in this picture looks off. The C seems to be curved a little bit wrong and the foot on the A seems too sloped. The flag on the R seem pointed not flat.

Real one.

cherrypickincoin · September 2, 2003 6:13AM

If it was genuine and MS60, it would be certified. No one in there right mind would put an 1800 Dollar up raw if they knew it was real.

cherrypickincoin · September 2, 2003 6:24AM

Okay, I just re-read what the seller said in the text. He says there are marks on the coin that were left there from someone "200+ years ago, not from circulation..." Makes me believe it COULD be a genuine 1800 Dollar but it has been severely tooled/re-engraved. Notice also that he says there is a scratch in the hair...hmmmm

It could even be spark erosion or some other counterfeit that has been tooled masterfully to resemble the real thing. Very difficult to tell but I certainly would NOT trust it.

Blackhawk · September 2, 2003 6:26AM

Check out one of his other auctions...he's selling envelopes that tone coins

. I think that may provide you with an answer gentlemen.

Barry · September 2, 2003 6:30AM

I just won one of his auctions for a PCGS coin before the weekend. He's been very good so far, telling me when he shipped, etc. Hopefully, coin will arrive tomorrow. If any problems, I'll post a follow-up note here.

mgoodm3 · September 2, 2003 6:36AM

If I had an original toned uncirculated bust $. It would be slabbed and put into a major auction house. Not Ebay with a 1 dollar minimum.

MrEureka · September 2, 2003 6:51AM

The coin looks real to me. The toning is a bit, er, suspect.

ER · September 2, 2003 6:53AM

Where does this guy get the idea that MS60 is the finest 1800 AMERICAI Bust Dollar, and that PCGS has never graded one higher than AU?

Bear · September 2, 2003 6:55AM

Plenty of people walking around with fake busts.

lordmarcovan · September 2, 2003 6:56AM

It has to be a spark-erosion counterfeit. It's just too much of a longshot to consider the alternative.

291fifth · September 2, 2003 7:57AM

I know very little about this series but the fact that it not slabbed and should be tells me all I need to know.

WWW · September 2, 2003 8:08AM

The leaves on the olive branch look different than those in the comparison photo.

NewmisED · September 2, 2003 8:08AM

From his ebay auction:

HOLY COW! I JUST FOUND THIS COIN IN AN OLD BOX 60 SECONDS AGO! IT IS THE FINEST KNOWN (THAT I KNOW OF) 1800 AMERICAI BUST DOLLAR! IT IS A STRICT MS60 COIN

CoinGuy42 · September 2, 2003 9:02AM

Found it 60 seconds ago, yet knows so much about that particular coin. If it seems to good to be true.....

toyonakataro · September 2, 2003 9:22AM

Looks corroded, bent, ATed and damaged AU to me.

Shamika · September 2, 2003 10:31AM

It looks real, but I can't believe it is! None the less, if it isn't, it's a pretty good fake.

dorkkarl · September 3, 2003 3:00AM

<< <i>I JUST FOUND THIS COIN IN AN OLD BOX 60 SECONDS AGO! ...IT IS A STRICT MS60 COIN >>

this fruitcake should have waited 4 more seconds - then it would've been ms64!

K S

legacycoin · September 3, 2003 3:07AM

None of the images are clear enough to make an authenticity decision. The surfaces are definitely not original though. Something is hiding underneath the artificial toning.....

jadecoin · September 3, 2003 3:14AM

I agree with Legacy (Paul) on this one. Furthermore, this particular seller is quite crafty with the camera. It's as if he is purposely positioning the coin to make it impossible to authenticate and/or grade the coin, yet intice the potential buyer into thinking that this really is an MS-60. If I had to guess, I would say that it's the real thing (just a guess without better images), but it is NOT an uncirculated coin and it DOES have problems.

His eBay description is good for a laugh, though. I like this part: IT IS THE FINEST KNOWN (THAT I KNOW OF)

What if it's the only 1800 AMERICAI $ that he knows of??? The 60 second thing was very humorous as well.

Conder101 · September 3, 2003 8:51AM

If it's a fake it's a darn good one. Not all of the ones that you usually see that can be identified from across the room.

Barry · September 4, 2003 10:40PM

A follow-up note, as promised.

I won one of this guy's auction for a PCGS coin. He shipped promptly and no surprises.

Baley · September 5, 2003 5:19AM

flowing hair half? let's see it!

Barry · September 5, 2003 5:57AM

Baley, I was planning to do photos (and update the type set page) over the weekend, but since you insist

Photo done, will update web page later. BTW, if anyone's interested in the 1795 half (raw, VG-8) pictured in the type set link below (as of Fri afternoon), feel free to make an offer. If not, I'll be getting it slabbed in the next few months and eventually sell it.

The streakiness on the obverse is barely visible when looking at the coin.

billboat · September 5, 2003 6:52AM

So Barry--did you get my PM?

Barry · September 5, 2003 8:03AM

Billboat - yes, reply sent.

NJCollector · September 5, 2003 1:53PM

He doesnt ship with insurance? Seems a bit strange. Also, so far, 3 of the bidders placing multiple bids (driving the price up) are brand new to Ebay? Seems odd that thisw would be their first experience on Ebay. All seems a bit out of sort.

GAT · September 5, 2003 2:26PM

This guy has listed the same coin in a second auction on eBay and has bids. I am not an eBay seller but running two auctions of the same coin simultanously must be illegal. He also claims now that the only reason it isn't slabbed is because of the gash in the hair,

Text2nd 1800 $

cardinal · September 5, 2003 3:51PM

ALSO PLEASE NOTICE THE REASON THIS IS NOT A PCGS/NGC SLABBED MS64-65 IS THERE IS A HIDDEN MARK IN LIBERTY'S HAIR AS SHOWN IN THESE PICTURES.

Is the mark really that "hidden"? While the coin at least looks like a genuine early dollar, it certainly looks to be significantly damaged to me -- clearly "body bag" material.

Clever way to plant the idea of the MS64-65 grade. By the same token the following early dollar would be slabbed PCGS/NGC-70, except for...

..except for 68 points-worth of wear!

Barry · September 5, 2003 8:55PM

NJCollector - he shipped my coin Registered, insured.

I think this bust $ is probably fake. Am I wrong?

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