I KNEW THESE CLOWNS WOULD BECOME GREEDY

pontiacinf · July 13, 2003 6:34AM

HOPE HE GETS UNDER 100...ALL ITS REALLY WORTH

ksteelheader · July 13, 2003 6:45AM

I don't want it...Ken

jonesy · July 13, 2003 6:49AM

Seems like that would be illegal if not unethical!!

4thStooge · July 13, 2003 7:04AM

A totally honest auction starting at $1.00 with a return privilege. No problems there. The only problem is the petty carping by PCGS board members about nothing.

cherrypickincoin · July 13, 2003 7:11AM

I presume if this coin was in a PCGS slab none of you would be complaining, right? Interesting...do any of you actually buy coins now or are you all plastic nuts?

jonesy · July 13, 2003 7:14AM

I wouldn't buy it if it was in a PCGS slab. Self promoting to make money this way is cheap. This is as if some people thought Homerun Hall was doing. But David's not!!

jonesy · July 13, 2003 7:15AM

BTW, I do buy the coin, not the Signature!!

K6AZ · July 13, 2003 7:16AM

I don't see anything wrong here. The seller is Daniel Carr himself, who designed the RI quarter. He also designed the Maine quarter.

pontiacinf · July 13, 2003 7:16AM

first of all, nevermind stooge...still trying ta figure out what his agenda is...

as for Mr Carr...no, i agree nada wrong, and if these were PCGS wouldnt make a dog gone bit of diff...these were put out to make suckers outta people, it worked (my case

) but anyhow, my point is ICG did this telling mr carr he'd get rich...heres the note i sent him:

starting to notice what these things are really worth now eh?..ICG story fading quick?...good cause I lost just as much if not more on your signed junk.

and eric i respect your opinion...but this whole sig series was shame from day 1....those things were pumped out at 149.00 a pr....unfortunately and yes i am bitter I bit on more than one of these..but Im pissed cause I was a beginner back then, how many others got sucked up?

jeffnpcb · July 13, 2003 7:17AM

It's at $130. and going!

jonesy · July 13, 2003 7:18AM

<< This is THE one and only ICG signature series 2001-S Rhode Island clad proof quarter, serial number 00001 (as pictured). The hand-written signature is by the coin's designer - Daniel Carr (me), and it is sealed inside the tamper-proof holder. >>

Yeah, One of 10,000!!

CoinManiac527 · July 13, 2003 7:18AM

Now I don't know David Carr, but I wouldnt be surprised if he was a 'starving artist.' Give this guy a break! He probably needs to make money anyway he can. Its not like hes forcing people to buy them, hes only offering them for sale.

Jeez...

DennisH · July 13, 2003 7:21AM

I don't want the coin either, and I don't believe the grade.

But I applaud the man for his marketing savvy and wish him well in what, by every appearance, is a totally legitimate and no-strings auction.

I choose to waste my money on Morgan dollars, and that's my business alone. Last time I checked, none of us had the right to pass judgement on what another person chooses to blow their money on.

pontiacinf · July 13, 2003 7:23AM

wow i hope what i thought i saw going on amoungst those bids isnt really happening..

anyone else notice something really funky?

vrtech99 · July 13, 2003 7:50AM

How does that happen pontiac?

DCAMFranklin · July 13, 2003 8:23AM

<< A totally honest auction starting at $1.00 with a return privilege. No problems there. The only problem is the petty carping by PCGS board members about nothing. >>

Yup!

Just like EVP said about Laura's color ASE. If you don't the coin, then don't bid on the it. So what's YOUR agenda? All this signature crap was started by HRH with the Gerald Ford coins, the Director of the Mint Sacs and I'm sure there are others that escape me currently. Personally, I'd like to see the quarter designers make a little money for their effort. I sure don't see anything wrong with the auction.

joeyuk · July 13, 2003 8:53AM

I have bought off Mr. Carr in the past and was completly satisfied. I later found out who he is and that only made it interesting. Just as a preson is offered stock options they can do what they like with so is he. I do not feel a piece of paper with his sig. on it makes it any more valuable but if someone else does they have to live with it. As already stated low starting bid, good return policy no problem. And besides wasn't it Collectors Universe that profited from the WTC encapsulated coins? Money controls the game but you do not have to participate. Joe

FatMan · July 13, 2003 9:03AM

Did someone mention clowns and greed. I'm afraid ICG has plenty of competition.

millennium · July 13, 2003 9:12AM

Something about the pot and the kettle and the color black......

Tassa · July 13, 2003 9:34AM

Am I missing something here? What is the problem with the auction? How is it much different than an artist selling his own work?

TWQG · July 13, 2003 9:58AM

Looks like a neat conversation piece.
Please explain the 'clowns' and 'greedy', I don't see it.

Bear · July 13, 2003 10:27AM

Now boys and girls, play nice. Monday is close at hand and if we are all

good little children, we may have a nice new story from Coinalot, by Sir Carl of Clank.

Coulport · July 13, 2003 10:35AM

"Clowns and Greedy" would certainly apply to those buying these thinking they could make a profit reselling.

Oops, did the original poster infer that?

stujoe · July 13, 2003 10:37AM

<< Am I missing something here? What is the problem with the auction? How is it much different than an artist selling his own work? >>

Or an athlete signing cards, baseballs, whatever at a show? They aren't doing it for the heck of it.

I had Randy L'Teton autograph a 2x2 with a Sackie in it at a show once. I figure she wasn't there just for the fun of it, either. She was getting something out of the deal. Again, I don't see a problem with it.

sinin1 · July 13, 2003 1:11PM

I was at a coin show a few months ago and was talking to a dealer about some scores -

He said his best score was at an estate sale, bought a picture frame for 50 cents - after cleaning the glass he saw a 1938 proof Jefferson and a certificate signed by Felix Schlag saying this was ??/out of 2000.

He said he mentioned it to somebody from the Jefferson club and they offered him $2000 for it - he likes it and is gonna keep it awhile.

30 years from now, this may be the same type of thing - who knows?? or maybe like a beenie baby.

JLW · July 13, 2003 1:16PM

<< Am I missing something here? What is the problem with the auction? How is it much different than an artist selling his own work? >>

Nothing wrong with it as far as I can tell, let the market decide the value.
Joe

dcarr · July 13, 2003 3:00PM

I am the person running the auction in question. I would like to clarify a few things. I won't go into all the details as to why I came to do the signed quarters. Suffice to say that I wasn't getting any credit or acknowledgement from the press or government officials that my designs were used for the NY and RI state quarters. The ICG signature deal was never about the money for me, although that was a bonus. The main reason I did it was so that people would know who the real designers of the state quarters were (and not just the NY and RI state quarters).

I never had any say in what the coins sold for. The retail dealers who were selling them initially had the $500 Goodacre Sacagawea dollars on their mind when they started selling the signature quarters at over $100. I would have preferred that they sell them for a more reasonable price (like $10 each). Actually, I regret that some dealers charged that much for them. I would get a couple dollars each as a royalty - it didn't matter how much a dealer charged for them - I'd get the same either way. And that would still have been a very lucrative deal for me, except that no where near 10000 of any type have actually been (or will be) issued.

Part of the deal with ICG stated that I would get a few of the low numbered PDS NY and RI coins, and a batch in the 200-300 serial number range.

So I decided to sell the low-numbered proofs that I had, along with other coins, to help fund a business I'm trying to get off the ground. Selling signed quarters isn't much different than a painter selling signed limited-edition prints of a painting, as far as I'm concerned. So I'm not asking a high price for them, I'm just selling them for whatever someone wants to bid.

A couple months ago I had a batch of ICG P&D signature quarters from NY, RI and other states that I got in trade. I sold them all on eBay as dutch auctions at $13.75 per pair (P&D). Some were bid up to $15. I think that is a fair price. Except for the few low numbered signature quarters, I've never sold any signature quarters above $7.50 each.

cherrypickincoin · July 13, 2003 3:08PM

Keep up what you're doing dcarr. Don't let these folks get ya down.

wallstreetman · July 13, 2003 3:09PM

Oh ya, Its never about the money!

Remember, you can fool man but you cant fool God!

I dont care how much you make, just tell the truth!

cherrypickincoin · July 13, 2003 3:15PM

What kind of crock is this? Get real people. This man has a legitimate right, given to him by the people that founded this great nation to sell whatever the heck he wants to and if it is worth that much to someone else, so be it. Every single one of us has our trade in life that someone else may not think is so important. Coins are a luxury that we're lucky we're able to obtain and afford. There are thousands of people starving and we're sitting here on a Sunday night whining about a man's right to make a living on a coin that he designed?

Again I ask you what the difference is when you crackout a coin hoping for a regrade. Is this unethical? No, it's business! Are you going to give some guy a chair at the same cost you bought it at for wholesale or are you going to be a smart businessman and make some profit for yourself so you can let your wife and children have a nice place to stay and a meal every night. There is a HUGE difference between being an outright fraud, unethical person and making money legitimately. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what this man is doing. Rock on my friend!

dcarr · July 13, 2003 3:19PM

<< Oh ya, Its never about the money!

Remember, you can fool man but you cant fool God! >>

How would you feel if two of your designs were used verbatim on state quarters and the US Mint and state goverments refused to mention your name, gave the design credit to someone else, declined to send you a "thank you" letter, and wouldn't return your phone calls ?

That's what happened.

BTW, I think the Mint is currently under much better management with Ms. Fore at the helm than it was with Johnson as director.

Oldtrader3 · July 13, 2003 3:22PM

I bought a 6 coin set of Collector's Universe (PCGS)-Artist's Edition, Bicentennial Business Strike, clad coins, signed by the Artists. The coins are not graded, but are mostly MS64/65, and are serial numbered (i.e. #00055 of 10,000). Do they/will they ever have any collector value? They detract from my normal collecting efforts and I would just a soon sell them.

lava · July 13, 2003 4:19PM

I miss the rarity of this coin, albeit a not so novel attempt, even though it is numbered #1 in the grouping.

JR · July 13, 2003 4:22PM

dcarr,

You're not doing a thing wrong - though there always seem to be a few who will claim you are.

Congratulations on your coin designs, and I hope you manage to make a few dollars for your efforts.

Best Regards,

Jim

northcoin · July 13, 2003 4:29PM

dcarr - thanks for posting and adding the information. Since you didn't self-advertise, let me note for you that you have a number of other auctions listed for other low numbered coins you designed at prices much less than $100 as they stand now. I agree that a number one of 1000 or 10,000 is a unique item worth a premium - especially if it in fact was the first one off the die. Do you happen to know if the sequential numbering is in fact the sequence these came off the original die? Of equal interest would be any sketches or drawings you did in preparation for the subject coin designs. Are such available for direct purchase or auction? Feel free to PM me. By the way those were nice designs and thanks for contribuing to the coined art of the United States.

Cam40 · July 13, 2003 4:49PM

Ya ,Sure seems like a lot of bickering going on these days here.

My theory is that this IS the face of the average coin collector.

Everyone wants to haggle over one thing or the other.

Man .It aint fun sometimes.

edited......whooopsy. A whole page I hadnt read?

dcarr · July 13, 2003 5:13PM

Northcoin,

Thanks, I couldn't figure out how to send you an email (no profile icon in your post).

The ICG coins are not in die-struck order. The serial numbers are more or less just the order in which the coins are encapsulated. The signature quarters come from the same sources as most other coins - proof sets and bags from the US Mint and banks.

Regarding original drawings of the designs -
I sold a couple of the preliminary sketches on eBay a couple years ago. I do still have (and intend to keep) the final ink drawings that I did for both coins. I sumitted photocopies of those drawings to the Mint.
Here is a page that shows the drawings:

NY and RI drawings

JR · July 13, 2003 5:21PM

dcarr,

If you look at a member’s post in the upper right hand corner, you will see an icon of a lock/padlock (just to the right of the eyeglass icon). Click on that lock in the post of the member you wish to send a PM (Private Message) to, and you will get a field to fill out for said message. The name of the person you are PMing should also appear at the top of the field after you click on the lock.

Jim

(edited to add): You must be logged in before you can send or receive Private Messages. Look for the Login under the top of the page navigation drop down menu. Since you were able to post, you must have been logged in at the time.
(edited again to add); If you still have problems or have any questions, please feel free to email me - Randolphjo@aol.com and I could walk you through the process.

Cam40 · July 13, 2003 5:43PM

I think I can speak for alot of us here in saying how honored we are to have you on the CU forums
with us.

I personally think your SQ designs are excellent and among the very best designs out there.

I remember how excited I was to get some BU rolls of the RI SQs and seeing them today I still
have that `collector rush` when viewing one in high MS condition.

I hope to see more of your designs as the SHQ program moves forward.

Cheers David.

jonesy · July 13, 2003 7:50PM

After seeing Daniel's post, my sig line speaks loudly. I was wrong.

Welcome to the fold Daniel!!

dorkkarl · July 13, 2003 9:49PM

blah blah blah, babble babble babble, the same old thing, a bunch of babble-heads whining & complaining about other people's alleged agendas, when they have not the slightest clue what they're babbling about.

nothing in the slightest wrong w/ this auction, far as i'm concerned. personally, "signature-stupidity" coins make me blow chunks, but it's not for me to say who can collect what. i applaud mr. carr's efforts.

K S

Louis · July 13, 2003 10:10PM

I see nothing wrong with this. He is listing an item and letting the market decide it's worth. Nobody is being deceived.
I remember a story about an artist (Pablo Picasso I believe) paying for everything with personal checks and the majority of them would never get cashed because they would be kept for the signature.

pontiacinf · July 14, 2003 5:27AM

again, first hello Daniel

and Like I said...it isnt Daniel or his auction...it was the sleazey way ICG did the whole fiasco.

I hope you do well Daniel...but for compensation, next time ask for worthwhile slabs with your name.

DCAMFranklin · July 14, 2003 5:37AM

<< dcarr,

You're not doing a thing wrong - though there always seem to be a few who will claim you are.

Congratulations on your coin designs, and I hope you manage to make a few dollars for your efforts.

Best Regards,

Jim >>

I will second that opinion.

northcoin · July 14, 2003 7:13AM

dcarr - to check your personal messages click on the the little lock icon up in the left hand corner of the screen.

wallstreetman · July 14, 2003 7:24AM

ICGs opinion is a joke, why is it they and the other sub-standard companies have all the 70s? I guess thats what makes them sub-standard! My other question is, why would anyone want to put their name on them? Dcarr, did you contract with PCGS? I wouldnt know because I dont buy into these!

Hey, Im a pretty good artist, maybe I should submit some designs!

MrEureka · July 14, 2003 8:08AM

I just bid $200 for the thing. I hope none of you have a problem with that.

TWQG · July 14, 2003 8:23AM

<< I just bid $200 for the thing. I hope none of you have a problem with that. >>

I do. It was one cent over my high bid.

MrEureka · July 14, 2003 8:33AM

I do. It was one cent over my high bid.

Don't sweat it. You had no shot.

In fact, I'll bet anyone a beer (payable at Baltimore) that the coin will sell for at least double my $200 bid. I'll take the first ten bets confirmed in the thread anytime before midnight. No PM's on this special offer, please.

solid · July 14, 2003 10:18AM

Hi Daniel, nice to see you on the boards here. I remember your original pencil
drawing auction for the NY quarter design you held on ebay a couple years ago.
I bid on that piece, but it went for more than I could afford at the time.

I did manage to win one each of your signed NY P&D quarter rolls. I believe you
sold ten of each of these...can you confirm that number?

Thanks again, and good luck with your auctions!

Ken

P.S. It's a shame the US Mint is not giving you the credit you deserve for your contributions!

dcarr · July 14, 2003 10:36AM

<< I did manage to win one each of your signed NY P&D quarter rolls. I believe you
sold ten of each of these...can you confirm that number?

Thanks again, and good luck with your auctions!

Ken

P.S. It's a shame the US Mint is not giving you the credit you deserve for your contributions! >>

Thanks,

I only signed a few rolls, 10 or less of each kind. I haven't signed any for a couple years and I'm not signing any more.

PS: The Mint did eventually issue a very short press release which acknowleged that I was the designer. That was after Coin World started hounding them for info relating the the signed quarters. But I have no grudge against the Mint. I was honored to be one of the people they contacted a few months ago for thoughts on the state quarter design process. I told them that I would gladly sign any agreement not to get involved in the marketing of such coins if I had the opportunity to work on any more coins for the Mint. Since then, director Fore has announced plans for an "Artist Infusion Program". I'm hoping I might be one of the artists invited to be in that program, but I haven't heard anything yet.

I KNEW THESE CLOWNS WOULD BECOME GREEDY

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