@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Holy geez, all the Pokemon and OnePiece and TCG stuff, no wonder everyone's pissed!
Thats why I thought the crew is Pokemon focused. It was well known that the backlog was caused by Pokemon and TCG, so its not surprising that stealing a bunch of random orders would yield a lot of those singles.
I expect we will hear about another Oceans 11 type Pokemon robbery.
I noticed some poor Frank Viola collector lost his lifes work.
@1982FootballWax said:
I feel for the Frank Viola fan. Looks like he lost decades of collecting his favorite player.
This brings up an interesting thought: We constantly discuss and argue over the value and importance of high profile cards, but there's a lot of people who just submit cards for the sake of having them slabbed for collecting purposes. Who's gonna buy a horde of graded Frank Violas? Or all the other junk cards we laugh about? That list says a lot about the current situation at PSA. I was stunned to see a smattering of actual old vintage cards on that list. But, come on, how many Pokemon does it take to keep this world happy? WTF?
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
If Fedex workers dont want to steal (allegedly) pallets of cards, they can still steal (allegedly) individual cards from ebay authentication from PSAs well known address.
"But when the package arrived, I noticed the perforated tear-away strip on the FedEx mailer had been taped back together rather sloppily.
When I opened it, the eBay authentication box inside had already been cut open, and the card was missing. Looking more closely at the FedEx mailer, I could see it had been slit open and taped back up, too."
The timing of this robbery is interesting also when looking at what has been happening with Pokemon card sales in the month before it happened. There was an almost Gamestop feeling to the increase in sales prices of Pokemon cards in maybe late September early October. The earliest stuff that has lower POPs, early 2000s First Edition, went up like 300% 400% in the blink of an eye. Seriously on a Monday maybe this card goes for $800 Thursday $3000 and not much air has come out since the prices have gone up. If you do a completed sales search on Pokemon Edition PSA 8 or 9 Holo and look at the last two months your jaw is kind of on the floor.
It has a feel like big money is trying to get hold of all available copies to control and inflate the price. Its much easier to do with that early stuff because less is available. Like 1950s Topps baseball in high grade. The POPs on the current stuff have a junk wax feel even though they are currently expensive and hard to pull. Its just the print run is enormous compared to earlier stuff when it was less popular, more of a game that kids played, less of a valuable collectible card situation. COVID got a huge amount of people wanting to play the graded Trading Card Game from an investment angle.
I took a quick look at the list of cards stolen and there was a space with a ton of Pokemon pre-2005 cards and that is probably where the bulk of the value came from. So kind of feels like this story would not be surprising if it happened in July but maybe a little more of an eyebrow-raiser when you see that we probably had to have multiple big money institutions deciding to play this game inflating the prices of some cards recently about 300 to 400%. Then some guy leaves his truck with $1M sitting around while he takes his time eating his Chik-fil-A lunch.
Its like there is talk of whether someone knew about what was on the truck or not but I would think most FedEx trucks leaving PSA have 500K to 1M worth of stuff on it. I think its just at the point where you need to have the cast of Heat with their machine guns in the back of the truck. Or just treat it like a Wells Fargo truck full of cash.
Another angle that occurred to me after I hit post is the value of the cards based on recent average sales prices would be off the charts higher than whatever the value of the cards were at the time the cards were insured. Because the value at the time of submission, even a month ago, would be so much lower. So if you paid the value of what the cards were insured at, while also looking at the discussed angle of customers insuring at a low value to save money, that insured value would be astronomically lower than what the cards would sell for or what they are worth today.
I would hope the driver was eating something less pedestrian than that. I'd like to think it was a French Dip from Philippe The Original or a Chili Dog from Pinks or a Scallop / Fish Taco
BTW the price jumps you mentioned have a bubbly feeling to them..
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
BTW the price jumps you mentioned have a bubbly feeling to them..
I hear you but so did Mickey Mantle cards at one time and it kind of feels like its never ever been a bad time to buy his cards if you hold them long enough. I remember sports cards have had a period, maybe sometime between 2015 to 2020-I remember feeling it at the Atlantic City National, where they were massively inflated and it felt like a market manipulation bubble situation. They pulled back a little and it could have felt like a mistake buying then but today those inflated prices look like bargains.
I think it could be bubbly if you bought two weeks ago and have to sell in four months. But think 10 years from now these Pokemon cards with low POPs from pre-2020 will continue to have a similar increase in value that we have seen in sports cards over the years. Basic supply and demand. The supply is low and the demand is high and I think will remain high because TCG for these generations has the same emotional ties that sports have for us.
@RonSportscards said:
If Fedex workers dont want to steal (allegedly) pallets of cards, they can still steal (allegedly) individual cards from ebay authentication from PSAs well known address.
One of my buyers recently filed a item not received for a card that went thru authentication. It shows delivered but he says he never received it. Ebay is dealing with it right now. This is the first time this has happened of the hundred or so cards I sent ebay authentication.
It looks like there may be a rat or rats at FedEx.
More if graded? Thats so pre COVID. Stickers command more now.
The canary in the coal mine is the day Pokemon makes a 1/1. It has to be soon right? They have been around for 30 years now.
@craig44 said:
looking through that list, some folks grade some weird cards. what is with grading 88 topps big mike laVallierre at $50+ a pop?
I counted 8 or 9 Mike LaValliere cards on that same page
yeah, its weird.
Could be a family member or maybe even LaValliere himself. Not uncommon these days. I imagine LaValliere finding out about this and thinking "Well, that was a bright idea!"
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
I went to a card show today. Advertised as 600+ tables. $20 for parking. $25 to get in. Okay, down $45 before I step foot into the building. I get in, and the first 3 rows to the left are sports cards, while the other 25 rows are Pokémon.
Collector Brian Shafer is offering a reward According to CollectorRecovery.org. “I’m actually offering a $5,000 to $10,000 reward of my own money, and I have zero affiliation with PSA or FedEx,” Shafer said. “But it’s mainly to kind of do something ourselves as a card community.”
@bgr said:
FedEx truck as in linehaul, shorthaul, or P&D?
I am anxious to understand this one better. It could be an inside job or coerced but that's so obvious that it seems like it shouldn't be true. FedEx and all the major shippers support options for high-value transport. team driver, secured trailer, no unattended stops rule. If my cards were on there I would be talking to an attorney about a negligence case. I expect to see a class action for this - I don't think PSA's FMV calculator works.
I'm loathe to agree with you in general but you are 100% correct man
U cant have a negligence case when u have a contract..
@bgr said:
FedEx truck as in linehaul, shorthaul, or P&D?
I am anxious to understand this one better. It could be an inside job or coerced but that's so obvious that it seems like it shouldn't be true. FedEx and all the major shippers support options for high-value transport. team driver, secured trailer, no unattended stops rule. If my cards were on there I would be talking to an attorney about a negligence case. I expect to see a class action for this - I don't think PSA's FMV calculator works.
I'm loathe to agree with you in general but you are 100% correct man
U cant have a negligence case when u have a contract..
@bgr said:
FedEx truck as in linehaul, shorthaul, or P&D?
I am anxious to understand this one better. It could be an inside job or coerced but that's so obvious that it seems like it shouldn't be true. FedEx and all the major shippers support options for high-value transport. team driver, secured trailer, no unattended stops rule. If my cards were on there I would be talking to an attorney about a negligence case. I expect to see a class action for this - I don't think PSA's FMV calculator works.
I'm loathe to agree with you in general but you are 100% correct man
U cant have a negligence case when u have a contract..
Are you sure you mean what you’ve said?
Economic Loss Rule may prevent a negligence claim.
@bgr said:
FedEx truck as in linehaul, shorthaul, or P&D?
I am anxious to understand this one better. It could be an inside job or coerced but that's so obvious that it seems like it shouldn't be true. FedEx and all the major shippers support options for high-value transport. team driver, secured trailer, no unattended stops rule. If my cards were on there I would be talking to an attorney about a negligence case. I expect to see a class action for this - I don't think PSA's FMV calculator works.
I'm loathe to agree with you in general but you are 100% correct man
U cant have a negligence case when u have a contract..
Are you sure you mean what you’ve said?
Additionally, the contract mandates that any legal disputes cannot be taken to a standard court or a class-action lawsuit. You are legally bound to mandatory binding arbitration under California law, which heavily discourages collectors from trying to sue PSA for values beyond what the contract already promises.
Additionally, the contract explicitly states that third-party carriers (like FedEx, UPS, or USPS) are not agents of PSA. Once a package is marked as successfully delivered or handled by a carrier, PSA uses clauses stating they bear no responsibility for standard transit negligence or third-party criminal acts (theft) unless direct negligence by PSA's internal staff can be proven.
Now tell me how is a negligence claim or a class action suit going to survive a motion to dismiss when u have an arbitration clause ?
I think PSA will come thru and make everyone whole.
I understand. Economic loss is the primary barrier with a breach here. The negligence would be the next step based on the cause of the loss. Without knowing the details of the theft it’s not possible to say but there could be a custody argument here. It’s not about ordinary negligence - you would need to make an argument for gross. Anyways.
There are some limits being established which are bad for collectors. $1500 max, based not on grade but on collector submission if lower.
So you want an example of a gross negligence claim being successfully argued in court when a contract with recovery control exists between parties? Which jurisdiction. It is much more common than you’re alluding. Oddly enough “leaving high value items unsecured and/ or unattended” is a boiler plate gross negligence claim. Which state do you practice in out of curiosity?
Comments
I feel for the Frank Viola fan. Looks like he lost decades of collecting his favorite player.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Thats why I thought the crew is Pokemon focused. It was well known that the backlog was caused by Pokemon and TCG, so its not surprising that stealing a bunch of random orders would yield a lot of those singles.
I expect we will hear about another Oceans 11 type Pokemon robbery.
I noticed some poor Frank Viola collector lost his lifes work.
This brings up an interesting thought: We constantly discuss and argue over the value and importance of high profile cards, but there's a lot of people who just submit cards for the sake of having them slabbed for collecting purposes. Who's gonna buy a horde of graded Frank Violas? Or all the other junk cards we laugh about? That list says a lot about the current situation at PSA. I was stunned to see a smattering of actual old vintage cards on that list. But, come on, how many Pokemon does it take to keep this world happy? WTF?
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
If Fedex workers dont want to steal (allegedly) pallets of cards, they can still steal (allegedly) individual cards from ebay authentication from PSAs well known address.
Yet another one...
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/1xd4nkr/card_stolen_after_ebay_authentication/
"But when the package arrived, I noticed the perforated tear-away strip on the FedEx mailer had been taped back together rather sloppily.
When I opened it, the eBay authentication box inside had already been cut open, and the card was missing. Looking more closely at the FedEx mailer, I could see it had been slit open and taped back up, too."
looking through that list, some folks grade some weird cards. what is with grading 88 topps big mike laVallierre at $50+ a pop?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Probaby sent before early June but yeah even at 25 per card its a lot. But I get it. after all Ive submitted 1985 Dan Pasquas and 1984 Juan Espinos
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I pulled up PSA's list of the 6,451 items by my old eyeballs couldn't handle the print.
There should be a plus sign icon at the top of the page that will allow you to zoom in as much as you need to
A's World Championships-1910, 1911, 1913, 1929, 1930, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1989
I counted 8 or 9 Mike LaValliere cards on that same page
A's World Championships-1910, 1911, 1913, 1929, 1930, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1989
The timing of this robbery is interesting also when looking at what has been happening with Pokemon card sales in the month before it happened. There was an almost Gamestop feeling to the increase in sales prices of Pokemon cards in maybe late September early October. The earliest stuff that has lower POPs, early 2000s First Edition, went up like 300% 400% in the blink of an eye. Seriously on a Monday maybe this card goes for $800 Thursday $3000 and not much air has come out since the prices have gone up. If you do a completed sales search on Pokemon Edition PSA 8 or 9 Holo and look at the last two months your jaw is kind of on the floor.
It has a feel like big money is trying to get hold of all available copies to control and inflate the price. Its much easier to do with that early stuff because less is available. Like 1950s Topps baseball in high grade. The POPs on the current stuff have a junk wax feel even though they are currently expensive and hard to pull. Its just the print run is enormous compared to earlier stuff when it was less popular, more of a game that kids played, less of a valuable collectible card situation. COVID got a huge amount of people wanting to play the graded Trading Card Game from an investment angle.
I took a quick look at the list of cards stolen and there was a space with a ton of Pokemon pre-2005 cards and that is probably where the bulk of the value came from. So kind of feels like this story would not be surprising if it happened in July but maybe a little more of an eyebrow-raiser when you see that we probably had to have multiple big money institutions deciding to play this game inflating the prices of some cards recently about 300 to 400%. Then some guy leaves his truck with $1M sitting around while he takes his time eating his Chik-fil-A lunch.
Its like there is talk of whether someone knew about what was on the truck or not but I would think most FedEx trucks leaving PSA have 500K to 1M worth of stuff on it. I think its just at the point where you need to have the cast of Heat with their machine guns in the back of the truck. Or just treat it like a Wells Fargo truck full of cash.
Another angle that occurred to me after I hit post is the value of the cards based on recent average sales prices would be off the charts higher than whatever the value of the cards were at the time the cards were insured. Because the value at the time of submission, even a month ago, would be so much lower. So if you paid the value of what the cards were insured at, while also looking at the discussed angle of customers insuring at a low value to save money, that insured value would be astronomically lower than what the cards would sell for or what they are worth today.
I would hope the driver was eating something less pedestrian than that. I'd like to think it was a French Dip from Philippe The Original or a Chili Dog from Pinks or a Scallop / Fish Taco
BTW the price jumps you mentioned have a bubbly feeling to them..
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I hear you but so did Mickey Mantle cards at one time and it kind of feels like its never ever been a bad time to buy his cards if you hold them long enough. I remember sports cards have had a period, maybe sometime between 2015 to 2020-I remember feeling it at the Atlantic City National, where they were massively inflated and it felt like a market manipulation bubble situation. They pulled back a little and it could have felt like a mistake buying then but today those inflated prices look like bargains.
I think it could be bubbly if you bought two weeks ago and have to sell in four months. But think 10 years from now these Pokemon cards with low POPs from pre-2020 will continue to have a similar increase in value that we have seen in sports cards over the years. Basic supply and demand. The supply is low and the demand is high and I think will remain high because TCG for these generations has the same emotional ties that sports have for us.
*****NEW TANGENT ALERT***NEW TANGENT ALERT*****
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
I only need 4SharpCorners and WNBA sucks and I got a Bingo!
Out of curiosity. was just browsing that list for Ohtani cards - 89 of them, but dang, someone lost this:
2026 TOPPS SILVER PACK 1991 CHROME ALL-STARS 50 SHOHEI OHTANI SUPERFRACTOR 1/1
Wonder what the PSA compensation offer is on that...or why even grade a 1/1 anyway?!
One of my buyers recently filed a item not received for a card that went thru authentication. It shows delivered but he says he never received it. Ebay is dealing with it right now. This is the first time this has happened of the hundred or so cards I sent ebay authentication.
It looks like there may be a rat or rats at FedEx.
Do 1/1's command more if graded?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Yes. It athenicates thee card.
More if graded? Thats so pre COVID. Stickers command more now.
The canary in the coal mine is the day Pokemon makes a 1/1. It has to be soon right? They have been around for 30 years now.
yeah, its weird.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That’s the thing about Pokémon and Pokémon thieves…
…gotta catch ‘em all.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Thieves prolly usin' the Sports Cards from the haul as TP
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
To be transacted and redistributed. Much of it unknown to anyone.
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
Could be a family member or maybe even LaValliere himself. Not uncommon these days. I imagine LaValliere finding out about this and thinking "Well, that was a bright idea!"
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
Speaking of robberies...
I went to a card show today. Advertised as 600+ tables. $20 for parking. $25 to get in. Okay, down $45 before I step foot into the building. I get in, and the first 3 rows to the left are sports cards, while the other 25 rows are Pokémon.
3,234 Pokemon cards out of 6,451 cards total.
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
I'm legit surprised the ratio wasn't higher. I'd expect more like 75/25 split.
Collector Brian Shafer is offering a reward According to CollectorRecovery.org. “I’m actually offering a $5,000 to $10,000 reward of my own money, and I have zero affiliation with PSA or FedEx,” Shafer said. “But it’s mainly to kind of do something ourselves as a card community.”
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
U cant have a negligence case when u have a contract..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Are you sure you mean what you’ve said?
Economic Loss Rule may prevent a negligence claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Additionally, the contract mandates that any legal disputes cannot be taken to a standard court or a class-action lawsuit. You are legally bound to mandatory binding arbitration under California law, which heavily discourages collectors from trying to sue PSA for values beyond what the contract already promises.
Additionally, the contract explicitly states that third-party carriers (like FedEx, UPS, or USPS) are not agents of PSA. Once a package is marked as successfully delivered or handled by a carrier, PSA uses clauses stating they bear no responsibility for standard transit negligence or third-party criminal acts (theft) unless direct negligence by PSA's internal staff can be proven.
Now tell me how is a negligence claim or a class action suit going to survive a motion to dismiss when u have an arbitration clause ?
I think PSA will come thru and make everyone whole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
I understand. Economic loss is the primary barrier with a breach here. The negligence would be the next step based on the cause of the loss. Without knowing the details of the theft it’s not possible to say but there could be a custody argument here. It’s not about ordinary negligence - you would need to make an argument for gross. Anyways.
There are some limits being established which are bad for collectors. $1500 max, based not on grade but on collector submission if lower.
So you want an example of a gross negligence claim being successfully argued in court when a contract with recovery control exists between parties? Which jurisdiction. It is much more common than you’re alluding. Oddly enough “leaving high value items unsecured and/ or unattended” is a boiler plate gross negligence claim. Which state do you practice in out of curiosity?
This lawyer shares his view on where the liability lies in the PSA theft. Maybe a couple of good learnings for coin collectors too.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=YOI32jVeraU