Is not toning on only one side of coin a sure sign of NT?

islemangu · April 12, 2003 4:17PM

I was not aware of the prevalence of AT until recently monitoring this forum and seeing actual pics with explanations.
Is it a safe bet that a coin is NT if there is toning on only one side and relatively untoned on the other as mint bagged and rolls coins were mostly exposed to bag fabric or roll paper on just one side? Do the AT technicians have a hard time with duplicating this and go with the two sided toning as all the examples of AT I:ve seen have this?

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Typetone · April 12, 2003 4:18PM

An end of roll coin might be toned on one side and white on the other.

Greg

sinin1 · April 12, 2003 5:01PM

Not a safe assumption (NT meaning naturally toned?)

If a coin was heated very hot, you could not heat one side more than the other very easily

If chemicals where applied, pretty easy to do just one side.

Baley · April 12, 2003 6:22PM

the concept of toning is not so simple a question as the binary "either it's NT or it's AT" attitude, as much as "how natural does it look?" and answer for each coin on a spectrum from "very real looking" through "pretty real looking" to "not very real looking" Look at a lot of toned coins and you get used to how they come, which kinds of color look good and which not. Even better, clean some junk silver coins and store them for long periods wrapped in paper or cloth, some in your garage and some in your kitchen, and watch what happens. then heat some up, put bleach on some, blow smoke on some, etc and see how that kind of "toning" looks. get that education, and look at pictures of expensive slabbed toned coins, and you can tell, at least better, which kinds of toning are "probably natural" and which are "probably accelerated"

nwcs · April 13, 2003 12:41AM

At can be one side, two side, and imitate just about anything. But so far, most AT jobs have certain characteristics that make them obvious. There is a video the ANA sells on AT, I recommend it.

FC57Coins · April 13, 2003 1:27AM

Toning can certainly happen on both sides as is the case with album toning and envelope toning where both sides of the coin have come into contact with the air, and some other agent that has triggered the chemical reaction. To me, one of the best ways to determine whether toning is real or not is to step back and think to myself - how did this toning happen. I know that:

Envelope and album toning is the result of the coin being exposed on both sides to paper or cardboard.
Endroll toning has distinct angle patterns and is the result of coins sitting on the end of a paper roll
Bag toning is the result of the coin sitting against the side of a mint bag and reacting to the sulfur in the cloth thereby creating very vibrant colors
Crescent toning is the same as bag toning, only a coin has been superimposed on another, therefore a crescent shape has been created
Textile toning is still yet another variant of bag toning, where the actual textile pattern has been imprinted on the coin.
Mint set toning - very vibrant, or sometimes dull speckled toning patters typical of some 1940's-50's coins
Natural skin - Im giving this name to any toning that falls into the category of grey/black for silver coins and brown for copper coins

Now, knowing that these patterns exist, I ask the next question. Which pattern could the coin in question fall into. If I can possibly attribute the type of toning that might have caused this, next I'll ask myself - given the type of toning - how could it have "grown" on the coin. Because we are talking about a chemical reaction, I think of toning as starting small, and "creeping" through out the coin. Over time and depending on where the toning ebbs and flows, you will have certain indicators which will tell you if the toning is good or not. Colors will flow from one color to the next in a seemingly natural flow, though this may not always be the case, the recesses of devices will be toned one color, while the tops of will be another (you often find the letters and dates on a genuine toned coin have one color and the inside space has another), the edge and denticles of the coin (if it has denticles) are toned one color, and the miniscule spaces between and next to them are toned another.

Finally, the overall coin has a "look" about it that tells you it's toned naturally. This is the toughest trait to judge, because it comes strictly with experience. Most brilliantly toned coins as referred to above, will be uncirculated, and therefore the toning on these coins will have an almost irridescent, transparent look to it (most, not all the time). AT coins, in my mind look like the toning was imposed or painted on, thereby impeding the luster coming through (most, not all the time). When I first started dinking around with toned coins I was often fooled by coins that I thought looked "good enough" but when I started reading and listening to the pros as to what to look for I felt rather foolish. Because of the ways coin doctors have found to tone coins, there are exceptions to every rule that I have cited above, so I'm not claiming that this is a foolproof way to tell whether a coin is properly toned or not. These are some of the things that I look for to determine whether or not I want to sink some of my hard earned money on a coin that has color.

Below are some examples of naturally toned coins that I've found, and a few fakes that I've found:

Album Toned:

Endroll Toned:

Bag Toned:

Crescent Toned:

Mint set toned:

AT Coins:

Russ · April 13, 2003 3:44AM

Frank,

Another fantastic post! If you repeat that another 1000 times, I may begin to start understanding this stuff. Even after soaking up everything posted around here, it still confuses the hell out of me.

Take this coin, for example:

It displays many of the characteristics you've described that would indicate natural toning. But, is it?

Russ, NCNE

islemangu · April 13, 2003 7:19AM

Thank you FC57Coins for very informative and a little worrisome as your AT blue example looks identical to a NGC slab I have, but the reverse is brilliant untoned

I am not going to open and read anymore AT threads with yours the last word.

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jonesy · April 13, 2003 7:31AM

FC57, Because you have over 3000 post, I am going to offer you free coin dipping. I'll dip your entire collection for free. Theres no need to keep these ugly coins around. Better yet, I will give you face value and take those ugly slugs away. Let me know how much I owe you.

Glenn

jonesy · April 13, 2003 7:37AM

No, Really. FC57, YOU RULE!!!

Glenn

BillJones · April 13, 2003 7:48AM

Many silver dollars that are totally natural are beautifully toned on the one side and white as snow on the other. If one side was against the bag it got toned, and the other side that was against other coins did not. That frustrates most toned silver dollar collectors. As for AT one sided toning, I'm sure that if the coin doctors find that they can sell such coins for a premium that they will find a way to tone just one side. There is no substitude for learning what NT looks like.

Other 19th century coins spent lots of time in coin cabinets with one side facing up for years. One side tones; the other doesn't or tones differently.

Is not toning on only one side of coin a sure sign of NT?

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