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NEWP 1868 $5
Clackamas1
Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
I actually got this last month. I can't believe it did not have a CAC sticker, so I sent it in yesterday, although a coin like this seems to have probably gone this route. It is actually MS; many of these "MS" coins from this era really are sliders, and not really MS. This coin has mint luster and no flatness on all surfaces. Very solid for the grade. This is the finest known, even if it is from across the street. Enjoy!
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Very nice coin, hope it does well at CAC!
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
- Someone, probably
A very handsome coin. And a date that you just do not see very often.
I enjoy looking at it.
Great coin! Good luck at CAC.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Nice coin for a 63. Can you please update us on CAC results
Wow. I'm often surprised by how rare (in absolute and/or conditional terms) some of these $5 Libs are.
What's the schmutz that's on the reverse (or holder)?
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
Schmutz—it looks like some bit of copper corrosion that has been there for a long time. Maybe it was a bag that got damp or wet sometime in the past 158 years. I don't know its history, but I suspect that this is a Fairmont coin. It seems to be new to the collecting world, as Akers says in Coin Facts that he is not aware of any UNCs. There are 2 graded at PCGS; the best is a 62.
A really tough date. I have a a PCGS 55 and have not found any for the date that I like better.
I don't believe your coin is from Fairmont.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
CAC have tightened up tremendously... just got a late southern gold back and it did not sticker... was surprised.
These Philly 5's can be tough.
Nice coin.
Why? I thought it was maybe because it is a fresh coin and totally original.
The coin was graded before Fairmont dropped + it doesn’t have the fairmont look.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Thank you. That is awesome information, and I appreciate it. Was this your coin? I have a couple of Fairmont coins, and sitting right next to them, it looks like it could be. No matter is is a great coin and IMO totally original.
Congrats @Clackamas1 ! This looks like a winner!
Not my coin! I did see it in hand though and thought it was exceptionally nice for the date. I actually am incorrect, Fairmont auctions began in June 2018 and this was graded in October 2018. However, the Fairmont coins all had the same surface preservation so the other point still fits I think.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Agreed. Fantastic coin but it doesn't have the Fairmont look at all.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Got a call from CAC—it arrived. I had forgotten my checkbook at the PO, so I put in 4 Benjis, and they don't take cash. LOL
Sorry I didn't see this until now. Lermish's side-by-side illustrates why I don't think it is a Fairmont coin.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
Good luck on the CAC submission. I would be that it has already been there. Though that doesn't mean that can't reconsider. All the best!
LOL—Never thought someone would take it that way.
I think it is sad that you had to pay another $400 for yet another "opinion" in order to maximize its value.
It costs $400 for them to look at that coin?
No, there were other coins that added up, but yeah, it is expensive.
Expensive coin; it's hard to imagine no one submitted it yet.
63 $43,000, (retail)
$60,000 (CAC) $36,000,
$50,000 (CAC)
It looks like the fee is $150 with a 15% discount if the coin fails to sticker.
See link below and use the drop down menu to view fees for stickering, as opposed to grading:
https://www.cacgrading.com/pricing?_gl=1*s0f98f*_up*MQ..*_gs*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6ObWBhDDARIsAFdfcUjUbv_umz2pZQ8FpFOGKWNvSNni1GV_PpLl3jv_4b6R-DlymQJfmhsaAvJPEALw_wcB&gbraid=0AAAABBx9CHM0p4uv2FlkqGB8UmakTZue0
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree, but I have had a number of high-dollar coins in my collection get beaned. Some people don't believe in it. Honestly, I don't think it actually helps the value much since it is a POP 1/0 from all services, and fewer than 100 are known. The buyers (in this case me) look at the coin. Where it may help is if you want to cross it. PCGS would see it, POP 1/0 NGC MS63, and a green bean and cross, IMO, easier. It would be hard to ignore as a grader.
I would respectfully disagree. It would help the value of the coin and it could be considerable. The CAC sticker not only indicates grade strength but also that the coin hasn’t been messed with. There are pop 1 coins that have been messed with and buyers are very sensitive to this. Coins in lower grades can sell for more than those in higher grade. We have all witnessed this.
Should your coin not pass CAC, will you share this information and the reasons? I would be reluctant as it might taint resale value. Not trying to be negative but rather honest.
I asked CAC to leave the red sticker with the reason on this coin. I may reveal it; however, this coin, when it gets resold, won't be a concern of mine since I will be in the ground. I think the schmutz on the reverse would be the thing to hold it back from a sticker.
I hope you get the sticker; but you don't need to share what is privileged and private information from cac and could be used as leverage in the future when it sells to get a lower price.
I would not reveal if it fails. Sadly, I suspect the area of copper corrosion (if that is indeed what it is) you alluded to will make it not sticker.
And on an unrelated note, a CAC sticker does not come with any guarantee. I do not understand its aggressive pricing at all on rarities, although I suspect it is to push people to CACG grading. For that amount, I think I would have tried to cross it at CACG.
I don’t think the pricing is particularly aggressive.
A submission to CACG for crossing would cost $125.
A submission to CAC for stickering would cost $150, with a 15%/$22.50 discount if the coin doesn’t sticker.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would agree with @MFeld. CAC and CACG pricing is reasonable.
Not sure it has been said already but I think this coin was a PCGS 62 and sold back in August 2018 at StacksBowers. If I am correct, it wasn't stickered as a 62 either. I hope I am wrong.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-BIO2B/1868-liberty-head-half-eagle-ms-62-pcgs
It looks like the same coin to me, save for the whitish area on the reverse looks to have worsened. I would send the old auction photos of the coin to NGC, and ask them if it can be conserved under their guarantee. I'm guessing probably not, but it is sure worth the effort even if it is just an attempt to stabilize the surfaces.
Good catch, thank you. 100% the same coin, and that schmutz is new, so it may not be too bad to get removed.
I wonder if CAC would let you withdraw that one. They would need to look at it again if it is conserved anyway.
Good catch on the S-B auction appearance. I guess I'd rather have an unstickered NGC 63 than an unstickered PCGS 62 (schmutz free, of course).
I’m not so sure that a NGC 63 is worth more than a PCGS 62. There really is that much of a PCGS preference/premium for many series. Rarer gold issues and early federal coinage especially come to mind.
Who knows for sure there are not many of these, and if they come to auction and you want an MS coin, there are only 3 of the less than 65 known for the date. Its why I had to pay neary 2x what it sold for in 2018.
I'm a big fan of CAC, good luck. I've always requested notes on coins that don't get the sticker, they often find things I missed.
Way cool piece. But yeah, no doubt it’s been tried — the large facial hit plus the reverse gunk — it would be a miracle if it beans. But JA sometimes works in mysterious ways, like Coin Jesus.
I would respectfully vote against any attempt at conservation on this piece.
Why? It has progressed quite a bit in 8 years. What is to stop it from getting worse?
The 10 year deadline ends in 2028. I would address this with NGC before they attempt to further restrict the guarantee.
Is there real evidence of this? Different photos can be misleading as to changes. When I've heard dealers talk about selling a coin before it "turns in the holder" usually there has been a significant bias. And what type of substances cause degradation? Usually it's only puttied surfaces. Think of it--a sealed coin, non-reactive metals, how are they going to change or permit something to "get worse".
You can compare the auction photos. Differences in imagining techniques doesn’t make it magically appear especially as extensive as it is. The coin was crossed in October 2018 shortly after the Stacks sale. It didn’t show in NGC’s images either.
I’m wondering if it was submitted in a PVC flip or it had inconspicuous inactive PVC that became active when cracked and exposed to Florida heat and humidity. If it is PVC, it should clean up well. If that is some sort of corrosion of base metal near the surface, I would be much more concerned.
Thoughts ?
Personally I've never had an issue with an old slab coin or more recent one getting worse. PVC, Bondo etc. always dipped out for me sometimes with a better grade.
One example:
This dipped out and graded as MS63. Acetone; never use "MS70" on gold or copper coins.