ICG vs PGCS

Paluka · July 2, 2003 6:04AM

Ok I am looking for the pros and cons between ICG and PCGS when grading 1936-current us coins.
What are your experiences? I have pruchased both along with some David Hall coins.

Russ · July 2, 2003 6:06AM

ICG grading is much looser than PCGS grading.

Russ, NCNE

cherrypickincoin · July 2, 2003 6:08AM

My opinion.

ICG:

Grading: 7.0
Holder: 7.0
Turnaround: 7.5
Customer Service: 7.0
Marketability: 6.0
Total: 69%

PCGS:

Grading: 9.0
Holder: 9.5
Turnaround: 7.0
Customer Service: 7.5
Marketability: 9.5
Total: 85%

That's my unscientific opinion.

Paluka · July 2, 2003 6:11AM

I believe that I have an MS67 and it looks like a 64/65 at best. Jefferson does not have bag marks on his face he looks like he cut himself shaving!
http://forums.collectors.com//attachments/1950ICG Nickel.jpg

NumisEd · July 2, 2003 6:12AM

ICG stands for "I Can't Grade", despite what the guy with the beanie always says in ICG's constant Coin World advertisement about how ICG was rated better than PCGS on an ebay forum. What the ad doesn't say is that the forum poll consisted of 3 ebay members. Real scientific.

cherrypickincoin · July 2, 2003 6:12AM

You believe you have a 67 but it looks 64/65 at best? Can you help me sort this one out? I be a little confused. Does the holder say 67?

flaminio · July 2, 2003 6:14AM

Do you really think you're going to get unbiased opinions of ICG on the PCGS board?

Anyways, here's my one-data point opinion:

http://www.flaminio.com/temp/wash.htm

NumisEd · July 2, 2003 6:17AM

flaminio, that's a cool image. Can't believe that you paid to have a $3 coin certified 4 times, but you were probably doing it just to compare services.

Paluka · July 2, 2003 6:17AM

All I can hope for is honesty and I have heard many negs about PGCS grading on this forum so far. Most of the coins I send to PCGS can't make it over the MS66 hump.

LiberalMan461 · July 2, 2003 6:17AM

My opinion:

ICG:
Grading: 4.0
Holder: 7.5
Turnaround: 7.5
Customer Service: 8.0
Marketability: 3.0
Total: 60%

PCGS:
Grading: 7.0
Holder: 5.0
Turnaround: 2.5
Customer Service: 1.5
Marketability: 7.5
Total: 47%

The problem is that not all of these are weighted equally so those totals aren't accurate!!!

flaminio · July 2, 2003 6:21AM

<< flaminio, that's a cool image. Can't believe that you paid to have a $3 coin certified 4 times, but you were probably doing it just to compare services. >>

Well, I bought it in the PCI holder, so I only paid for three certs

. But you're right -- doing it just for my own comparison, and not for any profit motive (obviously).

For my next trick, I want to send it to NCS to clean (er... curate) the spots off, and then into an NGC holder.

Russ · July 2, 2003 6:23AM

LiberalMan461,

How'd you escape from the open forum?

Russ, NCNE

Shamika · July 2, 2003 6:23AM

I've looked at probably 200 MS67RD Lincolns in ICG slabs and with the exception of one, they all looked MS64RD to MS66RD.

Very bad!

Shamika · July 2, 2003 6:26AM

flaminio,

That's a nice case study. Let us know how NGC does.

LiberalMan461 · July 2, 2003 6:40AM

<< LiberalMan461,

How'd you escape from the open forum?

Russ, NCNE >>

I collect cards and coins!!!

ksteelheader · July 2, 2003 7:44AM

NumisEd · July 2, 2003 8:17AM

I enjoy debates on politics, world affairs, pork vs chicken,

Hey LiberalMan, didn't your boy Slick Willie Clinton pork some chicken named Monica in the Oval Office? Or should we call it the Oral Office. Democrats suck.

DCAMFranklin · July 2, 2003 8:43AM

Too funny!

coinkat · July 2, 2003 8:55AM

NumisEd:

Let's save politics for the Open Forum...

ohbaby · July 2, 2003 9:00AM

Paluka,

Everyone has an opinion on slabbing services. I have no agenda, I feel PCGS is tops and NCG a close second. Are there other slabbers out there? None I would use nor buy their slabs. But I don't count.

Take your ICG slabs to any coin show and see what kind of offers you get for your coins. You can then develop your own opinion. Enough said!

poptopsRus · July 2, 2003 9:05AM

Judge the coin on it's own merits, not the plastic.

wingedliberty · July 2, 2003 9:22AM

Hey Liberalman:
Since you're a liberal man and believe in wealth and income re-distribution and you rate ICG over PCGS, does that mean that you believe in grade re-distribution also?

Brian (Republican because I believe in personal and financial responsibility and because I love God and this blessed land. Republican because I believe in the party of Lincoln in freeing the slaves and not enslaving minorities through oppresive social affirmative action. Republican because I believe that in a free market, the consumer will select quality , and the numismatic consumer has chosen PCGS and NGC over ICG, Republican because I believe that a B1 bomber is a better investment than planed parenthood and abortion clinics, Republican because I love this country.)

Oh, this is not a political board, almost forgot,
We now return you to numismatics.

Brian.

Oldtrader3 · July 2, 2003 9:36AM

ICG is pretty inconsistant (on the low side) and generally about 1-2 grades off comparable PCGS coins. Attached is a ICG-MS67 War Nickel that is at least close to marked grade. I would guess that it might grade MS66 on a good day. Take a look. I have only had one ICG coin cross higher and that was a ICG-MS62, 1924 Saint that crossed MS64. That is the only ICG coin that I have ever had that luck with however.

wallstreetman · July 2, 2003 9:50AM

NumisEd, your just jealous of Clinton, youd trade shoes with him anytime! One of the most intelligent presidents we ever had!

NumisEd · July 2, 2003 9:54AM

wallstreetman, the only thing that Clinton has over me is that he gets more women that I do. So, yeah, I guess I am a bit jealous.

MacCrimmon · July 2, 2003 9:58AM

<< didn't your boy Slick Willie Clinton pork some chicken named Monica >>

A correction is in order with NumisEd's statement; to wit; Clinton porked a PIG named Monica, but he said he only "choked" his ch!cken !!

....what WingedLiberty said !!!

As a said on the darkside about LieberalMan......

at least the jacka$$ learned his lesson after the first LIE!.

DSH1963 · July 2, 2003 10:33AM

HEY
ICG TO PCGS 3 OF 4 CROSSED
ICG TO NGC 13 OF 15 CROSSED
These were Morgans
By the coin not the holder
hope this helps a little.
thanks DAVID

jdimmick · July 2, 2003 10:35AM

In my experience and Opinion, ICG grades mintstate coins about 1 to 2 points higher than PCGS, especially in post 1900 issues. Most of these coins will not cross from ICG to PCGS in the same grade level. (And that is breaking them out)

In the lower circulated grades, the grading is closer to PCGS standards ,(but not quite there consistently)

docday2003 · July 2, 2003 10:40AM

<< I enjoy debates on politics, world affairs, pork vs chicken,

Hey LiberalMan, didn't your boy Slick Willie Clinton pork some chicken named Monica in the Oval Office? Or should we call it the Oral Office. Democrats suck. >>

I'm Canadian, so I don't get a vote - but if I did, that Clinton would have hung. what a disgrace!

docday2003 · July 2, 2003 10:43AM

<< wallstreetman, the only thing that Clinton has over me is that he gets more women that I do. So, yeah, I guess I am a bit jealous. >>

Mind you, Clinton believed in quantity instead of quality. I would rather have my wife than all of his skanks combined!

presleyh · July 2, 2003 11:22AM

Liberalman will you be voting for Mrs Clinton next time around? After all Gore didnt even carry his home state of Tennessee last time, We just know the Gore family too well down here. It will be hard to choose a Demo this time I think every body over the age of 34 is running for Pres on the Demo ticket. Hmmm lets see gay rights, abortion rights, welfare entitlements, tax and spend, tax the rich (that's anybody over 25,000 a year to you democrats). Oh yeah now I remember why I voted REPUBLICAN last time.

By the way thats an interesting comparison between the grading services. Pci at ms69? Its a wonder they didnt call it a proof 69 dcam.

boz · July 2, 2003 12:41PM

Clinton

ICG

PCGS

robertpr · July 2, 2003 1:42PM

Clinton...Gore...come to think of it I'm not sure which of the two embarrassed this country the most. Oh yes and lets not forget Hillary, whos recent book was ghost written by five different authors because she couldn't make the deadline alone. No no, I'm sure it's all true though, just like everything else that comes out of a democrat's mouth.

Paluka · July 2, 2003 2:07PM

Dare I throw "PCI" into the mix for this forum???
Paluka loves the talk!

mdwoods · July 2, 2003 2:12PM

ICG is a lot like Monica, they both su..

dorkkarl · July 2, 2003 9:26PM

if your talking GRADES only, i rate pcgs right up there w/ icg. coincidentally, anacs, pci, acg, ngc, segs, ntc, i rate them all the same - FOR GRADING PURPOSES ONLY. that's because i ignore the holder & just buy what i like

K S

BillJones · July 2, 2003 10:21PM

In the beginning ICG made an honest effort to be a top grading service. But when they failed to crack the market quickly, they lapsed back into a third class service.

I treat their coins as I would raw coins. The holder does not mean squat, and it's not at all marketable. I've also seen ICG make some major errors in die variety attributions that would have cost collectors many hundreds of dollars if he did check out the variety for himself.

MadMonk · July 2, 2003 10:35PM

<< ICG stands for "I Can't Grade", despite what the guy with the beanie always says in ICG's constant Coin World advertisement about how ICG was rated better than PCGS on an ebay forum. What the ad doesn't say is that the forum poll consisted of 3 ebay members. Real scientific. >>

Does the poll say if these were submitters? I can imagine that they were getting back higher grades, were happy, so to them, ICG rules!

bushmaster8 · July 2, 2003 11:03PM

I always thought ICG stands for IDIOT COIN GRADING service.

ICG sucks donkey wad!

LiberalMan461 · July 3, 2003 7:53AM

A fellow user asks for personal opinions on two coin grading companies and I give an opinion!!!

Then a bunch of other members turn this into a thread taking personal shots at me for my political views and making political statements!!! Ridiculous!!!

Is that what this forum is about???

Since when has CU allowed the hooligans to run wild in this forum instead of talking coins??? It's getting as bad in here as it is in the Card forums!!!

Perhaps if you can't stay on topic and refrain from filling this forum with personal attacks you shouldn't be posting here??? Try the test ing forum!!!

Baley · July 3, 2003 8:09AM

Liberalman, you draw fire because of your name and signature line with anti-Republican logo.

As for ICG, I own 2 coins in their holders, one minted in 1812 graded MS62
<----

and one minted in 2000 graded in MS69:

I am satisfied with the grading of both coins.

EVillageProwler · July 3, 2003 8:24AM

Ok I am looking for the pros and cons between ICG and PCGS when grading 1936-current us coins.

Paluka,

I gather that this is a serious inquiry on your part, so I'll refrain from going O/T unlike some others...

The moderns (which we can define for this thread as 1936 - present) market is filled with coins that are conditionally significant at very high grades (or not even) and coins whose primary value is supported by the holder (outside of which you lose over 50% of its value).

At seriously lofty grades, like 67+, the qualitative difference is much tighter between grades but is inversely proportional to the value difference. Since the qualitative difference is so much tighter at that grade level, you can reasonably assume that the graders operate with a greater relative (to the lower grades) standard deviation.

The market strongly suggests that PCGS operates within tighter parameters than all other services, including ICG, PCI, et al. The market also strongly allocates a more significant price premium to the PCGS brand. You can decide if it's the veracity of the first that fuels the second, or the successful marketing for the second that forces the opinion of the first...

In any case, the presumption is that a service like ICG -- for the moderns market, like you asked -- is looser than PCGS. Thus, you have the potential for a far greater negative swing in pricing and volatility of your coins. This is a huge con for ICG compared to PCGS.

However, you must also heed the wisdom of forum members who urge you to buy the coin, not the holder. Thus, you can get excellent, eye appealing specimens in lesser-tier slabs at a discount if you are careful. This is a huge pro...

Hope this helps,

EVP

LiberalMan461 · July 3, 2003 8:38AM

<< Liberalman, you draw fire because of your name and signature line with anti-Republican logo. >>

I wasn't aware that CU required forum members to be conservatives and have conservative user names in order to avoid being attacked personally and have threads fly off topic!!!

Perhaps the people who run these forums can change my name??? Is ConservativeBushLover available??? Maybe then I wont have a bunch of hooligans go on the war path and we can talk coins???

flaminio · July 3, 2003 8:46AM

<< I wasn't aware that CU required forum members to be conservatives and have conservative user names in order to avoid being attacked personally and have threads fly off topic!!! >>

It doesn't. However, when you brandish your political affiliation so blatantly you gotta expect some flak from the other side.

To me, this is a coin forum. My politics have no business here, and my name and .sig reflect that.

LiberalMan461 · July 3, 2003 8:57AM

<< It doesn't. However, when you brandish your political affiliation so blatantly you gotta expect some flak from the other side. >>

I'm sorry that some people here find it necessary to derail coin related threads with politics just because they don't have the internal fortitude to refrain from making personal attacks because someone else has a political sig!!!

I am also sorry that apparently CU allows this!!!

Perhaps I should take my coin and card submission business elsewhere!!!

<< To me, this is a coin forum. My politics have no business here, and my name and .sig reflect that. >>

As do my posts!!!

ksteelheader · July 3, 2003 9:18AM

Adios!!!! Don't let the door hit you..............Ken

Baley · July 3, 2003 9:28AM

to derail coin related threads with politics

pray tell where your signature line belongs in a coin discussion?

look dood, if i wear a t-shirt around tomorrow that says F*@# America, I will not be surprised if I get some dirty looks at best, and beaten up severely at worst. In fact, I would deserve it.

By loudly and obnoxiously proclaiming
your political views in the signature line of every post, you invite right-thinking Americans to attack your lame, liberal, loser beliefs.

just my opinion

EVillageProwler · July 3, 2003 9:31AM

Adios!!!! Don't let the door hit you..............Ken

So, you're now the banner bearer of the Intolerant?!? Or, maybe CU dubbed you with special authority that no one else knows about?

No? Well, then I suggest that you show others every bit the courtesy that you would expect for yourself.

EVP

EVillageProwler · July 3, 2003 9:34AM

your political views in the signature line of every post, you invite right-thinking Americans to attack your lame, liberal, loser beliefs.

So, to be a Republican is to be "right-thinking" and to be otherwise is to be wrong thinking? If so, then you have a lot to learn about this country... One of the best things about this country is its commitment to diversity, of people and of ideas. This country is a democracy, with 250 million + people. We can't all think 100% alike.

EVP

ksteelheader · July 3, 2003 9:35AM

The guy shows his $%&*(^#@ and thinks this is OK, but no one should say anything! Bull !! And if anyone doesen't like it, tough!..
.....Ken

EVillageProwler · July 3, 2003 9:36AM

Moreover, I find the argument that anyone is entitled to attack someone else for a statement in that person's signature is ludicrous. Are we not adults here? When do we become responsible for our own actions?

EVP

ICG vs PGCS

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