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Monster toned PCGS DMPL/NGC DPL Morgans..How rare are they?
islemangu
Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭
In years of internet surfing (not shows) I have only come across this one.
83-P NGC MS66 DPL
How rare are they or do all of the experts here have a few stashed away? Would enjoy seeing them if you have them
My ebay auction(s)
83-P NGC MS66 DPL
How rare are they or do all of the experts here have a few stashed away? Would enjoy seeing them if you have them
My ebay auction(s)
YCCTidewater.com
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Edited to add : take a look at my icon that is a 66 DMPL piece
Rainbow Stars
Rainbow Stars
dragon
They sure are beautiful though when one is seen! GSAGUY has a couple that are outstanding.
These are some of the prettiest coins in Numismatics.
peacockcoins
My ebay auction(s)
<< <i>That used to be my coin. It is a killer!
Since DMPL Morgans really are first strikes, there aren't a whole lot that get made. Maybe 1/2 of 1% of whats struck could make PL, and even less are DMPL.
DMPL surfaces happen as coins come of the freshly polished dies. The polishing and clarity of the dies wears down quickly. And in some cases (like POST 1900), the dies were poorly polished (they actually used worn Proof dies to save money) and DMPLs are virtually non existant.
Finding a coin in GEM DMPL really is MUCH harder than most people realize. These coins had to survive crude transport, the counting machines, and many other potentially damaging experinces just to get out of the bank! >>
Want to give credit where credit is due. Nice to see a "Major Dealer" being very informative. Thanks!!!
Heavy monster toning will interfer with the depth of the mirrors dropping it down to PL so nicely toned DMPL is a rare thing indeed.
This one didn't scan well but it looks a lot like a Modern Proof with a little peripheral tone: Text
Toneddollars and dragon, would you guys be so kind as to post a picture of the ones you own?
Mike
Visit Our Website @ www.numisvision.com
Specializing in DMPL Dollars, MONSTER toners and other Premium Quality U.S. Coins
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www.AlanBestBuys.com
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As for as the issue of PCGS' grading of the coins, I find that it's difficult to get PCGS to give the PL or DMPL designation to a coin that's toned. Many that I've bought in PCGS holders that are obviously PL or DMPL are not so designated on the insert. Oh well, doesn't matter once they're cracked out and displayed in my favorite Capital Plastics holder.
GSAGUY
Rainbow Stars
My ebay auction(s)
Many of the DMPL's in existence today were originally toned coins. In the early to mid 1970's as prooflike collecting of Morgan Silver Dollars was coming into vogue and the desirability of such pieces was starting to cause a significant divergence in pricing relative to their "BU" counterparts, I witnessed (through many conversations with dealers at the time and "before" and "after" jobs) the "dipping" of a multitude of deep mirrored toned coins. Many of these were originally heavily toned which mostly obscured the mirrors while others were even, perhaps, attractively colored by today's standards of aesthetics. The coins were dipped to demonstrate or reveal the full depth and bloom of the deeply mirrored surfaces and cameo effect which often could only be suggested through the toning.
Reinforcing this activity was the fact that some of the results were absolutely mind-blowing (and hence accompanied by a dramatic increase in price) in that an amazing black and white or else very deep mirrored and cameoed specimen was often uncovered beneath what was essentially perceived as a sort of camouflage of rusting. The fact that many/most/almost all higher quality deeply mirrored Morgans are "white" is in no way a random occurence based on what I observed.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
OK folks, any more pictures?
Here is an 81-s that I believe is full dmpl (the reverse sure is), although pcgs did not designate it on the holder.
That's when I started collecting before becoming a dealer 7 years later. Buddy and I used to go to the coin shop every Saturday and pick and pick and pick through dollars. $3 for BU......$5 for P/L (mostly 78s, 79s, 80s, but almost all were white. Whether he dipped them I don't know, but I do know I missed millions of dollars in the future by not loading up on them back then.
Morgans have never been rare. When coins went through the roof in 79-80 they were simply the easiest coin to run national ads on.
But I can't recall many if any TONED P/L's. The thing was to have the WHITEST coins at that time.
Yes, in the early 1970's dipping of Morgans was extremely prevalent if not universal. I can recall watching a dealer, in his shop in New York City, dip every single toned coin found in an original bag. Even though the dollar amount differential may have been small, that is by today's standards, it was definitely considered worthwhile dipping just about any colored coin if it was to make it more clearly evident just how fully it was mirrored beneath the toning.
As you note, white or untoned coins were the norm and constituted the vast majority of Morgans offered for sale at shows. This was no accident, however, as original bags normally contain at least some notable number of toned pieces. As you point out, at shows in the early 1970's dealers customarily displayed small, almost roll size, stacks of EACH Morgan date in BU condition in their tray (except for a few rare dates) and not a single coin layer as is the case typically today. Yet, virtually all these piles were usually made up of completely untoned specimens.
Would any of the dipped DMPL's or PL's get the nod from PCGS or NGC today? I definitely think many of them would and, furthermore, believe many are presently residing as whitish specimens in 65 or better PL and DMPL holders. Many others, of course, would be of lower grade due to suface problems related to the dipping or the bagmarks which are often accentuated by mirror surfaces and unvealed by the dip. Please note: I am talking about coins which I witnessed getting a SINGLE dip out of an original BU bag (or old time hoard, roll or collection) and NOT dipped coins which were later put in cardboad albums and toned a bit and then were re-dipped eventually making them borderline BU with regard to luster and surface quality.
Additionally, while I know this may be controversial, the number of toned coins, even in non-prooflike condition (including those in certified holders), seems much more visible and prevalent on the market today then it ever was in those "old days". I wonder whether this is because imparting toning to a brilliant white BU coin may make sense to potentially enhance its value, while contemplating toning a deep mirror or plain prooflike may actually be viewed as to risk covering up a most desirable trait.
My 1882 MS65 DMPL in a PCGS holder purchased from Mike DeFalco:
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DMPL Morgan Registry Set