An opinion on Green PCGS Holders

elwood · August 18, 2003 2:07PM

I'm a Virgin so be gentle with me. The mystique of the 1st & 2nd Generation PCGS holder is quite amazing. There are some hidden jewels in these green holders but most of the time the reason they are still there is, they belong there and will remain there for eternity. Outward appearance would suggest that these coins are under graded. Be very careful and be sure to look very closely because alot of these coins have been net graded, because of minor problems. Some of these coins are accurately graded with no chance for an upgrade so will also remain in the original holder. An example of net grading would be the 1893-S Morgan in the PCGS VG-10 holder, earlier discussed as to the grading. With todays standards the coin was obviously F-15 to VF-20 detail. One observer pointed out the gouge on the neck, another the light cleaning, no one seemed to notice the major rim disturbance from 3-4:00 on the reverse. It almost looks like it's been repaired. It sold for $2,425.00. I have a F-15 (problem free) in a Green Holder that I would love to get that much for. There are alot of undergraded coins in these holders and it is fun to watch when a collection of them show up in an auction. Everyone salivates and dreams of ripping one or more only to find out when the bidding ends you've just paid one or two grade levels higher for the coin. You better hope it upgrades when you crack it out. I prefer to leave them in the holder. I find it much more enjoyable to own an undergraded coin in a holder than an overgraded one. There is always the joy of wondering what it could be. The mystique of the Green Labeled Holder will remain. And remember, buy the coin, not the holder.

keets · August 18, 2003 2:15PM

hey elwood

sometimes the best thing to do with one of the types of coins you speak of is simple, send it to PCGS for a reholder. there are 2 schools of thought with the older slabs, that they were often undergraded and that the ones left are there for a reason. with a reholder that stigma is lost and the coin must be judged on it's own merits.

holder bias.

al h.

ConstellatioCollector · August 18, 2003 2:21PM

Elwood, The info I have received was that the green label coins were graded back in the 80s and were graded very tightly. Take the plunge and see what you get!

coiNuts · August 18, 2003 2:25PM

Old PCGS coins are either:
A: correctly graded and will stay put
B: overgrade and nobody would dare crack it out
C: undergraded and need to be sent in (for the money man)

I take the overgraded ones and send them to PCGS to have them put in current slabs, or get offered market value so PCGS can get rid of them..............................

BAJJERFAN · August 18, 2003 2:39PM

Anyone ever thought to ask HRH about the green label enchantment?

DCAMFranklin · August 18, 2003 2:41PM

<< <i>I'm a Virgin so be gentle with me >>

What an absolute shame that some Members here create such an intimidating atmoshere, that a brand new Member, such as Elwood, would have to make such a statement. Elwood, welcome to the Forums. I look forward to your continued participation here. Enjoy your time here! Don't be intimidated by any Member here. You may find, in time, that your knowledge of the hobby far exceeds their own.

Regarding the green label coins. If you, or anyother collector, is confident in your grading skills, then it is certainly worth cracking the coin out of its current holder and submitting for a new grade. Just my opinion.

LucyBop · August 18, 2003 2:43PM

I'll intimidate him.... and even fix that virgin problem as well!

Mrpawn · August 18, 2003 2:46PM

Welcome to the Forums

All I can say about those early slabs is to judge the coin and not the slab.

Enjoy your coins

ohbaby · August 18, 2003 2:46PM

I'm a Virgin so be gentle with me.
So how was it so far?

Great question and one I have thought of asking for some time.

I own a few of these green labels and feel over time they will be worth less as all the undergraded ones will have been cracked out. Debating on selling "for the money man" or reholdering. Decisions decisions....

I'll intimidate him.... and even fix that virgin problem as well!

elwood · August 18, 2003 3:01PM

I don't think I've been de-flowered yet. I'm sure it will happen at some point.

I agree, in a few years everything will have been cracked out and all that will be left in green holders will be the problem coins and it will then be considered a negative.

coltgus · August 18, 2003 3:36PM

I would recommend sending in the coin for regrade. There is NO POINT in cracking a PCGS coin and sending it to PCGS since it might go down in grade. According to PCGS when a coin is sent in for regrade they crack it and send it through the grading process again so you can get a higher grade but not a lower grade. I had a 1910-S $10 Indian in PCGS MS61 that came back in a MS63 holder. Someone on this board said the current grade is the first of the three grades which might tempt someone to crack out but a former PCGS grader told me that a regrade is handled just like a raw coin. Maybe we need to ask homerunhall about this.

bigbadchad777 · August 18, 2003 6:52PM

I have had good luck with the regrade submissions. Out of 8 submissions: 4 came back the same, 2 came back 1 grade higher, and 2 came back 2 grades higher! On one coin, that was a $1100 increase.

jonesy · August 18, 2003 9:45PM

First of all, The green PCGS slabs run all the way to at least 1996. Which Green Slabs are the undergraded??

elwood · August 18, 2003 11:22PM

I believe there are at least five different styles before they switched to blue.

EVillageProwler · August 18, 2003 11:39PM

Collector/Dealer

Steve,

I think your sig is inaccurate! As for your being a virgin, I'll protect you as long as you continue to feed my nicotine habit at shows!

EVP

291fifth · August 18, 2003 11:53PM

Learn to grade and then buy the coin and not the plastic.

Lakesammman · August 18, 2003 11:55PM

I like the old holders for copper - if they look good in a older holder, they are unlikely to "turn" later on, if stored properly.

elwood · August 19, 2003 12:14AM

Hey Esteban,

I'll bring an extra pack to Long Beach. See Ya there!!

Oh! I guess I do like more than the early stuff. There is just to much stuff to like.

elwood · August 19, 2003 12:30AM

Yes, besides copper it's nice to find early gold in the old holders for the same reason. Some of these guys really know how to ruin coins.

NewmisED · August 19, 2003 2:25AM

An opinion on Green PCGS Holders

Sure. In short, they are plastic.

Well, you asked me.........

Nic · August 19, 2003 3:07AM

Welcome Steve.... its about time! Turn on your pm. We need to discuss FUN . K

Nic · August 19, 2003 12:27PM

Steve,
Go to profile, top right after you log in. Scroll down and click "on" to the allow private messages choice.

. K

roadrunner · August 19, 2003 12:44PM

Sorry, but I disagree with the theories on green label PCGS slabs. I continue to see a steady stream of them hit local and regional shows/dealers. There are still a lot of coins buried from the 1988-90 market that have yet to be available. I see half a dozen every few weeks or so at my local dealer. As far as seeing green tags at shows, they appear to be mostly well graded or PQ. I rarely see one I don't like. What's much more negative is the constant barrage of over-dipped bust, seated, and Barber type coins out there with damaged luster. As far as greenies getting a negative connotation down the road, I doubt it. IF the grading standards inflate another tenth or two, many of those green tags will be in upgrade territory. And as the market goes up, the services will inflate, just like the FED. When the market falls, they'll tighten up. IF they look like upgrade candidates in the holder....they will look just as good out of the holder.

roadrunner

oreville · August 19, 2003 12:45PM

I have done surveys on green versus blue inserts; dealers as well as collectors gravitate towards green inserts first.

In addition, coins that look good in green inserts are more likely to be "stable" than their blue counterparts for silver as well as copper coins. Gold and nickel is somewhat less of a concern.

In fact, with time, the mystique and allure of the green inserts is growing!

Just remember that an overgraded coin with a green insert can be reholdered for $5 into the new blue inserts with no questions asked by PCGS!!!

So the comment that all the remaining coins in the green inserts will likely by overgraded is pure and absolute crap!!!

roadrunner · August 19, 2003 1:01PM

Well said Oreville

I'm a big fan of green tag gold. In 90+% of the time I like what I see in green gold. Some are shot coins, most are nice, very very few are low end or doggy.

roadrunner

coltgus · August 19, 2003 2:29PM

I just asked David Hall in the Q&A and he confirmed that a regrade is handled just like a raw coin after the crack out. Therefore it is insane to crack a PCGS coin and send it back to PCGS.

islemangu · August 19, 2003 3:53PM

I have several green holders and they are all undergraded PQ coins. If I was looking to sell them now as I think you mentioned you wanted to sell yours...I would send it in for the reholdered upgrade right now.

But if I was keeping them for possible future sale...no way...keep as it is. With the grading getting more relaxed and all this AT and treatment crap going on and some getting slabbed these days....I wouldnt be surprised if one day its universialy realized the green label time was a classical period for coin grading... before all the monkey business and that a higher values would follow coins in these old slabs.

jonesy · August 19, 2003 4:09PM

In responce on green holders, I believe the only conservative green holder is the Rattler Holder. See Cameron's website to distinguish to differance. The Rattler would be PCGS2 and PCGS2.1.

SampleSlabsSite

edited to provide slab numbers

Baley · August 19, 2003 6:39PM

the green rattlers are usually conservatively graded! the others i dont know.

elwood · August 19, 2003 10:59PM

mdwoods · August 20, 2003 12:41AM

I have upgraded a couple coins that were in green holders, and I have seen coins that were overgraded in green holders. The rattler holders were probably the most conservatively graded, but I have a couple Franklins and a Pattern in rattlers that are not undergraded.

elwood · August 20, 2003 12:47AM

<< <i>So the comment that all the remaining coins in the green inserts will likely by overgraded is pure and absolute crap!!! >>

Oreville

I didn't say overgraded coins I said problem coins that appear to be undergraded because they have been net graded because of a problem. I also said accurately graded coins would remain in green holders. Are you tyring to tell me that in 10 years or 20 years there is still going to be all these undergraded coins in green holders (unless you have an old collection that comes up for sale)? That no one is going to crack them out and have them upgraded? THINK AGAIN!! These coins are being cracked so fast, if there is even the slightest opportunity for financial gain.

EVillageProwler · August 20, 2003 1:34AM

I didn't say overgraded coins I said problem coins that appear to be overgraded because they have been net graded because of a problem.

Don't you mean "appear to be UNDERgraded"???

And, welcome to the message boards. Baptism by fire is fun, ain't it?!?

EVP

elwood · August 20, 2003 2:27AM

OOPS!!! Yes I mean undergraded coins

Thanks!!!

BillJones · August 20, 2003 6:38AM

In case anyone has missed, some of the same comments that I have read here about PCGS LARGE green holder coins (I don't like most of the old, little "rattlers" that I have seen.) can be said for NGC holders with the hollogram all the way across the back of the holder and NCG holders with no hollogram and the gold embossed trade marks. I've cracked out a number of those coins in the MS grades have gotten them upgraded by 1 or 2 points.

The trouble with all of these comments is that NOT ALL OLD holders are overgraded, properly graded or PQ. Some are overgraded, and you need to know how to grade coins to make that determination. You just can't buy an old holder and think that you have gotten an instant bargain.

roadrunner · August 20, 2003 11:44AM

Elwood, I have numerous old green slabs (rattlers and later ones) that I'm in no hurry to do anything with. Most were bought because they were nice. I have friends (dealers too) that have them stockpiled. Unless you're nearly certain you'll get the upgrade, they are actually better off left in the green holders because they will bring more to the next buyer.

roadrunner

elwood · August 20, 2003 12:37PM

roadrunner, Exactly!! That's what I was trying to point out. The mystique of the green holder. The fact that a coin is in one will usually cause the coin to bring a premium price. Rightfully so or not. I personally like the look of a coin better in a green holder vs a blue.

elwood

roadrunner · August 20, 2003 12:52PM

Not much of a mystique to me since in 1989 they graded on average 1/2 to 3/4 point tighter than today and in the first half of the 1990's maybe 1/3 to 1/2 point tighter than today. The coins are in fact better on average. While it is still common to find them a full point undergraded, finding them overgraded is still very tough. This is not the case with the NGC coins imo. They allowed a much larger # of toned and subdued coins to pass by. I've had very very few disappointments with green tags even buying sight unseen. But I cannot say the same with NGC early holders. And much if that is due to reholdering all the nice NGC coins into PCGS holders.

roadrunner

elwood · August 20, 2003 1:03PM

roadrunner, Here's a Seated Dime you might like.

An opinion on Green PCGS Holders

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