New member question - Best Safes?

JustMakesCents · May 23, 2003 3:46AM

Any suggestions for the best home safes to use for coin storage?

I know that a bank box is probably the best solution, but I would prefer to be able to look at my coins whenever I want. Any members want to reveal their home setups? As a copper collector, I am especially looking for a safe where I can control the heat and humidity. Of course, has to fire and water resistant.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Jeff

nwcs · May 23, 2003 3:47AM

Welcome to the board! Though I cannot help you with safes.

topstuf · May 23, 2003 3:57AM

Call some lock shops. Safes are a glut on the market locally. (Rotten economy is closing many stores)

You want a minimum TL-30 which means it will resist a professional attempt to enter with tools for a minimum of 30 minutes. TL-60 is one hour, etc.

They are heavy. I keep MOST of my stuff in the bank, but, like you also like to have a few to fondle and chortle over. I also have a home alarm. They are both necessary.

Gun safes are very easy to get into. However, since it is now a CRIME to have a burglar steal your guns and shoot someone, anyone who has guns without a safe is nuts.

If you look for fire AND burglar resistant, you can get into some real money and will probably have to buy a new one. Figure $2500 for cost on new jeweler safe.

Personally am content with the BURGLAR resistant TL-30 and don't pack coins close to the edges. I doubt my house is sturdy enough to burn long enough to heat a safe to the degree necessary for damage to the coins.

Hmmm....wonder what it costs to reholder plastic blobs.

ElectricEye · May 23, 2003 4:28AM

A UL listed safe for fire is mandatory, a UL listed safe for burglary would be nice but is typically not necessary for a home collector. TL15, TL30, and TL60 or TXTL60 safes are commercial grade and usually considered overkill for home use. Gun safes are NOT easy to get into unless they are POS's like the Outdoorsman specials, Homaks, or other inferior makers. Your best bet is AMSEC residential security safes. Ninjas with cutting torches only attack targets worthy of attack. One of the best tips when owning a safe, don't tell everyone you know what kind of safe, where it is, and when you are going on vacation.

relayer · May 23, 2003 4:33AM

Check out the Sentry models

What's nice is if you take out the drawers you can fit 9 PCGS boxes in perfectly (2 rows of 3 and 1 row of 3 on their side).

JustMakesCents · May 23, 2003 4:44AM

Thanks for the informative replies so far. Any tips to keeping the humidity under control?

Jeff

MadMonk · May 23, 2003 4:51AM

<< <i>Thanks for the informative replies so far. Any tips to keeping the humidity under control?

Jeff >>

Occasionally open the door to let it air out.

jonesy · May 23, 2003 4:52AM

Welcome to the Forums JustMakesCents!!

baccaruda · May 23, 2003 5:04AM

i went to look at safes once.

i decided that if i had to sell all my coins for the money to buy a safe, then i wouldn't have anything to put in it anyway...

just bury them in the back yard.

maddogale · May 23, 2003 5:05AM

Gun safes are very easy to get into hmmm, I seriously doubt that unless you are talking about the $300 K-mart/Wal-Mart jobs. Mine is over 1000 lbs, with 1" hardened steel dead bolts throughout the door, and if some gene-pool reject wants to bore out the tumbler lock, WHAMMO!! the bolts are frozen into place in the locked position. I don't think any thief wants to mess with a QUALITY gun safe.

glassman · May 23, 2003 5:19AM

Here is another thought. I would avoid fire safes. They usually are made with a material that remains damp on the inside. This is to give papers a little more time before damage. NOT a good environment for coins. Some of the top line of gun safes have double locks ( a pro takes a few more minutes to get into). Mine had 16 1" locking bars, weighs 1700lbs (empty) and is bolted to the slab. With a trip mat in front. Never assume you have enough security.

I have a product by the trade name "Golden Rod" which is inside the safe and produces a small amount of heat to drive out moisture. A small wattage incandesent light bulb inside will also work.

relayer · May 23, 2003 5:24AM

Keep in mind that the first time a burglar breaks into your house he finds a safe he can't open.

But now a felon knows you have a safe with valuables in your house. After that any knock on your door could be a girl scout selling cookies, or the burglar back with a gun.

Safes only work the first time, then they become a liablity.

maddogale · May 23, 2003 5:27AM

But now a felon knows you have a safe with valuables in your house. After that any knock on your door could be a girl scout selling cookies, or the burglar back with a gun.

In which case, he is looking at the business end of an Anaconda.....AKA Colt .44 magnum!!

ksteelheader · May 23, 2003 5:29AM

I have and had a top of the line gun safe. Make sure you can put your safe somewhere that it will not spend too much time in the heat if your home should burn. This is experience talking. Put the safe in one of the corners of your home or in your basement.
Last August 8th my home burnt. The gun safe was basically in the middle of the house and spent about 20 minutes in the extreme heat. The guns were OK, but, have you ever seen a baked complete collection of Lincoln cents? Not a pretty sight. Just wanted to give a real life opinion......Ken

baccaruda · May 23, 2003 5:32AM

have you ever seen a baked complete collection of Lincoln cents?

I think tonecoin3000 may have a set like that.

Barry · May 23, 2003 5:42AM

Look under locksmith or safes in the yellow pages. If you want real security, don't buy any of the cheapies for sale at Staples, like Sentry. Don't buy a fire safe - the walls are filled with a moisture-laden material that will corrode your coins.

I bought a used safe from a lock shop. It cost me about 1/3 of what a new one runs. The safe is bolted to a concrete floor and it weighs about 1000 lbs! To keep the air inside the safe dry, I have several canisters of silica gel inside, which I recharge in the oven every few months.

JustMakesCents · May 23, 2003 5:52AM

Ken,

Sorry to hear about your loss. Thanks for the heads-up on the heat. I always figured the basement was the best place for a safe. What about a flooded basement (water pipe, sewer, etc.)? Anyone dealt with a safe under water?

Jeff

JOHNandBEA · May 23, 2003 5:57AM

I also am looking at safes, NEVER will I put them in a bank, enjoy them too much..........

Insurance coverage (State Farm) is only when they are locked with a "combination" and walls 1.5" thick.........

Still looking

Welcome

Good luck........

John

itsnotjustme · May 23, 2003 6:04AM

You can manage moisture level in fire resistant safes. Purchase packs of silica... these absorb moisture. Most change color so you know when they are saturated. You bake them in the over a couple hours to drive the moisture out, and after they cool return them to your safe. Also purchase a small thermometer/humidistat to monitor the conditions. These can be found at cigar stores for $20 or less, and often include a max/min memory so you know how you are doing.

I would want a safe that is heavy enough that two people would have a hard time moving it (of course a quality dolly can overcome this). If you are creative, you can hide it such as under a larger table that has a table cloth so visitors do not see it. Bedroom closets are probably the first place theives look.

supercoin · May 23, 2003 6:54AM

Be careful -- many fire-resistant safes exude moisture, as has been mentioned. I had one that was horrible, and no amount of silica would help. It had water-filled beads in the walls.

Fire-resistant safes made for guns, on the other hand, should be fine. Both guns and coins need a similar environment. Unfortunately you don't get as high levels of fire protection (unless you get into the really big bucks).

A good quality gun safe also gives you a lot of space per dollar, which is nice if you have a bulky collection or want to store other things in it. Like guns.

Although it has been mentioned here in the past that some gun cleaning products can cause a reaction on coins (hasn't been a problem for me, though).

satootoko · May 23, 2003 8:18AM

Floor safe in the garage, positioned where one of the tires of the car we're not using is planted right on top when we are on a trip. Lots and lots of silica gel, baked every couple of weeks. Under a high spot in the floor, so water from firefighters or storms will drain away from it. Second the motion on Amsec - best safes available without going to the high end jewler's safe level.

ksteelheader · May 23, 2003 8:35AM

Second the motion on Amsec ...I'll 3rd that motion.....Ken

styles · May 23, 2003 9:59AM

Although I'd love to be able to admire my stuff at will, I'm still of the safe deposit box at the bank category. It's starting to get expensive, and I find myself upgrading to bigger boxes (more money), but
I've been robbed once and never got over mourning the loss of those coins. Call me paranoid, but I
picture the thief just carrying the safe out with him to crack with his expert safecracking felons.
Sometimes I feel like a father with visitng rights with my coins in the bank though... go down there
when I can to view them, talk with them (Oh, you beautiful little baby, you!"), and generally just visit and
check over my inventory list. I just don't ever want to go through the experience of finding them stolen again.

rd5425 · May 23, 2003 10:17AM

In my opinion, owning a safe is just asking for trouble, unless you have coins that are worth millons I don't think a safe would really be neccesary, let me put it this way, if a burgler breaks into your house, comes in and sees a 1000 pound safe in your house, obviously hes gonna know you got something worth protecting, after all you did spend the money on this 1000 pound safe. Anyways, maybe the safe is impossible to break into, fire resistant, flood resistant, resistant to every tool a burgler has, but let me tell you what, when you have a gun pointed at the back of your head, that safe will fly open in 20 seconds and the thief will get everything he wanted. So I say forget the safe, a hole in your mattress will work just fine.

ElectricEye · May 23, 2003 7:33PM

fire resistant does not necessarily translate into moisture oozing ~ there are UL listed fire lined safes that DO NOT use the moisture retaining concrete (they use a wallboard like material to insulate) ~ btw, the moisture retaining concrete design releases the water as steam in order to cool the interior during a fire, not my choice in safe designs

~ the candybar size desicant bars with the color indicating eyes work best to keep the humidity down inside ~ as far as owning a safe causing "problems", don't over analyze, do what is comfortable for you...(a burglar is statistically a 20 minutes in and out opportunist hitting in the early am when he thinks the dwelling is empty) ~ I prefer an Amsec residential security container (RSC) that carries the 2 Hr. UL fire listing and a Glock model 20 (the little extra zing a full house 10mm load provides, reduces the chance of deflection off auto glass)

Zerbe · May 24, 2003 3:54AM

Believe it or not, most banks have vaults that can be compromised,(broken into, one way or other ). It is the BURGLAR ALARM that is the true deterrent and protector of the valuables. A jewelers safe with a cheap alarm system, is not as good as a walmart safe with a highend burglar alarm. This principle is most easily understood when you think what is {out in the open} in museums. Priceless objects, are protected by high tech security alarms with wireless and battery backup systems. A safe is good, but an alarm is safer!!

tgilliams · May 24, 2003 4:20AM

Any one have experience with fireproof Brinks.

tgilliams · May 24, 2003 4:26AM

The downside of Safe Deposits are twofold and may not effect many. But Safe Deposits are ceasable by govt, or lawsuits, etc, plus gets rather expensive. You never know when a situation like this will present itself. Just one downside, and some are not humidy controlled, which can damage coins.

ksteelheader · May 24, 2003 4:30AM

but let me tell you what, when you have a gun pointed at the back of your head, that safe will fly open in 20 seconds and the thief will get everything he wanted. ..Ain't gonna happen here. Would-be crooks with 40 bullet holes in them don't make much trouble...Ken

topstuf · May 24, 2003 6:36AM

That's why I said the safe is useless without the alarm. I have been ROBBED at gunpoint in my 1st coin shop and ...yes....you comply. I was armed too but guess what? When the bad guy has the drop on you, your gun is useless too.

That's also why I said MOST stuff belongs in the safe deposit box. If the administration usurps many more liberties and trashes much more of the Constitution, I may change my mind.

(are you aware that as of the past 2 weeks the cops no longer have to submit an affidavit to get a search warrant? they can NOW search anybody anywhere.......no reason. homeland security, you know)

Gun safes will NOT be entered by the door side. But if they do want to go in doorside, a hydraulic spreader (like a tire jack) will pop one in less than 30 seconds. Gun safes will keep out the neighbor's kid usually.

The TL-30 burglar safes are STIFF and heavy. They don't pop.

But "awareness" is the key. Like your coins? Then SHUT UP about having any to your RELATIVES.

Of all the burglars who sold or pawned at our pawn shop, over 90% were FAMILY (or invited assorted live-ins) We had very few as selling at a pawn shop is a very stupid thing to do with the paper trail we generated.

Flea markets are the chief outlet for stolen stuff. Stats are that less than 1/2 of one percent of stolen items goes to a reporting pawn shop.

Back to safe:
Coin value
$1000- Any safe you get is OK

1000-5000 Gun safe OK

5000 - 10000 TL rated box.

Over 10k............bank

topstuf · May 24, 2003 6:51AM

Don't think ANY bank offers insurance. Homeowner's rider with stipulation of bank box is cheap.

But homeowner's will NOt cover any lost from home except at additional cost.

Louietheo · May 31, 2019 10:43PM

First, highly recommend buying a used non-gun safe of various kinds on CL. There are old bank-vault type safes that provide more theft protection at a cheaper price than any gun safe you are probably looking at.

Second - personally, I think fire protection is overrated. Honestly, how worried are you about a fire at your house? How likely do you think that is? If you're thinking about documents, just get a small chest type fire rated "safe" and put your docs in that, and then put that in your gun safe.

If you're buying a gun safe like for example Sentry Safe https://beonhome.com/best-home-safe/ I would not get less than 10ga steel, and preferably not less than 8ga steel. Don't waste your time with huge safes that cost $800 and weigh 500 lbs. My *** has more steel in it than those things. I wouldn't buy a gun safe sized safe that weighs less than 1000 lbs, 900 absolute minimum, unless you're getting it for under $200 and just want to keep your kids out.

Curbside delivery is just like what it sounds. You and your buddies or a company you hire need to take it from there.

A safe is definitely worth it. It is really amazing to me will think nothing about spending $10,000 or more on guns and then balk at spending $2000 on a safe worth having. Would you leave $10K in cash lying around? No? Then why leave $10K in guns lying around?

winesteven · June 1, 2019 2:19AM

As noted above by others, have it bolted into the floor, preferably a cement slab. This way thieves breaking in when you are not home cannot carry it out to work on later with tools and plenty of time.
Have a good burglar alarm system, including motion detectors, wired to a company who will then call the police. I pay ADT $19 per month, NO charge for equipment or installation (this was a great deal I negotiated many years ago, and may not be currently available).
Have security cameras, so if your coins are stolen, you then have a slightly better chance of having the police catch them a bit quicker (maybe 😄).
The safe should be in an air conditioned part of your house to reduce humidity, but see #5 next.
Buy Eva-Dry model E-333. It’s a desiccant, but has colored beads, so you know when to dry it out. So about once a month you just take it out and instead of putting it in an oven, like other items, you plug it into an electric outlet for a short time to dry it out. It’s about 6”x5”x1” or so, and is currently on Amazon for only $14.97 with free Prime one-day shipping.

I hope members find this helpful.

PerryHall · June 1, 2019 2:35AM

This is a 16 year old thread. Is that some kind of record?

winesteven · June 1, 2019 2:45AM

@PerryHall said:
This is a 16 year old thread. Is that some kind of record?

Perhaps so, but thanks to new member @Louietheo, he dug it up, and hopefully the information will be useful to other members. I don’t think the info posted by our members 16 years ago is outdated.

ricko · June 1, 2019 4:00AM

@Louietheo ....Welcome aboard....Yep... definitely an OLD thread... but some good information for members who were not around 16 years ago. I will add that while a safe is good (I have a good safe), security is a matter of layers .... perimeter, internal etc. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall · June 1, 2019 4:11AM

Definitely a good thread with a lot of useful information. I had never seen it before since it was from before I joined here many years ago. If you do buy a fire safe I suggest it may be more practical to put your slab boxes and a silica gel pack into heavy duty plastic bags with a zip lock closure. Otherwise you'll have to recharge your silica gel pack dehumidifier every few days which can quickly become rather tedious.

thebeav · June 1, 2019 5:59AM

For many years (at least 30 yrs.) I had a giant, old two-door safe in a garage that was not waterproof at all. I put any coins in old 50 cal. ammo boxes. Never had a wilted 2 by 2 or saw any humidity damage of any kind.

ianrussell · June 1, 2019 9:34AM

Avoid gun safes or safes you can buy from hardware stores/Costco - most of those can be carried away intact.

Go to a proper safe company and look for TL-rated quality. They are much heavier. Yes, more expensive, but worth the extra money. You can usually be refurbished ones for less that come with a warranty. Also - hook up a monitored alarm to it.

If you live in a big city, go check them out in person and get a tour of their warehouse. Last time I went in Los Angeles, they had an example of a TL-30 safe that was broken into (it took the crooks overnight to do it and I think they burnt up everything inside by accident) - was interesting to see.

Ian

derryb · June 1, 2019 4:19PM

you definitely want the door to have locking bolts all the way around the door. Many safes do not have them on the hinged side of the door. In this case all a thief has to do is grind off the hinges and pry the door open.

thebeav · June 2, 2019 5:24AM

@derryb said:
you definitely want the door to have locking bolts all the way around the door. Many safes do not have them on the hinged side of the door. In this case all a thief has to do is grind off the hinges and pry the door open.

In all honesty, I don't think I've ever seen a safe like that. There are pigeon-hole pins or stationary bolts, or a tab that will tuck behind the door frame. I can't imagine anyone purchasing a box without such simple features.

CCGGG · June 2, 2019 6:09AM

I saw a video similar to this one some years ago and made me re-think the "high security" of a gun safe for securing "my coins". Mine is 1500 lbs (empty), has a UL fire resistance rating, is equipped with a pry resistant door (1" thick), is bolted to the slab and even has a re-locker (very important). But after seeing this, I took several "other" precautions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-9vWa-C44I

New member question - Best Safes?

Comments

Leave a Comment