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1936 brilliant proof buffalo nickel in a slab -- comments on carbon spots? What grade would u give?
BUFFNIXX
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1936 brilliant proof buffalo nickel in a slab -- comments on carbon spots?
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
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That's the most carbon spotting I've seen on a coin.
Did that appear after the coin was slabbed?
Pete
Carbon flecks aren’t uncommon on these. I find them distracting and would seek out another example.
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
A good candidate for conservation. I’ve had good luck conserving nickel.
I wonder if those spots can be removed or at least made lighter using the PCGS conservation service.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Looks like me trying to take a photo in the summer... through a swarm of mosquitos. Not my thing. I look forward to see what the consensus here is about these spots, grade and price.
I would grade and price it as a 60, but would not buy it except as a conservation candidate.
Somebody just had to sneeze on both sides of that one.....I'm afraid that's all I would see when I looked at that poor thing.....
There is no way it looked like that when it was slabbed. I would hope anyway.
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64 would be the max IMO
Collector, occasional seller
Without a doubt, the ugliest Bison ever in a -64 holder.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
I would grade it ooooofffff!
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I’ve seen lots of 36-37 proof Buffs like that in Wayte Raymond and similar holders. Probably looked exactly like that when slabbed.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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Looks properly graded to me based on what I see.
Coin Photography
If you feel that way, you need to get out more and view lots of other 64’s.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Andy, my guess is that you’re correct about the coin having looked like that when it was graded. But, if that was the case, do you think it should have graded that high? I don’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That coin is nowhere near PR-64; it’s PR-61 at best. I’d grade it PR-60.
i have read a number of times that carbon spots cannot be removed.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Carbon spots will definetly not come off.
If you like the coin thats all that matters.
If it does bother you sell it and buy another one.
I am surprised that PCGS straight graded as a PR64.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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Typically, carbon spots cannot be removed without damaging a coin’s surface.
And for the purpose of accuracy, the coin was graded PR64, not MS64.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld Mark I honestly meant to say "will definetly NOT come off" and I missed the PR.
You got me!
Im going to edit now.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
JWP PROMETHIUS88
Then you must not think that carbon spots should impact a coin’s grade much at all.
In the case of this coin, If you start with a grade of 70 and work your way down from there, deducting only 1 point for every 10 spots, you’d still end up with a grade below 60.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
PF62 max and even then it would trade at a discount. More like an ugly PF60-61.
I’d like to see the owner at least try it. It can’t get much worse than.
I’d be interested in seeing the result if it was crossed to CACG using “Any grade” as the minimum grade.
I’m impressed you actually counted all of them. As a seller, I’d try to market it as the rare small pox variety and hope to break even. 🤣
If you know of an uglier PR- or MS64 Bison, please post it for our edification!
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
If CAC had stickered this one, would anyone on this thread have a change of opinion?
I didn’t count all of them - just enough to be confident it was more than 100😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Edification will have to come from elsewhere, as I don’t feel like spending the time to do that. But if I’d only seen a few uglier examples I wouldn’t have posted what I did.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Correct, PCGS does not appear to see carbon spotting as a significant grade limiting factor. Whether or not I agree with that is a different story.
See:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1937-5c-pr64-cameo-pcgs-pcgs-83996-/a/1189-3356.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1937-5c-pr64-cameo-pcgs-pcgs-83996-/a/1294-3247.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1936-5c-type-two-brilliant-finish-pr64-pcgs-cac-cac-population-25-307-mintage-4-420-pcgs-3995-/a/60447-52088.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1937-5c-pr64-pcgs-pcgs-population-459-2133-and-1-126-ngc-census-227-1308-and-1-32-cdn-875-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-pr64-mintage/a/132144-21209.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1937-5c-pr64-pcgs-pcgs-population-456-2130-and-1-123-ngc-census-226-1302-and-1-26-cdn-875-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-pr64-mintage/a/132102-23270.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1937-5c-pr64-pcgs-pcgs-population-457-2114-ngc-census-225-1289-pr64-mintage-5-769-pcgs-3996-/a/131944-29153.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515#
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/2017909/1937-Buffalo-Nickel-PCGS-Proof-64-CAC-Green-OGH-from-photo#gallery-3
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1822069/1937-Buffalo-Nickel-NGC-Proof-64-from-photo#gallery-3
Coin Photography
A coin to be avoided. Nothing but trouble for the owner.
Please share your different story.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Maybe that is a ‘locust plague’ variety…🤔😬
I'd grade them slightly lower based on severity of the spotting. 62 is probably the lowest I would go though.
Coin Photography
That is certainly some negative eye appeal, I agree with those who feel that a grade of PF60 would be more appropriate for this coin.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
In fairness, the spotting on the first cameo proof buffalo nickel is not as bad in hand or at least wasn’t when I handled it 10-15 years ago. I bought the piece on eBay and the photos weren’t the greatest. The spots jumped out less in hand than the Heritage image, but still enough to make me return the coin. The contrasts were weak as well.
Interesting thread. I avoid carbon spots like the plague, almost without exception. I was always told that they only get worse over time. In my eyes, enough of them ruin the coin. If it were up to me, the subject coin would be details-graded. ED.
Eets not spotted, eets a snowy day on the plains!
I have seen an ample number of proof Buffalo nickels (and owned a fair number as well, including two that I currently own), and none was spotted to that extent. I am sorry but it PR-64 seems optimistic.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
Here is a 1915 proof having the same type of spotting but not nearly as bad.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
here is a 1913 type 1 matte proof buffalo with a huge carbon spot on the reverse above FIVE CENTS on the raised ground
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I was looking at 1936 brilliant proof buffalos at ANA. Black flecks seem pervasive, but they're not the same as the carbon spots that look like corrosion from a moisture droplet. They seem to just sit on the surface and not eat into the coin. Nevertheless, I'm not a fan.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Both of those look way better than the OP’s “BLACK RAIN” specimen.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Black snow?
OK. Black snow for Black Diamond,
Pete
Those black spots aren’t common from that era on both Buffalo and Jefferson Proofs, but I have seen enough of them to believe they aren’t the result of sneezing and water droplets. More than likely they come from contaminants in the planchets. I don’t believe they can be removed with a dip or any other conservation method, they are part of the coin.
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