is MBA beginning the move away from "eye appeal" stickers?
craig44
Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
if memory serves, MBA gold and silver stickers used to mean a card was in either the top 5% or 15% of that cards pop report for grade.
i recently noticed that the only "eye appeal" sticker being touted on the MBA website is the silver sticker with the tag line of top 15% of pop for grade.
the gold sticker is now being stated as a higher technical grade and NOT as a top 5% card. This higher technical grade is also not from the company the slab is from, but from MBA. I think that is worth emphasizing. per the MBA website, gold stickered cards are not touted as deserving of a higher grade from PSA/BGS/SGC etc, but from MBA only. so if you have an MBA gold stickered PSA 6, all that gold sticker now means is that Mike Baker thinks it is deserving of an MBA 7, NOT a PSA 7.
I think that most people that are into the sticker thing may not understand these newer distinctions. it would not surprise me at all if in the coming months, MBA silver stickers will no longer be considered "eye appeal" stickers either. I bet that there will be a quiet/subtle change to the descriptions on the MBA site regarding the silver stickers.
I think that Mike probably was getting a lot of questions/pushback about the impossibility of the percentages on "eye appeal" stickers and decided to make the change.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Comments
there was also an interesting video on youtube from the sports card clubhouse channel that showed a green portrait Cobb t206 that was graded PSA authentic that had the gold sticker (no longer eye appeal, but now better technical grade from MBA)
whoever reviewed that card completely missed as it could never grade an MBA 1 per MBA's own grading scale as it had both missing paper on front and back, but is also missing part of the top and bottom borders.
not sure what is going on over there, but it is not a good look.
check out the video. it is called "influenced about sports card collecting"
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
oh, and guys, lets keep the personal stuff out of this so we can discuss MBA
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I have one (1) MBA-Gold diamond in which no MBA grade is assigned. I believe I purchased that card in late 2024 or early 2025. Since that time, MBA has evolved into assigning an MBA grade up to as much as +2 MBA grades higher for an MBA Gold diamond. Most times, the bump is 1/2 MBA grade point higher.
The Silver diamond is for a card in which it presents exceptionally for the PSA/SGC/BGS assigned grade.
A new diamond, Bronze diamond, is a recent addition. I interpret the Bronze diamond to mean that the card is solid for the assigned grade, not a slider.
I think MBA is evolving…and that further modifications in the meaning of a diamond could occur. For example, Gold diamond would be a 1-2 MBA grade higher than the assigned grade by PSA/SGC/BGS; Silver diamond would mean a 1/2 point MBA grade higher. And a Bronze diamond would mean no MBA grade higher…but it is a very solid card for the PSA/SGC/BGS assigned grade.
It's tough to keep "personal" out of a personal obsession. You will continue to hack away at this until the tree falls down. Never give up.
When you start and respond twice to your own thread because nobody else chimes in…
i made two "responses" because most people hate the wall of text posts, and I find that most people will not read through them. if it is broken up into a few shorter posts, better chance more folks will check it out. that is all.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I agree, MBA seems to be evolving.
anecdotally, from speaking to dealers/collectors at card shows, there seems to be confusion/misconceptions as to exactly what the stickers actually represent. I suspect those misconceptions are pretty widespread.
nearly everyone i have spoken to believe all the stickers to be eye appeal stickers. but according to MBA, that is no longer the case. the bronze and gold are simply a judgement by mike baker as to how a slabbed card would grade in one of his holders.
the new bronze sticker? it simply means that the slab would convert equallly to an MBA slab of the same grade. why would anyone want a bronze sticker on a PSA slab? I dont think anyone on earth would prefer an MBA 8 over a PSA 8. anyone who got a bronze sticker would be foolish not to peel it off immediately. zero advantage to it.
the gold sticker no longer is an eye appeal sticker. per the MBA website, "A Diamond Certified trading card must achieve a 0.5 technical grade increase, or higher, to receive the Gold Diamond designation."
it is possible the card could grade more than 0.5 grade higher, but that is all that is guaranteed. And that simply means a crossover to an MBA slab of 0.5 higher. again, i dont see much value there. i am sure the VAST majority would prefer a PSA 7 over an MBA 7.5 or 8
the silver sticker is currently the only "eye appeal" sticker left. i suspect that wording will change by the first of the year. I am confident they changed the verbage on the gold sticker because they probably got pushback about the top 5% description and realized there was zero chance they could actually produce any evidence that number was anywhere near accurate.
these are all very common misconceptions in my experience.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
👍 all good and thank you for the explanation.
Brent is probably cooking up the next list of variations for stickers as we speak. Wasn't that how PWCC operated?
I think your assessment is spot on. Before the bronze sticker came out the silver sticker was required to have superior eye appeal for the grade almost like the old PWCC-E grade which was top 15%. The perception was the gold sticker originally was seen as a much higher grade, and after about six months, they started assigning what the equivalent grade would be for a card.
Lately they have started assigning the numerical grade on the back card insert, so for example, a card that is a PSA 6 would have a card on the back in a gold showing. It was a 6.5 or 7. What is curious to me? Is that collectors rather than saying this card is now worth a 6.5 assign a much higher value to card where you see some going for 50% plus what VCP shows. Don’t quite understand it, but if I have a card that has a gold sticker and somebody wants to give me 50 to 100% of comps more power to them.
This is a fun discussion — and I do have an observation. I think?
If this were to really take off — and I mean REALLY take off — it could be the biggest thing to happen to graded cards since the advent of the PSA Set Registry.
And one last thought...
“Buy the card, not the holder” worked fine — until somebody figured out how to put another grade on the holder. 😎
I don’t have a horse in this race, but you do, and it should be noted your horse, MBA, is backed by Brent Huigens. And maybe that doesn’t matter but let’s be clear that you and Monty are pumping MBA and as such are associated with these turds.
Hello — just my 2¢ since - I know both Monte and Keith.
I think “pumping” is a little strong. They use MBA, own stickered cards and have been pretty open about liking the service and discussing their experiences.
Unless I've missed something, I've seen no evidence that either has any ownership or other proprietary interest in MBA. Being an enthusiastic customer doesn't automatically make someone a promoter/pumper for the company.
And associating them personally with whoever may be behind MBA seems a bit unfair to me.
Just my take.
Hey Mike, that’s fair, but the facts are Brent is an owner in MBA.
Take from that what you will
>
Changing the definitions of the diamonds would be a disaster.
All the old eye appeal only Silvers will now be +.5?
And all the old Top 5% Golds, now +.5, will again get a bump to +1-2 grades?
Pick a standard and stick with it.
And if people are wondering, yes MBA will sticker their own slabs.
Only with eye appeal Silvers that I've ever seen.
Since MBA has half grades, putting on a Gold sticker wouldn't really make sense.
And no one in these posts seem to talk about the other diamond sticker, The Black Diamond.
Flawless above Pristine. Higher than Beckett Black, I think they're saying.
Less than 1% of all 10s and higher get MBA Black Diamond.
yes, it will be a disaster. remember when Beckett attempted to roll out a new grading scale a few years ago? that only lasted a couple of days if memory serves.
MBA has already changed definitions according to their website. I think they did it "on the sly" as i did not see or hear of any press release or news flash announcing the changes. this will be very confusing to the hobby and MBA stickered card owners. there will be LOTS of misinformation and misconceptions flying around.
To my understanding, only one current MBA sticker is now an "eye appeal" sticker. that being the silver. that one is "top" 15% of the pop for the card. all other stickers guarantee either same grade equivalent MBA slab or 0.5+ or higher MBA slab.
and you are correct, noone has mentiond the Black diamond. it is not an eye appeal sticker anymore, it just guarantees that any slab with that sticker can be crossed over to an MBA "flawless" slab.
this "slippery slope" to definitions will not go over well in the community. everyone i have spoken to still believes all the stickers to still be representing "eye appeal" and that is no longer the case.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I will have to disagree. I don’t and have not “pumped” MBA and have zero affiliation with them. First time I met them was last year at the National when I dropped of some cards to have them reviewed as a customer.
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I can tell you that a few years ago at the National when I saw the stickers I thought it was not something I agreed with and did not have any interest. After speaking last year with several high end dealers I buy and sell with as well as several of the larger AH’s they all had positive things to say about them so I subbed some cards - had some good results and also some not so good results.
The one thing I did see as a positive is they had people at their booth who would answer questions, and when I had a question about a card Mike Baker himself came over and looked and reviewed it with me to tell me why it did or did not get the sticker I though it should get. IMO that kind of service and attention should be called out in a positive light. The heat map, the willingness to interact with customers, and their prompt attention to issues no matter what you think about some of their “people” (ahem PWCC) cannot be discredited. Now Brent being associated with them, which I did not know at the time I had subbed cards, is another matter as well.
All I can tell you is that I was taught growing up by my dad to judge people by your interactions with them and not what others say about them. To date I cannot say anything negative about my dealings with MBA since they have treated me professionally and the service has been excellent - so until that changes trying to convince me to trash them is not something that will happen. Hopefully this should address your concerns.👍
@KendallCat
I have a question about one part of your post:
"Now Brent being associated with them, which I did not know at the time I had subbed cards, is another matter as well."
now that you know that Brent is not only associated with Mike, but is in management and possibly has an ownership stake, does that change your opinion/assessment about continuing to use MBA services or buy/sell their slabs/stickers?
I agree that we can, and should, judge people by our personal interactions. but that is not where it should end.
I know i have never personally met or done business with people such as: Bernie Madoff, Kenneth Lay, Bernie Ebbers, Sam Bankman-Fried etc. but I know not to do business with them or tout their businesses.
I think we would all agree that Brent Huigens is a bad actor, and a terrible person to have involved in our hobby.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Judging someone only on personal interactions is foolish. It's merely a single data point.
The best confidence people all seem like "great guys" , if they did not their grifts would seldom work
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Even PSA has changed their grading standards…even though the definitions have not changed. The grading results tell otherwise. And PSA is thriving…based on backlogs.
And PSA also gives number grades to altered cards at a high enough rate that I run into about 20 a year. Imagine how many millions of altered cards PSA has allowed into the population through sheer ignorance and carelessness. That helps to put MBAs small time hustle into perspective.
One faction is greedily doing it, the other is too lazy (Sloth) to check.
Greed and Sloth are both deadly sins.
or
One faction is doing it premeditated (criminal) the other is pure incompetence (civil)
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Grading companies are not perfect…and unfortunately some cards do slip through the cracks. In the 1980s, buying raw grades was a minefield…and I left the hobby after being a victim of altered cards. I only came back to the hobby when companies like PSA, Beckett and SGC/SBC opened for business. It is a better hobby today than before grading existed.
I think it's a better business than it was when it was a hobby but those are different things.
How can they put a Black sticker on there and be certain they can up increase the grade without examining the card without the holder? I would think you could only guarantee it if you were to see it out of the holder. Getting measurements, light angles, etc.
What Monte said. The consternation over MBA is so laughable when compared to 30+ years of fumbles and failures at PSA.
I'm fairly certain that the main goal for MBA is its hope and desire to be bought out by CU.
Don't waste your money CU.
I looked at MBA as filling the gap between the technical assessment that the grading companies try to provide and the more general "how good does the card look" that we call eye-appeal. I think we all agree that where there's an opportunity to take advantage of people you will find people getting taken advantage of. I'm happy to beat that drum about once a year just so that new people into the "hobby" know There be Dragons...
To pretend that there's no value in the service they are providing seems to ignore the reality that many of us are observing. I think the way to argue against that in particular is to start showing off the cards which have MBA stickers that don't look #goodforthegrade. I'm not saying to ignore the fact that it's all subjective or there are bad actors involved or that there is evidence of trimmed / altered cards in MBA slabs... just the stickers and the results.
Honest question (I have no dog in this race) but how can another company claim a reviewed card is in the top 5% (or any) without seeing scans of every card of that grade? I don’t understand how even PSA can claim that since so many were graded before they were scanning.
I would approach it with the general subjectivity it's most likely intended with. You could do it though without reviewing every example - statistical sampling. I don't think this is that... this seems like more of a vibe thing. Like Larry David drawing out a groan.
I don't think that was ever the case. "Eye appeal" was not mentioned in their older definition of gold, although it could have been mentioned as part of describing what a "truly exceptional example" means.
"These are truly exceptional examples within the assigned technical grade, generally representing the top 5% of the population, for that grade"
Their new definition removed the top 5% part and replaced it with increase in technical grade of at least +.5:
"These are truly exceptional examples within the assigned technical grade. A Diamond Certified trading card must achieve a 0.5 technical grade increase, or higher, to receive the Gold Diamond designation."
The biggest change to Gold is that it went from being really high within the grade of whatever 3rd party slab, to a .5 grade bump in an MBA slab.
This is because MBA started grading and encapsulating cards themselves and can now crossover.
If I'm engaging with that '66T Mantle, I'm pulling my sightline away from the label and the sticker and the 3rd party opinion, and simply admitting that it's a monster of a beautiful card. I want to see it naked.
MBA is looking to become more than just stickers it seems, as they are grading now and expanding to include grading and encapsulating packs, thicker cards, flats up to 8"x10", and more.
Time will tell if they become a serious player and whether or not the masses except them.
I was unaware of encapsulating packs…
With the current state of grading I imagine they won’t be the last ones to start doing this. Seems like they have enough name recognition to get a great head start.
Anyone looking for a Green Cobb MBA Gold that's missing two corners? There's currently one up for auction at Heritage
So how long before they just put a sticker on everything? Or could I buy a sheet and apply them myself?
they cant. the only way to truly appraise the condition of a card is to remove it from its slab/holder.
it is all part of the grift
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
they cant. and that is exactly why they seem to be moving away from professing top 5%. all they have left for "eye appeal" is the silver sticker. i imagine that will not be an eye appeal sticker for too much longer.
it is impossible. and they know it.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
OK. that one seems like a miss.
LMFAO ROTLF
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Customer paid for a sticker and they got a sticker. I believe that's called a successful transaction> @NachoNeil said:
Customer paid for a sticker and they got a sticker. I believe that's called a successful transaction
P.S. No way someone submits that to MBA unless they are guaranteed a sticker, proll due to either throwing them more business or the promise thereof -- or it simply belongs to Mike, Brent, or one of their buddies of another employee
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Crossover to MBA 1 Fair
The new saying is going to be "Buy the card and not the sticker".
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@mintonlypls
Monte,
The last thread was closed.
I apologize.
All the best,
Tim
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Seriously. Lame. Just cringe lame lameness. So lame and weak.
Ok but not as lame as a boomer/boomer adjacent using current slang like "cringe". Thats so mid man so very mid
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I can pull off socks with sandals too.
Tim,
Apology accepted! Please accept my apology as well for my contribution to the closure.
All Good - Monte