<< <i>Anaconda, I love that 1834 proof Bust quarter NGC PF67 that you posted on the "Death Thread." Gorgeous coin !!!!
Of course, you know that when that coin was auctioned in September, 1998 by Heritage (Signature Sale, 9/98, Lot 6650), it realized $58,650. How much are you asking for it? Oh my, I see you have it advertised for $135,000 !!! Boy, it must have really cost you a lot to take those pretty photos
I will say that your photos are among the best around, and your descriptions among the most engaging ... but are they worth a $75,000 markup over auction value? Jeez, I must be in the wrong business. Maybe I should become a "dealer" !!!! >>
Hey Sunnywood, Do you have one of these as nice at Anaconda's coin available for sale near the $58,650 price? If so, give me a call on Monday so we can consumate a deal. As far as I know, Texas is still part of the United States. Here in the United States we have a free market/Capitalism style system. Adrian is welcome to ask whatever he wants for the coin. Just as you are welcome to pass on his price. He is currently the owner of the coin so he owns the right, not you are anyone else. Heck, I would price the coin at $175,000 myself. The coin is awesome. It certainly ranks amongst the top of the bust quarters I have seen over the past 30 Years. Why would anyone want to let the coin go at a cheap price?
You are always welcome to join the dealer ranks, there is no limitations here in the United States from you becoming a coin dealer. Then you too can determine your own prices. John Butler Sahara Coins & Vintage Paper Memories
first i'm going to try to link to photo, if that happens i will write about coin.
okaaaay, well that didn't work.
not whining or complaining, just stating a fact.
back to the drawing board.
i have learned that my camera is nowhere near good enough to take phots of coins, i got one decent shot, but will have to upgrade to a good camera to hold my own around here.
this here is a nice coin. bought it as an au for a couple bucks, sent it to SEGS when they was just newbies, they popped it in a slab what said "MS-62" "Old Cleaning" which i thought was right kind of them, (58 is probably the proper grade). It is of course a common date, decently struck, although not FH, and it does show some (*maybe 4) light hairlines on rev. which i guess is why the cleaning part. It has very nice toning, steel/blue gray, and is in fact the first coin i ever got "slabbed." I find these to be wonderful coins, particularly those rare pieces with rainbow or other natural colorful toning, i believe you've seen a couple, Adrian. It is one of the great coin designs in our history, IMHO, a simple, clean rendering of the strength and compassion of liberty on the obverse, backed with perhaps my favorite rendering of a majestic eagle in flight on reverse. (Ok, it's not a saint, but everyone can afford one, plus when i was a youngster, you could actually git one in change.)
Alright, as mentioned before my camera is not going to work for coins, it worked when i was selling off golf clubs, but fortunately i have had no reason to sell coins.
can i go back to whining now..??,,..?? I promise to be more productive once i've 1: gotten a new camera, 2: recovered from double hernia surgery i had four days ago (just a couple of the nice coins are with me in the recovery room).
okay, just to prove that the camera doesn't work as well with coins as with other things...
I present first a 2 cent piece, nice au, perhaps at toning, perhaps not, from this photo you'll never know. (yeah, right).
next I present Jennifer, modeling my girlfriend's design of short yoga shorts. As this was a rush photo for an advertising deadline, we did just focus on the short, but if we had done a full on shot, she would have given Stephanie a run for her money. (Jennifer is married, so we needn't go down that road.)
okay, it's obvious that 1: i need a better camera, 2: most of the good stuff is in the safe deposit box, 3: more vicodin and sleep now.
Just wanted to post another picture. While not a coin it is collected for all the same reasons. It's history and great craftsmanship. These were given out to the men that gave their lives for their country in WWI.
Here's a couple of scans I made with my old cheap IBM scanner that I got for 100 Canadian dollars:
These coins weren't that expensive but looks great and I sold them all on this board hours after posting the accompanying pictures... so there's nothing for ME to complain about personally.
The Scan does not do this coin any justice whatsoever, but it is the best that I can accomplish on an old coin. I picked this up for $10 Canadian recently, and I believe it is even a small motto, at least a vf, could pull an xf.
<<<Hey Sunnywood, Do you have one of these as nice at Anaconda's coin available for sale near the $58,650 price? If so, give me a call on Monday so we can consumate a deal. As far as I know, Texas is still part of the United States. Here in the United States we have a free market/Capitalism style system. Adrian is welcome to ask whatever he wants for the coin. Just as you are welcome to pass on his price. He is currently the owner of the coin so he owns the right, not you or anyone else. Heck, I would price the coin at $175,000 myself. The coin is awesome. It certainly ranks amongst the top of the bust quarters I have seen over the past 30 Years. Why would anyone want to let the coin go at a cheap price? You are always welcome to join the dealer ranks, there is no limitations here in the United States from you becoming a coin dealer. Then you too can determine your own prices. >>>
Sorry, John, you missed the point. My post has to be taken in the context of the other thread. Of course a dealer can and should ask whatever he wants to for a coin or collectible. The point was, if you take your game to a free & public forum like this one, and advertise coins for sale at very big prices (or very big markups), then you have no right to WHINE about other collectors & dealers commenting about the coin, its appearance, its grade, its origin, or its price. The last time I checked, Texas was still part of the U.S. The principles of free speech apply there too !!! So it's perfectly OK for someone to ask any price for a coin, and it's also perfectly OK for someone else to point out that the coin just came out of an auction a weak earlier for less than half that ... or that last week it was in a different holder, etc.
There is a difference between a collector proudly posting a photo of a coin that he owns and is not selling for profit, and a dealer posting a photo of a coin for sale (whether explicitly stated or not). The latter should and does attract scrutiny, particularly with respect to grade and price. If onlookers feel the coin is either overgraded or overpriced (or perhaps both), they are likely to comment accordingly.
Perhaps part of the problem is that some dealers are still collectors at heart. So they still take everything personally, rather than maintaining a professional detachment and demeanor. But when you are posting coins with big price tags, you must expect those in the community of potential buyers - those whose money you are looking to take in exchange for your wares - to be wary and critical. So, with respect to Adrian's comment:
When someone posts a picture of a coin, keep your mouth shut unless you have something nice to say.
I'm not sure I agree ... if the coin is being offered publicly for sale and profit, I think people in the community of potential buyers should be free to comment publicly about it. This is particularly true when you select a free and open forum (these message boards) to publicize and advertise your coins, rather than your own website or bourse table. If we all want to agree that the correct etiquette here should entail making no critical comments at all, then many of the threads around here would have to be heavily rewritten !!!! Even Anaconda himself, who was complaining about Joe O'Connor's comments, has been known to be combative and adversarial beyond the bounds of etiquette !!! Are we ALL willing to follow the precept: "Keep your mouth shut unless you have something nice to say" ???
Sunnywood
P.S. I would have sent this by P.M. instead of posting it ... but your P.M.'s are off.
P.S. I would have sent this by P.M. instead of posting it ... but your P.M.'s are off.
Sunnywood - no need to afford JohnButlerfromLV such consideration since he obviously didn't think it was unreasonable to fire off his response publicly, and in defense of a dealer hawking his wares at substantial markups.
Many collectors here feel that dealers tend to pull together in solidarity with each other. If I were to misconstrue JBfromLV's post as badly as he misconstrued Sunnywood's, then I would also say that JB wasn't trying to tell it like it is, but only cared to defend the Snake-ster out of pure partisanship. Of course, I would NOT say this because I did not misconstrue JBfromLV's ill-conceived post as anything more than a product of late-night of delirium at having to wade through two lengthy threads about what is essentially the same topic.
EVP
[Edited to add that I apparently was confused about a comment that JBfromLV made above in reference to a coin; I had the wrong in mind, and I modified my post accordingly.]
FYI, the coin John Butler referred to as "awesome" was not the dipped & stripped 1815 quarter NGC MS65, but rather the 1834 proof quarter ex Norweb, NGC PF67. The latter coin could be called awesome, and has beautiful color, although opinions differ on its grade and value.
Aside from that, I agree with some of your other observations, although Joe O'Connor was certainly not exhibiting blind cohesion with the dealer group !!! If one were a dealer, I'm not sure which would be more in human nature - being supportive of your cohorts (other dealers) or tearing down your compeitors (other dealers) !!!
Anyway, I don't know how or why I chose to involve myself in all these contentious threads this weekend. I think it's just the awful NYC weather.
Sunnywood, no need to apologize. Your imput was well reasoned as usual. These threads are a learning experience to many of us who only deal on the fringes of the hobby and don't care to invest a large part of our wealth into coins or other collectibles based on 3rd party evaluations, whether they be seasoned dealers or grading companies. Personally I'd rather get advice from collectors like yourself that have no vested interest in their advice.
I edited my post above to try to rectify my mistake. Thanks to those who pointed out my error. I would not want to do injustice to someone I really don't know...
I don't have the money that some "Snakes" have or I could illustrate my $50,000 coins. The only time I comment on others coins though is when they ask for scrutiny and ask for critique/ or Grade information. I am certainly not in Annacondas league, nor do I pretend to be. I don't whine and I don't "Flame" others.
How people present their coins for sale I could care less. I make my own decisions about coins and other matters. Most people on this forum are very friendly and opinionated just as I am.
In my humble opinion, it is ok to be a whiner and complainer especially if it's only on occasion, but it is preferable to be a whiner and complainer so long as that's not all you do; being constructive, productive and pleasantly instructive makes the poster more likable and loveable and tolerable. Certainly my goal at all times. Stop that.
With regard to critical comments made regarding coins posted by people who have them for sale as opposed to simply showing off a new acquisition, why would it matter? Some people seem to think that dealers are all covered in scales and that slamming anything and everything they post is what is required. Hey buddy, dealers are humans too and when you slam what we've spent our hard earned dollars on, it hurts.
Oh, you're the Ralph Nader of coins, just doing what God has called you to do? Why don't you do something more worthwhile with you time like helping a single mother with her bills and problems? Don't get me wrong, helping fellow collectors is a worthwhile goal but expand your horizons....you don't have to accomplish that missionin with a steady stream of criticism directed at others peoples possessions.
And, for what it is worth, in the same vein, people have repeatedly asked me to post pictures not of coins that i don't have for sale but of coins that i have for sale.
Why would it matter whether the coin is or isn't for sale.....i post pictures of it to have fun and to share and if i sell it as a result of posting it in this forum something that has happened about 5 times in just under one year, then who cares?
Do you want me to only post pictures of coins in this forum that you can't have....would it be better for me to post pictures of all my coins in a different forum?
For what it is worth, i rarely ever comment on images i post here with regard to whether it is or isn't for sale.
Finally, if i was "just another greedy coin dealer", as all of them are of course, do you think it is in my financial best interests to come into this forum and post or would it be better for me to have listed the 15 coins yesterday that i didn't list because i was in here having fun and being a coin guy. When you stop making distinctions between dealers and collectors, you will be best off. Make distinctions between good guys and bad guys. That is more practical. I have seen very very very few guys hang around in this forum who are bad guys. We chase 'em out, along with a healthy dose of others who just might be bad......to hang out here, you had best pray that you can not be accused of ever having done anything "wrong".
I really like most of the dealers I have had the pleasure of buying from and working with. I have only encountered a very few whom I preferred to avoid thereafter. But in truth, I liked most of them !! And I liked their coins, and I respected the hard work they put in traveling around to shows, and maintaining a retail operation with overhead, and a website, etc. I never minded knowing that if I bought a coin from a dealer, s/he was making a profit on it, so long as I knew the price to be reasonable, and felt the coin was of commendable quality. Most of the dealers I like were always polite and courteous, and rarely if ever combative and adversarial (except maybe in one very special case ...). They certainly weren't egotistical, argumentative, competitive or arrogant. Many of them are also very knowledgeable, and I learned a great deal from them. Without these dealers, my collections would have been less complete, and my collecting endeavors less interesting. So, here's a toast to the good guys, thanks for all your help, and for enriching my collecting experience.
Let's cut out all the verbiage... In your opinion as a forum member as well as a member of our esteemed hobby, is it ok to criticize a coin as long as we do it tactfully? Or, is it altogether not acceptable to criticize someone else's coin -- no matter how tactfully?
In my humble opinion, it is ok to be a whiner and complainer especially if it's only on occasion, but it is preferable to be a whiner and complainer so long as that's not all you do; being constructive, productive and pleasantly instructive makes the poster more likable and loveable and tolerable. Certainly my goal at all times. Stop that.
With regard to critical comments made regarding coins posted by people who have them for sale as opposed to simply showing off a new acquisition, why would it matter? Some people seem to think that dealers are all covered in scales and that slamming anything and everything they post is what is required. Hey buddy, dealers are humans too and when you slam what we've spent our hard earned dollars on, it hurts.
Oh, you're the Ralph Nader of coins, just doing what God has called you to do? Why don't you do something more worthwhile with you time like helping a single mother with her bills and problems? Don't get me wrong, helping fellow collectors is a worthwhile goal but expand your horizons....you don't have to accomplish that missionin with a steady stream of criticism directed at others peoples possessions.
And, for what it is worth, in the same vein, people have repeatedly asked me to post pictures not of coins that i don't have for sale but of coins that i have for sale.
Why would it matter whether the coin is or isn't for sale.....i post pictures of it to have fun and to share and if i sell it as a result of posting it in this forum something that has happened about 5 times in just under one year, then who cares?
Do you want me to only post pictures of coins in this forum that you can't have....would it be better for me to post pictures of all my coins in a different forum?
For what it is worth, i rarely ever comment on images i post here with regard to whether it is or isn't for sale.
Finally, if i was "just another greedy coin dealer", as all of them are of course, do you think it is in my financial best interests to come into this forum and post or would it be better for me to have listed the 15 coins yesterday that i didn't list because i was in here having fun and being a coin guy. When you stop making distinctions between dealers and collectors, you will be best off. Make distinctions between good guys and bad guys. That is more practical. I have seen very very very few guys hang around in this forum who are bad guys. We chase 'em out, along with a healthy dose of others who just might be bad......to hang out here, you had best pray that you can not be accused of ever having done anything "wrong".
snake >>
Very fine post and it bears repeting. While I do agree in it's entirety, it might be pointed out that it would be detrimental if this particular forum were to be used to advertise coins to a large extent. Yes, I'm sure this wasn't Anaconda's point or intent.
Boy, there's just a whole 'nuther world out there in foreign coins. Very cool stuff....
and very interesting however, i'll have to seriously consider tackling it only after longevity is extended by 100 years. I've been studying coins (on and off) since 1983 or so and i still learn something new all the time.
FYI, the coin John Butler referred to as "awesome" was not the dipped & stripped 1815 quarter NGC MS65, but rather the 1834 proof quarter ex Norweb, NGC PF67. The latter coin could be called awesome, and has beautiful color, although opinions differ on its grade and value.
Sorry everyone !!! Sunnywood >>
Its true that I was referring to the 1834 quarter. Its true that Sunnywood made some great points. Its also true what EVillageProwler said "ill-conceived post as anything more than a product of late-night of delirium at having to wade through two lengthy threads about what is essentially the same topic." Its also true that I enjoy looking at cool coins, especially the Foreign coins that cosmicdebris Ruler Of Britannia shows. Its also true that I would never have been a part of this board if not for someone with the same name as myself having spammed a bunch of members about their registry sets. I had to let everyone know that I was a horrible salesman and would never spam registry set members. John Butler Sahara Coins & Vintage Paper Memories
<< <i>OK, I'm going to whine and complain. I submitted this Washington Carver to PCGS expecting a real pop-top, and it didn't even come back mint state. There must be a touch of rub on the high points, but I don't see it. Can someone enlighten me? >>
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Let's cut out all the verbiage... In your opinion as a forum member as well as a member of our esteemed hobby, is it ok to criticize a coin as long as we do it tactfully? Or, is it altogether not acceptable to criticize someone else's coin -- no matter how tactfully?
EVP"
I think if the poster shows one of his coins just to say, "hey, look what i bought" then to come in and post criticism of the coin is totally inappropriate. It's like farting at the dinner table. Farting is fine, but not at the dinner table. It doesn't matter whether the guy who posts the image is a dealer or a collector or a hybrid, like me.
If someone posts a picture and says "what do you think about it?", and it's his coin, i think, hey, take a chunk out of him.
If he posts a picture of it and says he's thinking about buying it for $X, and he's asking advice, give it to him or better yet, PM him with your advice.
Here's one of mine, a 1707 ruble of Peter the Great. Peter struck the world's first decimal crown-size coins, nearly a century before the first US dollar.
A simple point. The majority of dealers make money in the hobby. The majority of collectors, accumulators, and speculators (non-dealers) DO NOT make money. A good % lose their proverbial shirts. I think it should be much different. Why shouldn't a collector be able to make money over the long term on his aquisitions? I keep hearing that it's only hobby......as is that implies that you are expected to burn your money just as if your hobby were mountain climbing (expensive hobby to travel to Mt. Everest). The sheer joy of collecting and ownership should more than offset any heavy financial losses right? It might not be good business in today's cutthroat world, but a doctor, lawyer, and yes, even coin dealer's primary or at least secondary interest should be to do well for his customer. My 2 cents as contrarian as it may be.
Comments
<< <i>Anaconda, I love that 1834 proof Bust quarter NGC PF67 that you posted on the "Death Thread." Gorgeous coin !!!!
Of course, you know that when that coin was auctioned in September, 1998 by Heritage (Signature Sale, 9/98, Lot 6650), it realized $58,650. How much are you asking for it? Oh my, I see you have it advertised for $135,000 !!! Boy, it must have really cost you a lot to take those pretty photos
I will say that your photos are among the best around, and your descriptions among the most engaging ... but are they worth a $75,000 markup over auction value? Jeez, I must be in the wrong business. Maybe I should become a "dealer" !!!! >>
Hey Sunnywood, Do you have one of these as nice at Anaconda's coin available for sale near the $58,650 price? If so, give me a call on Monday so we can consumate a deal.
As far as I know, Texas is still part of the United States. Here in the United States we have a free market/Capitalism style system. Adrian is welcome to ask whatever he wants for the coin. Just as you are welcome to pass on his price. He is currently the owner of the coin so he owns the right, not you are anyone else. Heck, I would price the coin at $175,000 myself. The coin is awesome. It certainly ranks amongst the top of the bust quarters I have seen over the past 30 Years. Why would anyone want to let the coin go at a cheap price?
You are always welcome to join the dealer ranks, there is no limitations here in the United States from you becoming a coin dealer. Then you too can determine your own prices.
John Butler
Sahara Coins
&
Vintage Paper Memories
okaaaay, well that didn't work.
not whining or complaining, just stating a fact.
back to the drawing board.
i have learned that my camera is nowhere near good enough to take phots of coins, i got one decent shot, but will have to upgrade to a good camera to hold my own around here.
i'll keep trying.
in business
this here is a nice coin. bought it as an au for a couple bucks, sent it to SEGS when they was just newbies, they popped it in a slab what said "MS-62" "Old Cleaning" which i thought was right kind of them, (58 is probably the proper grade). It is of course a common date, decently struck, although not FH, and it does show some (*maybe 4) light hairlines on rev. which i guess is why the cleaning part. It has very nice toning, steel/blue gray, and is in fact the first coin i ever got "slabbed." I find these to be wonderful coins, particularly those rare pieces with rainbow or other natural colorful toning, i believe you've seen a couple, Adrian. It is one of the great coin designs in our history, IMHO, a simple, clean rendering of the strength and compassion of liberty on the obverse, backed with perhaps my favorite rendering of a majestic eagle in flight on reverse. (Ok, it's not a saint, but everyone can afford one, plus when i was a youngster, you could actually git one in change.)
Alright, as mentioned before my camera is not going to work for coins, it worked when i was selling off golf clubs, but fortunately i have had no reason to sell coins.
can i go back to whining now..??,,..?? I promise to be more productive once i've 1: gotten a new camera, 2: recovered from double hernia surgery i had four days ago (just a couple of the nice coins are with me in the recovery room).
z
I present first a 2 cent piece, nice au, perhaps at toning, perhaps not, from this photo you'll never know. (yeah, right).
next I present Jennifer, modeling my girlfriend's design of short yoga shorts. As this was a rush photo for an advertising deadline, we did just focus on the short, but if we had done a full on shot, she would have given Stephanie a run for her money. (Jennifer is married, so we needn't go down that road.)
okay, it's obvious that 1: i need a better camera, 2: most of the good stuff is in the safe deposit box, 3: more vicodin and sleep now.
z
edited for Mark
09/07/2006
09/07/2006
09/07/2006
These coins weren't that expensive but looks great and I sold them all on this board hours after posting the accompanying pictures... so there's nothing for ME to complain about personally.
I am a foreign devil.
Ebay name: bhil3
Ebay name: bhil3
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
<<<Hey Sunnywood, Do you have one of these as nice at Anaconda's coin available for sale near the $58,650 price? If so, give me a call on Monday so we can consumate a deal. As far as I know, Texas is still part of the United States. Here in the United States we have a free market/Capitalism style system. Adrian is welcome to ask whatever he wants for the coin. Just as you are welcome to pass on his price. He is currently the owner of the coin so he owns the right, not you or anyone else. Heck, I would price the coin at $175,000 myself. The coin is awesome. It certainly ranks amongst the top of the bust quarters I have seen over the past 30 Years. Why would anyone want to let the coin go at a cheap price? You are always welcome to join the dealer ranks, there is no limitations here in the United States from you becoming a coin dealer. Then you too can determine your own prices. >>>
Sorry, John, you missed the point. My post has to be taken in the context of the other thread. Of course a dealer can and should ask whatever he wants to for a coin or collectible. The point was, if you take your game to a free & public forum like this one, and advertise coins for sale at very big prices (or very big markups), then you have no right to WHINE about other collectors & dealers commenting about the coin, its appearance, its grade, its origin, or its price. The last time I checked, Texas was still part of the U.S. The principles of free speech apply there too !!! So it's perfectly OK for someone to ask any price for a coin, and it's also perfectly OK for someone else to point out that the coin just came out of an auction a weak earlier for less than half that ... or that last week it was in a different holder, etc.
There is a difference between a collector proudly posting a photo of a coin that he owns and is not selling for profit, and a dealer posting a photo of a coin for sale (whether explicitly stated or not). The latter should and does attract scrutiny, particularly with respect to grade and price. If onlookers feel the coin is either overgraded or overpriced (or perhaps both), they are likely to comment accordingly.
Perhaps part of the problem is that some dealers are still collectors at heart. So they still take everything personally, rather than maintaining a professional detachment and demeanor. But when you are posting coins with big price tags, you must expect those in the community of potential buyers - those whose money you are looking to take in exchange for your wares - to be wary and critical. So, with respect to Adrian's comment:
When someone posts a picture of a coin, keep your mouth shut unless you have something nice to say.
I'm not sure I agree ... if the coin is being offered publicly for sale and profit, I think people in the community of potential buyers should be free to comment publicly about it. This is particularly true when you select a free and open forum (these message boards) to publicize and advertise your coins, rather than your own website or bourse table. If we all want to agree that the correct etiquette here should entail making no critical comments at all, then many of the threads around here would have to be heavily rewritten !!!! Even Anaconda himself, who was complaining about Joe O'Connor's comments, has been known to be combative and adversarial beyond the bounds of etiquette !!! Are we ALL willing to follow the precept: "Keep your mouth shut unless you have something nice to say" ???
Sunnywood
P.S. I would have sent this by P.M. instead of posting it ... but your P.M.'s are off.
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
Sunnywood - no need to afford JohnButlerfromLV such consideration since he obviously didn't think it was unreasonable to fire off his response publicly, and in defense of a dealer hawking his wares at substantial markups.
Many collectors here feel that dealers tend to pull together in solidarity with each other. If I were to misconstrue JBfromLV's post as badly as he misconstrued Sunnywood's, then I would also say that JB wasn't trying to tell it like it is, but only cared to defend the Snake-ster out of pure partisanship. Of course, I would NOT say this because I did not misconstrue JBfromLV's ill-conceived post as anything more than a product of late-night of delirium at having to wade through two lengthy threads about what is essentially the same topic.
EVP
[Edited to add that I apparently was confused about a comment that JBfromLV made above in reference to a coin; I had the wrong in mind, and I modified my post accordingly.]
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Ebay name: bhil3
FYI, the coin John Butler referred to as "awesome" was not the dipped & stripped 1815 quarter NGC MS65, but rather the 1834 proof quarter ex Norweb, NGC PF67. The latter coin could be called awesome, and has beautiful color, although opinions differ on its grade and value.
Aside from that, I agree with some of your other observations, although Joe O'Connor was certainly not exhibiting blind cohesion with the dealer group !!! If one were a dealer, I'm not sure which would be more in human nature - being supportive of your cohorts (other dealers) or tearing down your compeitors (other dealers) !!!
Anyway, I don't know how or why I chose to involve myself in all these contentious threads this weekend. I think it's just the awful NYC weather.
Sorry everyone !!!
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Cool and the Gang, Heraclius 610-6141 AD (circa: 629-632)
Cool with his little brother, Heraclius 610-6141 AD (circa: 632-635)
The old man, Constans II 641-668 AD Carthage Mint (circa: 652-653)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I think you were right on!
I don't have the money that some "Snakes" have or I could illustrate my $50,000 coins. The only time I comment on others coins though is when they ask for scrutiny and ask for critique/ or Grade information. I am certainly not in Annacondas league, nor do I pretend to be. I don't whine and I don't "Flame" others.
How people present their coins for sale I could care less. I make my own decisions about coins and other matters. Most people on this forum are very friendly and opinionated just as I am.
Dan
Edited for "another" spelling mistake
In my humble opinion, it is ok to be a whiner and complainer especially if it's only on occasion, but it is preferable to be a whiner and
complainer so long as that's not all you do; being constructive, productive and pleasantly instructive makes the poster more likable
and loveable and tolerable. Certainly my goal at all times. Stop that.
With regard to critical comments made regarding coins posted by people who have them for sale as opposed to simply showing off
a new acquisition, why would it matter? Some people seem to think that dealers are all covered in scales and that slamming
anything and everything they post is what is required. Hey buddy, dealers are humans too and when you slam what we've spent
our hard earned dollars on, it hurts.
Oh, you're the Ralph Nader of coins, just doing what God has called you to do? Why don't you do something more worthwhile with
you time like helping a single mother with her bills and problems? Don't get me wrong, helping fellow collectors is a worthwhile
goal but expand your horizons....you don't have to accomplish that missionin with a steady stream of criticism directed at others
peoples possessions.
And, for what it is worth, in the same vein, people have repeatedly asked me to post pictures not of coins that i don't have for sale but of coins
that i have for sale.
Why would it matter whether the coin is or isn't for sale.....i post pictures of it to have fun and to share and if i sell it as a result
of posting it in this forum something that has happened about 5 times in just under one year, then who cares?
Do you want me to only post pictures of coins in this forum that you can't have....would it be better for me to post pictures of all my coins in a different forum?
For what it is worth, i rarely ever comment on images i post here with regard to whether it is or isn't for sale.
Finally, if i was "just another greedy coin dealer", as all of them are of course, do you think it is in my financial best interests to come
into this forum and post or would it be better for me to have listed the 15 coins yesterday that i didn't list because i was in here
having fun and being a coin guy. When you stop making distinctions between dealers and collectors, you will be best off. Make
distinctions between good guys and bad guys. That is more practical. I have seen very very very few guys hang around in this forum
who are bad guys. We chase 'em out, along with a healthy dose of others who just might be bad......to hang out here, you had best
pray that you can not be accused of ever having done anything "wrong".
snake
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Let's cut out all the verbiage... In your opinion as a forum member as well as a member of our esteemed hobby, is it ok to criticize a coin as long as we do it tactfully? Or, is it altogether not acceptable to criticize someone else's coin -- no matter how tactfully?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
World Coin & PM Collector
My Coin Info Pages <> My All Experts Profile
<< <i>Nice Lafayette.
In my humble opinion, it is ok to be a whiner and complainer especially if it's only on occasion, but it is preferable to be a whiner and
complainer so long as that's not all you do; being constructive, productive and pleasantly instructive makes the poster more likable
and loveable and tolerable. Certainly my goal at all times. Stop that.
With regard to critical comments made regarding coins posted by people who have them for sale as opposed to simply showing off
a new acquisition, why would it matter? Some people seem to think that dealers are all covered in scales and that slamming
anything and everything they post is what is required. Hey buddy, dealers are humans too and when you slam what we've spent
our hard earned dollars on, it hurts.
Oh, you're the Ralph Nader of coins, just doing what God has called you to do? Why don't you do something more worthwhile with
you time like helping a single mother with her bills and problems? Don't get me wrong, helping fellow collectors is a worthwhile
goal but expand your horizons....you don't have to accomplish that missionin with a steady stream of criticism directed at others
peoples possessions.
And, for what it is worth, in the same vein, people have repeatedly asked me to post pictures not of coins that i don't have for sale but of coins
that i have for sale.
Why would it matter whether the coin is or isn't for sale.....i post pictures of it to have fun and to share and if i sell it as a result
of posting it in this forum something that has happened about 5 times in just under one year, then who cares?
Do you want me to only post pictures of coins in this forum that you can't have....would it be better for me to post pictures of all my coins in a different forum?
For what it is worth, i rarely ever comment on images i post here with regard to whether it is or isn't for sale.
Finally, if i was "just another greedy coin dealer", as all of them are of course, do you think it is in my financial best interests to come
into this forum and post or would it be better for me to have listed the 15 coins yesterday that i didn't list because i was in here
having fun and being a coin guy. When you stop making distinctions between dealers and collectors, you will be best off. Make
distinctions between good guys and bad guys. That is more practical. I have seen very very very few guys hang around in this forum
who are bad guys. We chase 'em out, along with a healthy dose of others who just might be bad......to hang out here, you had best
pray that you can not be accused of ever having done anything "wrong".
snake >>
Very fine post and it bears repeting. While I do agree in it's entirety, it might be pointed
out that it would be detrimental if this particular forum were to be used to advertise coins
to a large extent. Yes, I'm sure this wasn't Anaconda's point or intent.
Medieval England, Aethelred II, Silver Penny, AD 978-1016:
Medieval England, King John, Silver Penny, AD 1199-1216:
And for you guys who can't live without slabs....
England, Charles I, Silver Shilling, AD 1625-1649:
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
and very interesting however, i'll have to seriously consider tackling it only after longevity is extended by 100 years. I've been studying coins (on and off) since 1983 or so and i still learn something new all the time.
adrian
<< <i>EVP,
FYI, the coin John Butler referred to as "awesome" was not the dipped & stripped 1815 quarter NGC MS65, but rather the 1834 proof quarter ex Norweb, NGC PF67. The latter coin could be called awesome, and has beautiful color, although opinions differ on its grade and value.
Sorry everyone !!!
Sunnywood >>
Its true that I was referring to the 1834 quarter. Its true that Sunnywood made some great points.
Its also true what EVillageProwler said "ill-conceived post as anything more than a product of late-night of delirium at having to wade through two lengthy threads about what is essentially the same topic."
Its also true that I enjoy looking at cool coins, especially the Foreign coins that cosmicdebris
Ruler Of Britannia shows.
Its also true that I would never have been a part of this board if not for someone with the same name as myself having spammed a bunch of members about their registry sets.
I had to let everyone know that I was a horrible salesman and would never spam registry set members.
John Butler
Sahara Coins
&
Vintage Paper Memories
Commemorating the Summer Olympics in Mexico City
I still don't think it is right to say "Who's arse did you pick that thing out of?"
It really isn't that hard to distinguish what is tactful and and what is not.
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
I absolutely do not complain but I do whimper from time to time. I do not lose my temper very often,
but I have lost my mind some years ago. Ahhhhhhhh, the life of a bear is sweet. Especially If you
can keep from getting shot during hunting season.
Camelot
<< <i>OK, I'm going to whine and complain. I submitted this Washington Carver to PCGS expecting a real pop-top, and it didn't even come back mint state. There must be a touch of rub on the high points, but I don't see it. Can someone enlighten me? >>
You tease. You know I NEED that coin!!
peacockcoins
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
7
5
4
11
12
13
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Let's cut out all the verbiage... In your opinion as a forum member as well as a member of our esteemed hobby, is it ok to criticize a coin as long as we do it tactfully? Or, is it altogether not acceptable to criticize someone else's coin -- no matter how tactfully?
EVP"
I think if the poster shows one of his coins just to say, "hey, look what i bought" then to come in and post criticism of the coin is totally inappropriate. It's like farting at the dinner table. Farting is fine, but not at the dinner table. It doesn't matter whether the guy who posts the image is a dealer or a collector or a hybrid, like me.
If someone posts a picture and says "what do you think about it?", and it's his coin, i think, hey, take a chunk out of him.
If he posts a picture of it and says he's thinking about buying it for $X, and he's asking advice, give it to him or better yet, PM him with your advice.
This is just common sense.
adrian
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
The majority of collectors, accumulators, and speculators (non-dealers) DO NOT make money. A good % lose their proverbial shirts. I think it should be much different. Why shouldn't a collector be able to make money over the long term on his aquisitions? I keep hearing that it's only hobby......as is that implies that you are expected to burn your money just as if your hobby were mountain climbing (expensive hobby to travel to Mt. Everest). The sheer joy of collecting and ownership should more than offset any heavy financial losses right? It might not be good business in today's cutthroat world, but a doctor, lawyer, and yes, even coin dealer's primary or at least secondary interest should be to do well for his customer. My 2 cents as contrarian as it may be.
roadrunner
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
MS65
I need some cheeze with my whine.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay