PCGS & Net Grading (The Poll)

cosmicdebris · July 28, 2003 8:54PM

After reading David's Q&A from last night I figured this would make a good Poll.

Net Grading or Body Bags, what's your choice?

Outhaul · July 28, 2003 9:26PM

Net grading is fine with me. After plunking down my hard-earned money, I expect a little bit more than a two-cent baggie after a two-month wait. If the coin has a problem I didn't catch, do me a favor...net-grade it and put it in the holder I paid for.

Just my ever-so-humble opinion.

Cheers,

Bob

JxnBoy · July 28, 2003 9:32PM

Myself, I'd prefer the NCS type designation. Give me the details and the problems and leave the net grade up to the buyer/seller/owner, like UNC details, lightly cleaned. There are still coins that cost $100 or more that have been mistreated at some point in their life. It doesn't mean I don't want to protect the coin in a slab, though. Just my thoughts.

David

Outhaul · July 28, 2003 9:45PM

JxnBoy,

I never thought of it that way, but I like the way you think. Forget the net grade and let the buyer/seller determine. Just list the problems on the label.

Cheers,

Bob

291fifth · July 28, 2003 10:09PM

Neither. While I realize that SEGS doesn't get much respect, and perhaps doesn't deserve it, their method of slabbing/grading is the best on the market. They state the grade based on wear and then add disclaimers, mostly negative but sometimes positive, regarding the coin. I have found that I almost never agree with net grades assigned (as in the case of ANACS). I usually would have deducted more.
Body bagged coins are a monumental waste of money and deter me from submitting to PCGS. I think PCGS should adopt a SEGS like grading system for coins that don't make it into their regular holders. A different label color, such as used by PCI, would be a great idea for coins with negative disclaimers.

cosmicdebris · July 28, 2003 10:26PM

Great Stuff Guys how about some dealer input? Or all of you already at the ANA.

dorkkarl · July 28, 2003 10:34PM

link please?

K S

eisq222 · July 28, 2003 10:37PM

I agree PLACE THE COIN IN A SLAB with problem stated!!!!

jonesy · July 28, 2003 11:21PM

If you know how to grade and have a problem coin, send it to ANACS. The do net grading.

OnlyBuffalos · July 28, 2003 11:43PM

Why not offer a requestor's option --- body bag or net grade with problems listed?

cosmicdebris · July 29, 2003 2:13AM

Only 42 votes so far? Come on we need lots more.

cherrypickincoin · July 29, 2003 2:15AM

Gosh no. I really hope they don't start net grading coins, I think it will destroy the reputation they have. You can send your coins to ANACS for that!

LucyBop · July 29, 2003 2:15AM

I'm in the minority here... Don't put Martys Baked Potatoe toners in PCGs holders.... Or his Flame Broiled Frankies!

Steve · July 29, 2003 3:03AM

I would accept PCGS putting their problem coins in a slab, BUT the slab should have a VERY distinctly DIFFERENT color label and font from their regular slabbed coins. Anyone going to a show should immediately be able to see the difference. This action would give the customer, at least some value for the grading fee he has paid and it still would not distroy the VERY important fact that owners of coins in slabbed PCGS holders can at least perceive that they have a marketable coin. JMHO. Steve

Cam40 · July 29, 2003 3:15AM

I,m torn I guess.
I know PCGS isnt in the business of slabbing `problem coins` though we,ve all seen a few in their holders right?
I do like the idea of having those (problem) coins maybe slabbed in an alternate slab and maybe with a slightly different
TPG name other than PCGS.
Maybe ...PCGS lite ? lol
Maybe they could come up with a `sister company that would holder these for PCGS as they see fit.
Otherwise I suppose its best to cater to only the best coins and remain the premier TPG company
in town.

jadecoin · July 29, 2003 3:16AM

Maybe PCGS could start a sister company called Problem Coin Grading Service!

cherrypickincoin · July 29, 2003 3:21AM

I wouldn't have a problem if PCGS set up a company similar to NCS where they will encapsulate your problem coins in a holder with a details grade. I think net grading is extremely subjective and really depends on the eye of the beholder just how bad the problems with the coin are. A details grade would be the best, leaving the market to decide its actual price along with the guarantee of it being authentic, just like NCS does. They would need to set this up as a different company so not to ruin the name of PCGS by putting them in the same holders, JMO.

Barry · July 29, 2003 3:25AM

<< Gosh no. I really hope they don't start net grading coins, I think it will destroy the reputation they have. You can send your coins to ANACS for that! >>

How does it destory their reputation, Brian? Nobody's saying slab it without identifying the problem. Slab it with a grade and identify the problem. It's also an authentication issue. There are plenty of key date coins with problems that still should be authenticated.

If I pay for a coin to be slabbed, I want it slabbed!

JxnBoy · July 29, 2003 3:30AM

I like some of cherrypickincoin's thoughts too. A separate company may be better, but that still wouldn't solve the body bag issue if you thought the coin would grade.

I think a lot of collectors want some type of similarity to their collection. I'd rather look through my own collection of a certain series in a certain holder, regardless of whether the coin was mishandled at one point. Take for example a really expensive key date, like a lightly cleaned 1927-S Standing Liberty. Normally a bodybag at PCGS. The rest of my collection is in PCGS slabs, and I just want this one to match my set. (This unfortunately is not a real world scenario, since a set of SLQ's is sky high, but still...) A 1927-S with AU details lightly cleaned is still probably a $500 to $1000 coin, depending of course on the harshness of the cleaning and the overall quality of the coin and strike. To me, I'd like it in a holder matching the rest of my set. Leave the net grading to me and note it on the holder.

David

Cam40 · July 29, 2003 3:40AM

how bout...PrCGS = problem coin grading service.

or CCGS = cruddy coin grading service...

Hey I,m only trying to help?

Shamika · July 29, 2003 4:20AM

"Maybe PCGS could start a sister company called Problem Coin Grading Service! "

Dog97 · July 29, 2003 4:58AM

Personally I like PCGS's snobbish elite attitude that they want to keep junk out of PCGS holders.
As a result I'll send my questionable junk to ANACS and my better quality stuff to PCGS which is the idea behind the policy anyway.

goose3 · July 29, 2003 5:02AM

Net grading SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

I want to know the grade and have the problem noted. I cannot stand the way ANACS basically assigns a value to a coin with their grading. NCS does it the right way.

jdimmick · July 29, 2003 6:48AM

Keep the net grading where its currently at.
I hope PCGS never goes this direction. It will ruin thier reputation and credibility with accuratley graded, marketable problem free coins.

If they do, I will personaly break out every single key-date coin I have and submit it to somebody else!
And not buy another PCGS holdered coin tillthe day I die.

thats not a threat, thats a promise!!!!!!!!!!!

mdwoods · July 29, 2003 6:56AM

I think they should net grade, and perhaps they do to a certain extent, for coins that have a certain level of rarity. Like maybe 1793 Liberty Cap cents or Pine Tree coinage maybe.

my3cents · July 29, 2003 7:03AM

I agree with PCGS's strategy to keep problem coins out of their holders. It's great for their marketing and image.

On the other hand, I want something for my $30 and my wait!

Give me a PCGS-like holder- but put a RED or even hot pink label on it with all of the problems noted. I don't care if it is assigned a grade or not. I just want SOMETHING for my money.

Hmmm....I wonder if the body bag count is figured into their profit structure????

DCAMFranklin · July 29, 2003 7:36AM

<< I would accept PCGS putting their problem coins in a slab, BUT the slab should have a VERY distinctly DIFFERENT color label and font from their regular slabbed coins. Anyone going to a show should immediately be able to see the difference. This action would give the customer, at least some value for the grading fee he has paid and it still would not distroy the VERY important fact that owners of coins in slabbed PCGS holders can at least perceive that they have a marketable coin. JMHO. Steve

>>

Steve- I completely agree with your response. A well thought out response. Yes, someone can turn to ANACS for a net grade. Yet, how many end up sending a coin(s) to ANACS, as the result of a BB from PCGS? I believe a very large number, especially among those new to the hobby. So, someone with limited knowledge and often times limited financial resources, has to pay 2 grading fees to have the coin holdered.

Most likely, they have already taken a beating on the coin, as they didn't buy the coin as cleaned or altered surfaces. Even worse, often times that new collector's response to the BB, is to attempt to "dump it" on another unsuspecting, new collector! And the process begins anew.

So, wouldn't it be wonderful to have the coin placed in a readily identifiable, distinctly different, holder from PCGS and with only 1 grading fee paid? I believe so. Wouldn't it be better for the hobby if we didn't have inexperienced collectors attempting to "dump" problem coins on other inexperienced collectors? I believe so. How many people do you know that became disenchanted with the hobby, gave up on the hobby altogether, or gave up and came back many years later, as the result of getting burned by altered coins? I know a bunch!! How many never entered into the hobby, or did so with just a bit of effort, as the result of the horror stories expressed by those burned by altered coins? I think quite a few. By placing those coins in readily identifiable holders, I believe PCGS would be doing a great service for the hobby.

Just my opinion.

edit for spelling.

Cockney · July 29, 2003 7:40AM

Even if PCGS never net grades coins, I would still like a better explaination of the condition of the coin that caused it to be body bagged.

foodude · July 29, 2003 9:02AM

<< I would accept PCGS putting their problem coins in a slab, BUT the slab should have a VERY distinctly DIFFERENT color label and font from their regular slabbed coins. Anyone going to a show should immediately be able to see the difference. This action would give the customer, at least some value for the grading fee he has paid and it still would not distroy the VERY important fact that owners of coins in slabbed PCGS holders can at least perceive that they have a marketable coin. JMHO. Steve >>

I'm with Steve; else body bag it.

LucyBop · July 29, 2003 9:04AM

Don't they already net grade all coins from Marty AU58?

Askari · July 29, 2003 11:07AM

I’ve never been all that fond of net grading – the standards for this are even murkier than the usual market grading and, market-wise, a certain type of problem (like light cleaning) might be major on one series of coins, whereas it could be minor on another. I would prefer a details grade with a note on the problem factor(s).

On the other hand, I’ve always been fond of giving the customer the broadest practical range of choices. If people want to slab a “distressed” coin, let them have the option for a bodybag or a net-grade – with the latter in a distinctively different insert and/or slab. I’m not big on slabbing, but IMHO authentication is one of the best reasons for submitting a coin to a TPG and a much more important consideration on a heavily counterfeited coin than an old light cleaning that has nice retoned.

MacCoin · July 29, 2003 11:14AM

net grade I don't need to get it back in a flip. I can do that myself PCGS are grader put a grade event if it is a problem coin just be honest.

Garneteye · July 29, 2003 1:21PM

As a newby I would like to see any coin slabed and if it doesn't meet the grading standards then simply state the problems that the coin has. It doesn't need a net grade- its a problem coin. This would be a help in learning how to grade, kind of like a reverse standard. put in the same type of slab for uniformity but with a different color label(red?) so there is no confusion

Dan

ohbaby · July 29, 2003 1:25PM

Let's leave PCGS as the leader and NGC a close second.

We already have net graders like PCI and ANACS.

And if you wish to buy a grade, ACG.

I wanted to be assured if I am buying a PCGS or NGC I am getting something close to a quality product. Right now with the others it is a crap shoot.

dbldie55 · July 29, 2003 1:45PM

I pay for the holder, why not put the coin in one? (unless counterfeit) They did it on that off center Large Cent (by mistake), but that is what I would want. As for knowing what you are paying for, it would be exactly detailed on the insert.

I did ask this on the Q&A forum quite a while ago. DH said they asked their dealers this question, and the overwhelming response was no. Of course, they wouldn't grade a clad coin at that time too, so who knows.

Coin Finder · July 29, 2003 3:07PM

Bag um!

Net grading coins is confusing. If it is in a bag, you have to figure it out and you become smarter.

Tbig

haletj · July 29, 2003 3:33PM

Some of you are too hard on problem coins. Yes, some are junk, but I've seen some coins body bagged that had absolutely trivial problems. Certainly a very lightly cleaned but natural looking to the naked eye 27-s quarter is not a piece of junk! I agree that ALL problems no matter how trivial should be noted, but I think there are a lot of nice collectable problem coins out there. I own several in segs holders and I love them. I wish they could be pcgs and count for the registry too.

Steve27 · July 29, 2003 9:15PM

PCGS already net grades, they just have to be coins from 1840 or earlier. Thus, the question should be why don't they always net grade?

Gilbert · July 29, 2003 9:28PM

As long a an adequate description of any issues is included with any "bodybag," I'll pass on netgrading.

As for the PCGS already netgrades pre 1840 coins, not sure I agree with that one. Market grade, yes - netgrade, not sure as I don't own any coins with "problems" indicated on the slab, i.e., previously cleaned OR light wipe, etc.

Cam40 · July 29, 2003 9:34PM

depends on the coin. common stuff always gets net graded or tech graded.
other `in-demand`coins get the market grading.

also, i do disagree with plastic baggie return holders. they should ,at the very least, give you an airtite
for your $30 if they arent going to slab it.

cosmicdebris · July 29, 2003 11:02PM

Interesting 60/40 split for so far.

cosmicdebris · July 30, 2003 6:34AM

Keep the votes coming!

KlectorKid · July 30, 2003 6:36AM

Why net grade I'm just going to crack it out put it on e-bay and not mention the problem in the description anyways.

Flash · July 30, 2003 12:51PM

My answer was not one of the choices given. I think PCGS should definitely NOT give coins net grades but should, however, slab all coins sent to them for certification if the coin is genuine. Coins that would otherwise be slabbed if not for certain problems, such as cleaning or artificial toning, should not be returned in bodybags. They should be slabbed with no grade given and the problem noted on the label.

The label might read something like this: 1913 5 Cents (Liberty) Genuine- Cleaned

cosmicdebris · August 3, 2003 8:17AM

Let's make sure everyone gets their vote in.

DCAMFranklin · August 3, 2003 8:37AM

As anticipated.

Shamika · August 3, 2003 8:44AM

I like the idea that Flash posted.

VamCollector · August 3, 2003 8:54AM

<< depends on the coin. common stuff always gets net graded or tech graded.
other `in-demand`coins get the market grading.

also, i do disagree with plastic baggie return holders. they should ,at the very least, give you an airtite
for your $30 if they arent going to slab it. >>

Or at least give a partial refund of the grading fee if the coin is not slabbed. I've never figured out why they don't do that other than its easier to just keep it all.

ConstellatioCollector · August 3, 2003 8:57AM

I agree about the Airtite but then the price of grading would probably would rise.

Gilbert · August 3, 2003 9:56AM

<< << depends on the coin. common stuff always gets net graded or tech graded. other `in-demand`coins get the market grading.

Or at least give a partial refund of the grading fee if the coin is not slabbed. I've never figured out why they don't do that other than its easier to just keep it all. >>

VamCollector,
It that first statement a quote from someone else? How can a coin be net graded and technically graded? My impression is that a netgrade is more synonymous with market grade and technical grade. Please note I said more, not "synonymous.

I do agree though that if the coin isn't slabbed, PCGS could refund or credit the cost of a slab (the amount they would charge if I were replacing a scratched up slab).

MacCoin · August 3, 2003 12:08PM

<< I'm just going to crack it out put it on e-bay and not mention the problem >>

see this makes me think it should be net graded. I buy a problem coin I like to know it and what the probelm is.

PCGS & Net Grading (The Poll)

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PCGS &amp; Net Grading (The Poll)

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PCGS & Net Grading (The Poll)