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A perfect example of buying the coin, NOT the holder....black and white cameo!

SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just like sharing. Got this one recently from Don (ebay seller donr99). He always has the BEST dmpl dollars for sale, as the contrast on this one can attest. Love those true black and white cameos! Liked it so much I had to overlook the PCI holder.... Anyone else have some nice cameo Morgans to share?

image

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    SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    look at that frost! those mirrors!

    (...just fishing for some comments......)

    image
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    MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭


    << <i>(...just fishing for some comments......) >>



    OK, no offense, but the scan sucks! I can see the frost, but the coin looks very hazy to me... DIP THE SUCKER!!!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

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    MadMonkMadMonk Posts: 3,743
    MadMarty! Control thy self.....image
    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey Marty

    that's a tendancy with DMPL's, to appear hazed over. while this one may be hazy it has nice frost and i'd bet deep mirrors. but hey, aside from that it's in a gold PCI holder so you'd better jump all over the coin as a piece of crap, right?? after all...............

    nice lookin' coin slammer!!

    al h.image

    i would offer this as a comparison. while the mirrors are clearer than slammer's picture, they still appear hazy. they are in fact comparable to a modern proof. they just highlight any planchet flaws or bag marks.

    image
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Anyone else have some nice cameo Morgans to share? >>



    As it so happens, I just finished imaging one:

    image

    Still in the original GSA slab.

    Russ, NCNE
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    jharjhar Posts: 1,126
    Do you have the coin in hand, or do all you have is the scan right now. Looks like a really nice coin. I personally don't have a problem with PCI graded coins. I just treat them the same as a raw coin. The same goes for SEGS, NTC, etc. I usually accept PCGS, NGC and ANACS at their grades. If I like the coin, and the price fits, I'll buy it. Doesn't matter what plastic holder it's in.

    Morgans anyone??

    image
    J'har
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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I usually accept PCGS, NGC and ANACS at their grades.

    probably a mistake, but one that just occurs less often.

    al h.image
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    Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭
    Somebody beat me to it, but the haze worries me too. I was offered a DMPL 1878 8TF MS64 Morgan at ANA. Graded by SEGS. List $1500, offered to me at $950. Same issue, haze. Don't think it will cross as a DMPL to NGC/PCGS because of it.

    Can it be dipped out?

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    I'm not convinced that's haze we're seeing on the coin that SeattleSlammer posted. It looks more like field frost to me, which is a natural part of the minting process.

    Russ, NCNE
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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    Wolf359,

    A) Like most DMPL Morgans, that piece has already been dipped at least once, it's easy to see from that pic

    B) That coin is a no question DMPL all day, and would make DMPL at any service without a doubt

    C) That is not haze you see in the fields, it's what happens when people think they need to dip and re-dip DMPL dollars over and over to improve them. It diminishes the mirrors a bit each time it's dipped, and brings out a mirror/frost area in the fields which is sometimes confused with haze

    dragon
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    SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the replies. I do not have the dollar in hand yet, however, from doing business with Don in the past, I am confident that if their were haze on the coin, he would have mentioned it to me. Also, his pics are extremely accurate (like a certain greattoning that everyone has had comments on in the past....) And maybe we're looking at different scans, but I don't even see haze in the picture I posted (?). Alas, it is true that some become a bit overzealous when dipping dmpl's......

    Thanks for the extra cameo pics.....love 'em!

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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    <<<It looks more like field frost to me, which is a natural part of the minting process.>>>

    Russ, I'm not sure what that means, but I can tell you that when that 84-O came off the dies in 1884, it probably resembled a modern proof coin,,,,however over 100 years and Jeweluster have taken it's toll on the fields of that piece which is why it appears there are areas of frost in the fields which were not there when it was minted, that is actually the Jeweluster attacking the mirrors. See the areas around stars number 2-4 on the obverse and around 'A' and 'R' on the reverse, that is not haze, it's the result of dipping, and if that piece were dipped a few more times, those areas of frost will appear even more in the fields as they attack the reflectivity. Fortunately, that coin started out as a very deep mirror coin, so it still qualifies as an easy DMPL. Also, some DMPL's appear to have frost in the fields depending on how the coin is tilted and the light hits it.




    dragon
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    sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    I can make fields look black without having 6 inches of reflection


    to say that coin is DMPL all day without actually seeing the coin (not a photograph in a slab)
    is only fooling yourself




    you should have titled this thread - buying a picture of a coin (and hoping the coin meets my expectations)



    it looks to me as if there is enough cloudiness in the fields to make deep reflections difficult



    I hope you get the coin you want, but you should realize if you are going to crack it out it may comeback PL from another service
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    labloverlablover Posts: 3,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seattle,
    enjoy your new purchase...me likely. You asked for others so although it's posted before here another look.

    image
    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i><<<It looks more like field frost to me, which is a natural part of the minting process.>>>

    Russ, I'm not sure what that means, but I can tell you that when that 84-O came off the dies in 1884, it probably resembled a modern proof coin...however over 100 years and Jeweluster have taken it's toll on the fields of that piece which is why it appears there are areas of frost in the fields which were not there when it was minted >>



    Dragon,

    Modern proof coins, prior to 1971, frequently have field frost. Less so, since 1971. It is microscopic little eensy teensy breaks in the mirroring in the fields. Clustered, they look "frosty".

    While dipping can create it, a coin does not have to be dipped for it to happen. It can happen quite naturally during the minting process. See the 83-CC I just posted above. It has some field frost, and it's still sealed in the GSA holder. Did the government dip them before distribution?

    Russ, NCNE
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    NM
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    SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sinin1,

    I can tell you from knowing the seller of this coin that it will be a true DMPL when it arrives. He is very strict about the DMPL pieces he deals in. His coins are top notch, and usually command substantial premiums over the usual DMPL's you see slabbed. And they deserve those premiums.

    I agree that it is easy to get even barely PL coins to look DMPL in pictures. But, again, that is not the case here. If I am wrong, I promise I'll even come on here and let you know about it.

    Cheers

    image
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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    <<<See the 83-CC I just posted above. It has some field frost, and it's still sealed in the GSA holder. Did the government dip them before distribution?>>>

    The natural mint caused frost extending into the fields found primarily on some exceptional Carson City DMPL coins, also called the 'halo effect' is completely different than what I was referring to and has a different look to it. It is also usually seen extending outward from the devices above the eagles head, surrounding the leg feathers, and around the periphery of Ms. Libertys face and below the cap. Obviously this is a completely different effect than overdipping a DMPL dollar until one starts to destroy the reflectivity in the fields, the halo effect found on some CC dollars is considered to be a positive attribute to the coin.

    dragon

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The natural mint caused frost extending into the fields found primarily on some exceptional Carson City DMPL coins, also called the 'halo effect' is completely different than what I was referring to and has a different look to it. >>



    Dragon,

    Then I guess the one I posted is extra special, since the "halo" extends all the way out to the periphery in some areas. Look around the date on the obverse, for example. That's mint frost. I don't pretend to have anywhere near the experience with Morgans that you do, but I do know a little bit about proof coins. If, as you say, a DMPL came from the mint looking like a modern proof, than it certainly can have the same mint created field frost as one, and it has absolutely nothing to do with dipping.

    Russ, NCNE

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    MorganluverMorganluver Posts: 517 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Dragon, it's a DMPL all day, nice coin Slammer, I'm sure you'll like it. I also have dealt with the seller. Nice guy and definately knows his DMPLs. image
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    Russ' photography which is just slighly INFERIOR to mine (for your benefit, Nosenheimer) - does NOT do that Morgan justice.

    OH MAN-O-MAN.... she's a beaut! image

    I wish I could afford such incredible lovliness. image
    Thanks Russ - for sharing her - even for so brief a time. It was heavenly. image
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know this seller Don very well. Has mostly nice quality coins. But to think every coin he sells is a winner is being a little too hopeful imo. Matter of fact I'll probably be seeing him in the morning. He has very high quality CC DMPL Morgans. See I'm being positive nowimage

    But on the flip side I have seen some not so pretty DMPL he has. Not every coin any dealer has is going to be a winner.

    Case in point... about 2 years ago he had a DMPL CC Morgan in NGC 66. I felt the coin had way too much chatter for 66, had nice cameo black and white etc. etc. Some other people thought the coin was fine including the seller. Well I stuck to my guns and passed on the coin.

    I believe he still has it in inventory to this day.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    Russ,

    The 83-CC dollar that you posted does not have the halo effect I was referring to from what I can see in that pic, and I would post pics of a couple to show you what I I was trying to explain to everyone,,,, if I could get my scanner to work.
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    image

    Close up of "halo." (Pic is a scan of the 82-cc in Miller's book).

    Kyle
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Kyle,

    Cool, that's the very rare "split-screen" variety. image

    Russ, NCNE
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    LOL Russ,

    It's the computer-illiterate-kyle-can't-work-scanner variety.

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