@logger7 said:
I'm looking forward to PCGS coinfacts updating their auction records with ebay, etc..
Ebay is the biggest vendor out there for used merchandise. I don't think the authenticity guarantee is all that great except for uneducated buyers. People have been able to send stuff back for a long time now. Most fakes are obvious.
You can include eBay sales on CoinFacts, just click the "show eBay" button.
Yeah, no recent updates. Sales are almost useless unless they are current.
I've got a couple of 1909-S Lincoln cents in Coin World Premier holders. The Coin World Premier holder can be glued shut. The only way for a TPG to do a bona fide authentication of said coin would require it's removal from the holder, right? Say I value one of my 1909-S pennies at $500 and I get a buyer on ebay who is willing to pay me that much for it in it's glued-closed (superglued) Coin World holder. The 1909-S LC piece, in it's glued-closed Coin World slab-type holder goes for authentication as a raw coin because we all know that's the way ebay sees it since the slab my 1909-S is in is not in one of their four recognized TPG slabs, right?
How is authentication supposed to work in the above described scenario? TPG can't do a bona fide authentication of the coin unless it's cracked out it's holder. Can't authenticate the slab because it's not one of the four slabs recognized by ebay.
What happens?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@logger7 said:
I'm looking forward to PCGS coinfacts updating their auction records with ebay, etc..
Ebay is the biggest vendor out there for used merchandise. I don't think the authenticity guarantee is all that great except for uneducated buyers. People have been able to send stuff back for a long time now. Most fakes are obvious.
You can include eBay sales on CoinFacts, just click the "show eBay" button.
Yeah, no recent updates. Sales are almost useless unless they are current.
Completely agree. Unfortunately that's been the norm. CoinFacts as a whole has been neglected for a while now.
They crack it out of they can't authenticate in the holder. Then, having solved that incredibly challenging problem, they start designing a Mars colony.
Cracking my Coin World holder is unsatisfactory to this seller and should be unsatisfactory to the buyer.
My item instantly has high potential to become a SNAD if the authenticating team cracks the holder that contains my coin. No way would I give them permission to do that.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@jmlanzaf
Did ebay try to get some opinions from coin sellers about this free authentication program when it was in the mulling stage? Or is that not ebay policy to ask sellers what they think about such a wolf-in- sheep's clothing that this authentication program appears to be?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@jmlanzaf said:
Buyer's should love it. Professional sellers will have no problem with it.
Posted previously...
eBay haters: "eBay sucks! They don't do anything about counterfeits!"
eBay: Enacts a policy to help eliminate counterfeits.
eBay haters: "eBay sucks! They're doing something about counterfeits!"
If you have a problem with it, don't use ebay. On behalf of all ebay users, we're fine with you going elsewhere.
Don't use ebay? Is that your advice? As a customer service representative for ebay, I give you a D minus grade. You don't get F because the enthusiasm you show for attempting to answer my questions is worth a little bit. Ignore me and you definitely would get an F grade.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@slider23 said:
Today, I went through the raw CC Trade Dollars listed with the eBay Authenticity Guarantee and did not see a single obvious fake CC Trade Dollar with the Authenticity Guarantee. The eBay seller's are already policing themselves and not listing the counterfeits. In the long run the buyers are going to pay for the program, but it appears that eBay has found an effective and cost efficient way to get counterfeit coins over $500 off their website.
This is the 1st I saw and hope to see through feedback what happened:
The question is who is eBay going to hire to d their authenticating. If they hire people who are competent, it’s going to a significant investment on their part. If they hire a PR team who don’t know what they are doing, it will be no improvement.
Coin authentication is not easy. It’s especially difficult when the piece is question has problems which makes it hard to make a decision. Another factor is the scope. An expert who is good with U.S. coins is not automatically able to authenticate foreign and ancient pieces. The same applies to tokens and medals.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Does a document of certification of authenticity go along with the free ebay authentication service? It seems that "getting it in writing" is important rather than just an undocumented nod of approval or a shake of the head for disapproval from the TPG authenticator.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@mr1931S said:
Does a document of certification of authenticity go along with the free ebay authentication service? It seems that "getting it in writing" is important rather than just an undocumented nod of approval or a shake of the head for disapproval from the TPG authenticator.
Good point. Perhaps the PCGS authenticators could add a small sticker to the slab verifying that they found it to be authentic.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Make your purchase
Eligible items will have the Authenticity Guarantee checkmark in the listing and will automatically go through the authentication process once purchased.
It's authenticated
The seller ships your coin to the authentication facility, where ungraded coins are inspected and graded coins have their case and label authenticated by an expert. No regrading is performed.
Shipped with care
Once authenticated, your item is shipped to you safely and discreetly, with signature confirmation required (where applicable).
Ungraded coins are inspected. Ungraded coins are not authenticated?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@jmlanzaf said:
Clearly, eBay should go back to just allowing fakes to be sold on their site. There is obviously no point in going through the time and expense of having a respected TPGS examine coins for authenticity. {end sarcasm}
We need a sarcasm emoji.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@mr1931S said:
Ungraded coins are inspected. Ungraded coins are not authenticated?
They don't slab them
You can authenticate a coin without slabbing it. I can see PCGS taking a very close look at any raw CC mint Morgan dollar or any raw Trade Dollar crossing their desk from eBay.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@mr1931S said:
Does a document of certification of authenticity go along with the free ebay authentication service? It seems that "getting it in writing" is important rather than just an undocumented nod of approval or a shake of the head for disapproval from the TPG authenticator.
Good point. Perhaps the PCGS authenticators could add a small sticker to the slab verifying that they found it to be authentic.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
@mr1931S said:
Ungraded coins are inspected. Ungraded coins are not authenticated?
They don't slab them
You can authenticate a coin without slabbing it. I can see PCGS taking a very close look at any raw CC mint Morgan dollar or any raw Trade Dollar crossing their desk from eBay.
Yes. But ithink that's why they are using "inspect" rather than "authenticate" in the description. It also includes some assessment of whether it matches the description
@mr1931S said:
Ungraded coins are inspected. Ungraded coins are not authenticated?
They don't slab them
You can authenticate a coin without slabbing it. I can see PCGS taking a very close look at any raw CC mint Morgan dollar or any raw Trade Dollar crossing their desk from eBay.
Yes. But ithink that's why they are using "inspect" rather than "authenticate" in the description. It also includes some assessment of whether it matches the description
It's just Harshly McHarschenstein picking nits.
Authenticate and inspect are two distinctly different words. The word "inspection" should not ever be casually substituted for the word "authentication." Inspection is merely the first step in an authentication process.
I'm asking tough questions. You can either answer the questions or not. Apparently, authentication doesn't happen for raw coins trading on ebay for $500 or more.
So, the inspection is going to result in some raw pieces getting a nod of approval and other raw pieces getting a shake of the head in disapproval. Presumably, the raw coin would not be removed from it's holder for the inspection unless the seller grants permission to the inspecting TPG to do that.
Is ebay making any provision for the seller to indicate deny or allow the inspecting TPG to remove the coin from it's holder to aid in it's inspection? What is ebay's position on this matter?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
Is the Coin World Premier holder that houses my 1909-S penny going to get the respect it deserves?
No cracking of it at the inspection station would I ever permit. The TPG and ebay need to understand that I have never and will never knowingly traffic in counterfeit/altered coins for financial gain. That's my guarantee. Receive my coin and you don't think it's real, intermediary TPG inspection findings notwithstanding, send the coin back to me in a timely way in it's untampered-with holder and I will refund your money in full minus 10%. You spend $500 for the piece, you deserve $500 of value. You get the coin AND MY guarantee of authenticity. ebay trading has gotten and is continuing to get more impersonal as time goes on.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
Comments
Yeah, no recent updates. Sales are almost useless unless they are current.
I've got a couple of 1909-S Lincoln cents in Coin World Premier holders. The Coin World Premier holder can be glued shut. The only way for a TPG to do a bona fide authentication of said coin would require it's removal from the holder, right? Say I value one of my 1909-S pennies at $500 and I get a buyer on ebay who is willing to pay me that much for it in it's glued-closed (superglued) Coin World holder. The 1909-S LC piece, in it's glued-closed Coin World slab-type holder goes for authentication as a raw coin because we all know that's the way ebay sees it since the slab my 1909-S is in is not in one of their four recognized TPG slabs, right?
How is authentication supposed to work in the above described scenario? TPG can't do a bona fide authentication of the coin unless it's cracked out it's holder. Can't authenticate the slab because it's not one of the four slabs recognized by ebay.
What happens?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
Completely agree. Unfortunately that's been the norm. CoinFacts as a whole has been neglected for a while now.
They crack it out of they can't authenticate in the holder. Then, having solved that incredibly challenging problem, they start designing a Mars colony.
Cracking my Coin World holder is unsatisfactory to this seller and should be unsatisfactory to the buyer.
My item instantly has high potential to become a SNAD if the authenticating team cracks the holder that contains my coin. No way would I give them permission to do that.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
@jmlanzaf
authentication program when it was in the mulling stage? Or is that not ebay policy to ask sellers what they think about such a wolf-in- sheep's clothing that this authentication program appears to be?
Did ebay try to get some opinions from coin sellers about this free
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
Posted previously...
eBay haters: "eBay sucks! They don't do anything about counterfeits!"
eBay: Enacts a policy to help eliminate counterfeits.
eBay haters: "eBay sucks! They're doing something about counterfeits!"
If you have a problem with it, don't use ebay. On behalf of all ebay users, we're fine with you going elsewhere.
Don't use ebay? Is that your advice? As a customer service representative for ebay, I give you a D minus grade. You don't get F because the enthusiasm you show for attempting to answer my questions is worth a little bit. Ignore me and you definitely would get an F grade.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
Are, and always will be. Regardless of what procedures they opt to employ, somebody will not be satisfied.
Yes, I did purchase it:
This is the 1st I saw and hope to see through feedback what happened:
So what happens when the authenticators issue a thumbs down on a $500 plus purchase?
https://www.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee/coins
I should know realtime...
I recently found a coin I wanted to buy on eBay. But then:
1.) it was trying to charge me sales tax, and my state does not charge sales tax on numismatics
2.) when I tried to message the seller, it said “this seller does not accept messages.”
This is for a 4-figure coin, so taxes were nontrivial. And u did not get a good feeling regarding not being allowed to even contact seller.
There's nothing a seller can do about sales taxes. Sellers have no control over how eBay collects (or not) them.
The question is who is eBay going to hire to d their authenticating. If they hire people who are competent, it’s going to a significant investment on their part. If they hire a PR team who don’t know what they are doing, it will be no improvement.
Coin authentication is not easy. It’s especially difficult when the piece is question has problems which makes it hard to make a decision. Another factor is the scope. An expert who is good with U.S. coins is not automatically able to authenticate foreign and ancient pieces. The same applies to tokens and medals.
Also the question is what kind of weight does the authentication hold and who becomes liable if they're wrong?
Does a document of certification of authenticity go along with the free ebay authentication service? It seems that "getting it in writing" is important rather than just an undocumented nod of approval or a shake of the head for disapproval from the TPG authenticator.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
Good point. Perhaps the PCGS authenticators could add a small sticker to the slab verifying that they found it to be authentic.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Easy as 1,2,3...
Make your purchase
Eligible items will have the Authenticity Guarantee checkmark in the listing and will automatically go through the authentication process once purchased.
It's authenticated
The seller ships your coin to the authentication facility, where ungraded coins are inspected and graded coins have their case and label authenticated by an expert. No regrading is performed.
Shipped with care
Once authenticated, your item is shipped to you safely and discreetly, with signature confirmation required (where applicable).
Ungraded coins are inspected. Ungraded coins are not authenticated?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
We need a sarcasm emoji.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If people did that, there would only be about six posts on this thread.
Ungraded coins are inspected. Ungraded coins are not authenticated?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
You can authenticate a coin without slabbing it. I can see PCGS taking a very close look at any raw CC mint Morgan dollar or any raw Trade Dollar crossing their desk from eBay.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Authenticate and inspect are two distinctly different words. The word "inspection" should not ever be casually substituted for the word "authentication." Inspection is merely the first step in an authentication process.
I'm asking tough questions. You can either answer the questions or not. Apparently, authentication doesn't happen for raw coins trading on ebay for $500 or more.
So, the inspection is going to result in some raw pieces getting a nod of approval and other raw pieces getting a shake of the head in disapproval. Presumably, the raw coin would not be removed from it's holder for the inspection unless the seller grants permission to the inspecting TPG to do that.
Is ebay making any provision for the seller to indicate deny or allow the inspecting TPG to remove the coin from it's holder to aid in it's inspection? What is ebay's position on this matter?
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
It's eBay's policy. Have you thought about contacting them with your concerns? You might.
Prediction:
There are going to be more questions about how it all works.
Is the Coin World Premier holder that houses my 1909-S penny going to get the respect it deserves?
No cracking of it at the inspection station would I ever permit. The TPG and ebay need to understand that I have never and will never knowingly traffic in counterfeit/altered coins for financial gain. That's my guarantee. Receive my coin and you don't think it's real, intermediary TPG inspection findings notwithstanding, send the coin back to me in a timely way in it's untampered-with holder and I will refund your money in full minus 10%. You spend $500 for the piece, you deserve $500 of value. You get the coin AND MY guarantee of authenticity. ebay trading has gotten and is continuing to get more impersonal as time goes on.
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
What did eBay say when you asked them?
Agree. For the non-cognoscenti, and I am one, it’s confusing.
To be honest, I didn't have "People upset over eBay attempting to eliminate counterfeits" on my bingo card.