Is this typical??
TopoftheHill
Posts: 203 ✭✭✭
There is a Trade Dollar in an upcoming Heritage auction that I was thinking about bidding on. The problem is that the certification number does not show up in the PCGS data base, So I sent a note to both Heritage and PCGS asking if the coin was authentic and if i could get it reholdered if I purchased it.
Heritage: NO response. Disappointing!!
PCGS: this is the response below ...and PCGS keeps asking me for a response to "move forward"...whatever that means. Bottom line: a part of the response tells me PCGS is NOT going to guarantee authenticity. "IF" the coin does prove to be authentic???
Thank you for contacting PCGS Customer Care. My name is Quentin, and I will be happy to assist you.
Beautiful coin, thank you for the images.
Though the slab is being auctioned off at a Heritage auction event, there are no guarantees that we can reholder the coin.
If the coin does prove to be authentic, then yes, we can reholder it.
The cert is not active due to the age. If it gets reholdered, there are options to reactivate the cert number or even get a whole new cert number.
If there is anything else that I can assist you with, please let me know.
Comments
That's not very helpful. How do certification numbers become deactivated in the first place? That should change.
@MFeld - Can you fix this? This can't be good for the consignor.
I’m confident that the coin is genuine and that there’s a glitch in the PCGS system. This occurs from time to time.
I was told that the lots for the sale in question are on display at the GACC show in Rosemont. So I’ll try to reach a colleague there to see if they can examine it.
Please message me privately with your email address and client number and I’ll be in touch when I have additional information.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Looks like PCGS just needs to put it back into their database. I don't know why you would want to re-holder it.
Really nice looking coin from the OP. But...I would keep the original, older holder, unless there was an issue with the condition of the holder, which it looks good to me.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Typical? No as there are many older slabs with good active cert numbers. However, it does happen. I did a thread on mine, just killing some time. Coincidently it is the same slab type and a 7 digit cert number. As I noted they were not able to reactivate my cert number back when I tried. But I wondered about today. I still have it and no plans to change it or sell.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1115164/1882-cc-story-from-something-to-nothing
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwZlYz2V4AM Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover Paranoid (Black Sabbath)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fbEW8BrNctI Haley Reinhart, Don't Know How To Love You Live (direct to record)
RLJ 1958 - 2023
To be clear, there was no doubt to me that it is authentic. I didn’t want the serial number to taint the coin for others. Although I want to believe every potential bidder is sophisticated, I think that is unlikely. It is ridiculous that Heritage and its consignor have to deal with this issue. PCGS needs to figure out why coins are becoming deactivated and work to fix the issue.
I wasn't aware that a cert number could become invalid due to age. I thought all of the cert numbers from even the oldest holders still worked.
I just pulled up an OGH cert number, seven digits, one of the few I have, and it came up normally. However, when I tried to pull up another coin, with a 8 digit s/n, that I was inquiring about with a dealer;
We're sorry, certification number XXXXXXXX was not found. Please double check the number and try again. If the issue persists, contact support.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I’d be very surprised if (just) the age of the cert is the issue.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Understood and thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The statement from the PCGS rep was pretty definitive: The cert is not active due to the age.
@PCGS_Hy Can you provide more information about cert numbers becoming invalid due to their age? I think most of us long time members are surprised by this.
The other linked thread above is also a coin that appears to be of the same generation holder. Are any other generations/eras known to be affected? With the fanfare and premiums older plastic holders receive, I would be quite upset to lose an older holder in a reholder to fix a glitch not of my making.
The Statement from PCGS and Quentin is AI, and the glitch is with both the response and the conclusion.
The cert is inactive almost certainly due to a glitch on the part of PCGS or an inadvertent delisting within PCGS. However, the response you received was near total garbage.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Yes, almost certainly AI.. Messages from PCGS since (that are certainly AI):
It's been a few days since we've heard from you! This is an automated message to remind you that we need some additional information from you to move forward. If we don't hear back from you in 3 days, we'll assume it's safe to mark this issue as resolved.
This automated message is to remind you that we're needing a response from you in order to move forward with the request. If we don't hear back from you in 1 day, we'll assume it's safe to mark this ticket as resolved.
Please respond at your earliest convenience.
I have no idea what AI is asking for.......
I think you’re being asked whether you want to proceed with submitting the coin for re-holdering.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was hoping it was asking for photos of the front and back of the slab so they can re-activate the cert information.
@Batman23 ...photos from the Heritage website were included with both original question submissions to PCGS and Heritage.
@pcgs_social, are you able to help with this or can you point me to someone who can?
This coin (with PCGS cert number 2828706) is being auctioned next week.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-trade-dollars/1882-t-1-pr66-cameo-pcgs-jd-1-r2-pcgs-87062-/a/1397-3441.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515
Your cert lookup page says "We're sorry, certification number 2828706 was not found. Please double check the number and try again. If the issue persists, contact support.Contact Support".
Thank you for your consideration.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Stand by for Quentin to contact you.
Back in January, I was adding some coins to MyCollect and also checking to see if my PCGS coins have TVs. A handful came up with inactive cert numbers, including a 3CS with a gold bean and a finest known 1848 V-9 half dime with green bean (about which I posted here). That half dime was the first one I found with the problem. I contacted PCGS and after providing photos of the slab was told I'd have to submit the coin for "Holder Check" and pay the return shipping. I complained about that (politely), and did not receive a response. But the certification number was reactivated soon after. I did not inquire about the other inactive cert numbers, but they too were reactivated within a week or two.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
No, probably not AI. People think everything is AI now, but most things are still just programmed automation and email templates that have existed for decades. CRM and support ticket software has had automated follow-up emails long before AI became a real thing. A good support ticket system will remind the user that a response is needed every x days or timeout if not response is received. Basic stuff.
Hi Collectors,
The Cert Verification page for this coin has been restored.
Isa (she/her)
Lead Moderator
Thank you so very much!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.