Let's talk Pedigrees (provenance) .......
Harlequin
Posts: 265 ✭✭✭
As for myself, I have always found that the pedigree of a coin for some reason seems to grab my attention more, and seems to add an extra layer of interest to the coin. There have been times when I've seen identically graded coins sitting side by side on a table and the one with the pedigree always seems more interesting to me even though the coins are the same grade and almost identical in appearance. I just find that knowing the lineage of a coin is so much more interesting as it is always cool to see how the coin has transferred over the years (if applicable to multiple pedigrees) and just imagining how the coins were actually transacted or traded amongst early collectors! I personally have only owned one coin in the past that had a pedigree, it was an early US type coin (Eliasberg).
As is, I am interested in knowing how you feel about coins with a pedigree in general and does the pedigree have an affect on the price that you would pay or ask if you were buying or selling a coin with a pedigree versus a coin without a pedigree, and also is the price action higher for pedigree coins at major auctions versus non pedigree coins based on what you've seen over the years ........... 😎
🇺🇸 Harlequin
harlequinnumismatic@gmail.com
Home of the Americana Collection of USA silver coins
Comments
At what point is a coin actually declared a pedigree? What are the key factors verifying a pedigree coin? Are there modern pedigrees?
GREAT TOPIC! I value the provenance of a coin highly! Here is one example from my meager collection.
1847 N-7b Copy 2 EF40/VF30+ (EF40/VF35) Rim Cud Break at Star 1. RARE. CC#6 out of 14 Known; EX: Butterworth/ Col Steve Ellsworth 7/29/2014; EX: Doug Bird 11/94; EX: Nick D’Amico; EX: Bob Grellman; EX: Rothmont; EX: Kolbas, ANA 1991. Rotated 12⁰ CW.
Here is a nice resource for establishing provenance of early copper:
Is that supposed to be "Butternut", rather than "Butterworth"?
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
Pedigrees are important to me as a matter of information, but do not influence what I'll pay for a coin. At least that's what I tell myself. The only time I went out of my way to get pedigreed coins was when I went to LA for the Super Bowl Sunday 2009 sale of the Naftzger middle date large cents. I was fortunate to get six lovely gems that day.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
I think you are correct!
In my mind, pedigrees are for dogs and horses while provenances are for objects.
I value them highly in some cases and find them detrimental in others. To me the value is in tracing the history especially through the multi generational or important collections of the past. Of course the coin must stand on its one but when matched with a deeper historical connection via its ownership chai, I find a deeper connection to the coin. Modern assemblage's of coins put together quickly and then branded as a collection are meaningless to me and I get them out of that holder quickly.
I just sent this in to PCGS to have the Virgil Brand provenance added. It was in the 1964 Schulman sale of a part of his estate. About 50% of my collection carries a notable provenance I have been able to trace.
Latin American Collection
I've always been crazy about the Clapp->Eliasberg coins.
I agree with Boosibri that coins should have provenances. The problem is that pedigree has been accepted by many collectors over the years. And by most if not all of the grading companies and auction houses too.
I am also a big fan of Clapp/Eliasberg coins Eldorado9. Lots of other big names like Norweb, James Stack, Pittman and many others with great collections in the past.
I think that a good provenance adds a definite cool factor that would make a coin more desirable. I am not going to pay crazy money but would stretch a bit for a provenance. It is still possible to find coins that have lost their history and with some research the prior owners can be found. I have had success in the past at PCGS with Norweb and Eliasberg coins.
I don't search specifically for Provenances. I did manage to snag this piece:
PF 66, Jules Reiver
I definitely agree and I was thinking about that when I posted but I figured "pedigree" would be more familiar to most since the term is so widely used in the hobby. I will include provenance in the title as well, thanks for posting 😎
🇺🇸 Harlequin
harlequinnumismatic@gmail.com
Home of the Americana Collection of USA silver coins
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Anything Garrett, Elisberg scarce date sells for huge dollars.
IMO Fairmont scarce date CAC will be solid.
That is not necessarily true, if the coin isn't there it doesn't . Both men had a great amount of material and not all of it was top notch especially since their kids inherited their coin collections and added to it, and that imo is when the collections got a bit diluted.
For example Eliasberg bought the Clapp collection which was phenomenal and when he passed who knows whar was added . And as to T. Harrison , he died young and his son John continued collecting. I personally rather have T.Harrison's material.
The Clapp collection reinforces my perception.
If you could provide an example of a scarce date from Garrett/Eliasberg that didn't sell way over guide that would be interesting, and I might try to buy it.
I am unable to do so. I think Garrett & Eliasberg are both great provenances but I am not blinded by any famous provenance because it is always all about the coin. But knowing that when both well known collectors died and their son's took over the collection things could very well change and upon sale be added to the original collection established by their father. So one always has to have this knowledege and never blindly buy a coin just because it comes with the famous provenance. name