1849D $5 gold Liberty-will it cross?
I just picked up this $5 1849D ngc au50.
Based on the pictures do you think it will cross at pcgs?
I am concerned with the small nick by the D.
Comments
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I personally don't like the color, but that doesn't mean that PCGS won't like the color.
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I pasted the PCGS stats from their site to show the few number of crossovers that actually happen. These NGC holders where the graders can't see the edge of the coin are less likely to cross in my experience. Given the low extant population for this date and the value of the coin in a PCGS holder it will be a tough one.
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Hard to tell based off your pics but IMO NGC was stricter on their gold grades than our host was back in the era of that slab so I would say it had a good shot. Then again what is pointed out above regarding lack of visibility of the edge doesn't help matters. Guess there's only one way to find out. Good luck. RGDS!
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The photos make it look cleaned plus, to my eye, it has far too much wear to merit any AU grade.
All glory is fleeting.6 -
To me, the color looks too processed and generic, and it looks like XF wear to me. So I wouldn't count on it crossing at AU.
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Regardless of crossover statistics and how strict NGC was (or wasn’t) at the time the coin was graded, it looks cleaned to the extent that it won’t cross. That aside, the amount of wear and the marked surfaces also hurt its chances.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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I don’t think so.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.0 -
No; a coin of that value has been tried already. Typical glassy cleaned look; compare with all the others around the same grade.
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@logger7 said:
No; a coin of that value has been tried already.That possibility or probability, in itself, isn’t a good reason to dismiss the coin’s chances of crossing. Assessments of the coin are far more meaningful.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Smoothed not original... doubt it crosses at all.
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Not only will it not cross, it wont grade either IMO, in fact, if cracked and resubmitted to ngc, it most likely wouldnt either
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Had you posted the coin without the holder, I would have guessed XF details -cleaned. It definitely has a processed look to me. I think the odds of a cross at grade are very small.
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I would return it if you can or submit it as a guarantee submission and see if NGC will give you a partial payout and keep the coin since you like it.
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Tough crowd! I suspect Mark and TomB are correct but I would like to see it in hand. It certainly has been processed but most Lib half eagles from that era have had some amount of help and many have made it in straight holders (look at many Fairmont coins from the 1840/50s for what an unprocessed coin looks like) .
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
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It looks dipped but I don't see any hairlines that would indicate a cleaning. Gold from the Dahlonega region had a higher silver content and tend to be lighter in color.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire2 -
Why not try to cross it with a minimum grade of XF45? It gives the graders more leeway. I agree with others that it looks processed but if you want it in a PCGS holder. The downcross strategy will improve the likelihood and, should it not cross, it’s a clearer indication of a potential problem coin. Price wise shouldn’t make a difference.
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From comments above and my own opinion skeptical it will cross.
Investor0 -
@earlyAurum said:
Why not try to cross it with a minimum grade of XF45? It gives the graders more leeway. I agree with others that it looks processed but if you want it in a PCGS holder. The downcross strategy will improve the likelihood and, should it not cross, it’s a clearer indication of a potential problem coin. Price wise shouldn’t make a difference.I'm still not convinced it would cross at XF45, but if he keeps the coin, I do think your strategy is sound. This is how I would handle the coin.
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Thank you for the comments.
I like @earlyaurum idea.
Worst case if it comes back xf45 I ended up maybe over paying but according to pcgs survival is only 185 and it would still be a straight grade Dahlonega. That would be a coin and holder I want.If it doesn't cross then I will probably trade it away.
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No. I’d leave it in its very generously NGC-graded holder.
Got Crust....y gold?3 -
@CharlotteDude said:
No. I’d leave it in its very generously NGC-graded holder.Assuming he keeps it, why? The difference between PCGS XF45 and NGC AU50 would likely be a wash.
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Cleaned to heck and net graded, I'd leave it be.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
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Based on your pics, I’ve seen way ‘worse’ examples in PCGS plastic. I own a few myself!
I think it might cross. I wouldn’t send it in raw, but I would attempt to cross it at a min grade you would accept.
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.3 -
@DelawareDoons said:
Cleaned to heck and net graded, I'd leave it be.I see no evidence of this coin being cleaned unless you consider dipping to be cleaned in which case there are many cleaned coins in straight graded PCGS slabs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire2 -
Typical "glassy" look, poorly struck, common for the issue. Compare with all the others of a similar grade in auction records with a similar look. I'd try cac and ask for their assessment.
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With that gouge next to the mintmark, the coin was lucky to straight grade anywhere.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
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I wish him the best in an attempt to get it pcgs graded, again we all are throwing out opinions based on photo alone. but just because folks have seen worse or more cleaned, or unnatural get holdered in past, dosnt mean this one will any more or less. Lots of stuff gets thru for various reasons, that may or may not again if tried.
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@logger7 said:
Typical "glassy" look, poorly struck, common for the issue. Compare with all the others of a similar grade in auction records with a similar look. I'd try cac and ask for their assessment.I wouldn’t, as I think it would be a failed attempt/waste of money. Earlier, you posted that you didn’t think the coin would cross, which seems somewhat inconsistent with a suggestion to try it CAC.
logger7 Posts: 9,852 ✭✭✭✭✭ September 20, 2026 6:19PM edited September 20, 2026 7:15PM
“No; a coin of that value has been tried already. Typical glassy cleaned look; compare with all the others around the same grade”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Not in 50.
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@MFeld said:
@logger7 said:
Typical "glassy" look, poorly struck, common for the issue. Compare with all the others of a similar grade in auction records with a similar look. I'd try cac and ask for their assessment.I wouldn’t, as I think it would be a failed attempt/waste of money. Earlier, you posted that you didn’t think the coin would cross, which seems somewhat inconsistent with a suggestion to try it CAC.
logger7 Posts: 9,852 ✭✭✭✭✭ September 20, 2026 6:19PM edited September 20, 2026 7:15PM
“No; a coin of that value has been tried already. Typical glassy cleaned look; compare with all the others around the same grade”.
The point of sending it to cac would be to get their objective assessment even if it fails; even if it has already been submitted.
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I think that sending the coin to CAC for an opinion (sticker and comments should it not) would not help the owner. He clearly wants the coin in PCGS even if it down crosses to a XF45. Short of that, it sounds like he will sell.
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Lets make believe it was submitted to pcg and graded, would the owner then be happy knowing the coin is obviously cleaned and pcg let it slide. The bottomline line is the coin was ruined no matter the holder or the sticker it is in.
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@CivilWarBuff said:
Lets make believe it was submitted to pcg and graded, would the owner then be happy knowing the coin is obviously cleaned and pcg let it slide. The bottomline line is the coin was ruined no matter the holder or the sticker it is in.Whatever issues the coin might have, many collectors would be happy to own it and most wouldn’t consider it to be “ruined”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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I have a suggestion for the owner of this coin. Send it back to NGC and request that they review the assigned grade under their grade guarantee. Be sure to tell NGC that numerous coin experts on the PCGS US Coin Forum have reviewed some pics of this coin and have determined that it's over graded, cleaned, and only worthy of a "details grade". Be sure to include a link to this thread. Let us know what they say.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire4 -
I would be in the No camp.
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@MFeld said:
@CivilWarBuff said:
Lets make believe it was submitted to pcg and graded, would the owner then be happy knowing the coin is obviously cleaned and pcg let it slide. The bottomline line is the coin was ruined no matter the holder or the sticker it is in.Whatever issues the coin might have, many collectors would be happy to own it and most wouldn’t consider it to be “ruined”.
I would own such a piece due to its rarity and not be bothered in the least. However I would be perfectly fine with how it resides in its current holder with or without a sticker. I admittedly used the word ruined to make a point since many here said it had been ruined via the obvious previous cleaning but that wouldn't deter me from owning it. The only difference is I would let it be and enjoy the stewardship until I decided to let it go.
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If I was looking to buy this coin, here's my thought process: It's a processed XF and I'm leaning towards PCGS declining to cross it due to calling it a details grade. However, I've been wrong before, and I wouldn't be surprised if PCGS crossed it at a grade and put it in a holder, should their graders find the coin market acceptable since it is a Dahlonega mint coin.
My personal take: No cross, the coin is cooked
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
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@PerryHall said:
I have a suggestion for the owner of this coin. Send it back to NGC and request that they review the assigned grade under their grade guarantee. Be sure to tell NGC that numerous coin experts on the PCGS US Coin Forum have reviewed some pics of this coin and have determined that it's over graded, cleaned, and only worthy of a "details grade". Be sure to include a link to this thread. Let us know what they say.I thought of the guarantee angle, but they are going to think you are speaking ironically if you send them a link to their competitor's coin forum. The only person whose opinion they might care about is Mark Feld's as he was a former grader of theirs.
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@PerryHall said:
@DelawareDoons said:
Cleaned to heck and net graded, I'd leave it be.I see no evidence of this coin being cleaned unless you consider dipping to be cleaned in which case there are many cleaned coins in straight graded PCGS slabs.
Overdipping is equivalent to a cleaning imho. Just because PCGS disagrees doesn't mean I'm wrong.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
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@cameonut2011 said:
@PerryHall said:
I have a suggestion for the owner of this coin. Send it back to NGC and request that they review the assigned grade under their grade guarantee. Be sure to tell NGC that numerous coin experts on the PCGS US Coin Forum have reviewed some pics of this coin and have determined that it's over graded, cleaned, and only worthy of a "details grade". Be sure to include a link to this thread. Let us know what they say.I thought of the guarantee angle, but they are going to think you are speaking ironically if you send them a link to their competitor's coin forum. The only person whose opinion they might care about is Mark Feld's as he was a former grader of theirs.
Thanks for the nice thought, but I’m confident that they wouldn’t care about my opinion, either. And after all this time, none of my former fellow graders are still there.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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