I ordered a few, thought they would sell more than they did so far. I would imagine that many don't even know about this medal since they just popped it up on the Mint website this week. I believe the demand is there, but the awareness of the product may not be yet.
@mbr33 said:
It may take awhile to sell 15,000 of these. 12,473 ATS after 10 minutes. Was an initial rush but now the numbers not dropping very quickly.
They may not need to sell through 15,000, only as many as pre order through September 4.
Good way to look at it. Wonder what would happen if the Mint used this method in the future for most (or all) of their future products?
It would be interesting if they adopt this "mint-to-order" model. Get a 2-week ordering window, and then print to order.... After I already purchased a few, I'm now hoping they only sell about half (or less) of the available 15K -- that would make them even better (in terms of scarcity). Although they are just medals -- but look at those 2014 FS Medals that went nuts after they were suddenly marked as Unavailable. I think they even still carry a premium due to lower mintage than prior year FS Bronze Medal Sets.
Forgot about those 2014’s. This may end up being interesting after all.
As for the mintage idea, that could be something to experiment with. Collectors would have two weeks to decide if 15,000 (for example) of the 2027 Buffalo Gold Oz was worth spending $5500 on and decide. If only 4,000 of them sold based on collector interest, then you’d have a rather rare coin (mintage-wise). The possibilities are numerous. Some might like the idea….some would hate it.
The Mint did try this “mint to demand” method back in 2012 with the Eagle set. It had mixed results. Everyone who wanted a set was able to get one but the mintage ended up being high so there was no increase on the secondary market (which people didn’t like).
That's what I meant by the two camps of thinking. A pure "collector-only" would like it, as he would be able to get what he wants almost all the time. Secondary folks wouldn't like it because it would be difficult to predict winners and losers until all orders were in. If the Mint stuck to a "we are willing to mint up to THIS number and NOT beyond" it would have some interesting winners and losers, based on your own perspective.
I do see how certain items would disappoint based on that article you shared. Thanks, btw!
A lot of collectors won't like it because they'll see an immediate drop in value below the initial sales price.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@mbr33 said:
It may take awhile to sell 15,000 of these. 12,473 ATS after 10 minutes. Was an initial rush but now the numbers not dropping very quickly.
They may not need to sell through 15,000, only as many as pre order through September 4.
Good way to look at it. Wonder what would happen if the Mint used this method in the future for most (or all) of their future products?
It would be interesting if they adopt this "mint-to-order" model. Get a 2-week ordering window, and then print to order.... After I already purchased a few, I'm now hoping they only sell about half (or less) of the available 15K -- that would make them even better (in terms of scarcity). Although they are just medals -- but look at those 2014 FS Medals that went nuts after they were suddenly marked as Unavailable. I think they even still carry a premium due to lower mintage than prior year FS Bronze Medal Sets.
Forgot about those 2014’s. This may end up being interesting after all.
As for the mintage idea, that could be something to experiment with. Collectors would have two weeks to decide if 15,000 (for example) of the 2027 Buffalo Gold Oz was worth spending $5500 on and decide. If only 4,000 of them sold based on collector interest, then you’d have a rather rare coin (mintage-wise). The possibilities are numerous. Some might like the idea….some would hate it.
The Mint did try this “mint to demand” method back in 2012 with the Eagle set. It had mixed results. Everyone who wanted a set was able to get one but the mintage ended up being high so there was no increase on the secondary market (which people didn’t like).
That's what I meant by the two camps of thinking. A pure "collector-only" would like it, as he would be able to get what he wants almost all the time. Secondary folks wouldn't like it because it would be difficult to predict winners and losers until all orders were in. If the Mint stuck to a "we are willing to mint up to THIS number and NOT beyond" it would have some interesting winners and losers, based on your own perspective.
I do see how certain items would disappoint based on that article you shared. Thanks, btw!
A lot of collectors won't like it because they'll see an immediate drop in value below the initial sales price.
Then we have the differing types of collectors, as well. There's a subset (smaller, granted) who just like to collect coins and medals that the Mint puts out who won't care about that. They just want "stuff." I'll bet you've sold your fair share of coinage to this type as well. They get mad and post all kinds of vitriol on social media about not being able to figure out the Mint website, or getting beat by bots, or not knowing the thing was coming out today, or "I forgot".....
But you're 100% correct that there will be an immediate drop in value on most products. Some may surprise, and maybe the Mint commits to 15,000 of something, yet there are 50,000 people who wanted it. Any number of things could happen with a system like that. Will be interesting to see what happens if this only sells 5,000. Right now they are at 3,777 in sales after 4 1/2 hours.
Not a fan. I'm not buying.
Once the one day of FOMO is over, you'll be able to buy this cheaper than the selling price from the mint.
But glad to see it's add to bag for everyone else. Great for race fans. Now, maybe if it was "Fast and Furious" with Vin Diesel on the back!
@mbr33 said:
It may take awhile to sell 15,000 of these. 12,473 ATS after 10 minutes. Was an initial rush but now the numbers not dropping very quickly.
They may not need to sell through 15,000, only as many as pre order through September 4.
Good way to look at it. Wonder what would happen if the Mint used this method in the future for most (or all) of their future products?
It would be interesting if they adopt this "mint-to-order" model. Get a 2-week ordering window, and then print to order.... After I already purchased a few, I'm now hoping they only sell about half (or less) of the available 15K -- that would make them even better (in terms of scarcity). Although they are just medals -- but look at those 2014 FS Medals that went nuts after they were suddenly marked as Unavailable. I think they even still carry a premium due to lower mintage than prior year FS Bronze Medal Sets.
Forgot about those 2014’s. This may end up being interesting after all.
As for the mintage idea, that could be something to experiment with. Collectors would have two weeks to decide if 15,000 (for example) of the 2027 Buffalo Gold Oz was worth spending $5500 on and decide. If only 4,000 of them sold based on collector interest, then you’d have a rather rare coin (mintage-wise). The possibilities are numerous. Some might like the idea….some would hate it.
The Mint did try this “mint to demand” method back in 2012 with the Eagle set. It had mixed results. Everyone who wanted a set was able to get one but the mintage ended up being high so there was no increase on the secondary market (which people didn’t like).
They also Minted to Demand the 2024 Liberty & Britannia Coins and Medals. A 30 day ordering window netted a little over 5000 Gold coins for collectors and patient flippers.
$3020 was the issue price (a $900 premium over spot) at the time. The spot run-up ensued, and to this day, they still command a nice premium. There's not a whole lot of them out there...
.
@Rc5280 said:
They also Minted to Demand the 2024 Liberty & Britannia Coins and Medals. A 30 day ordering window netted a little over 5000 Gold coins for collectors and patient flippers.
$3020 was the issue price (a $900 premium over spot) at the time. The spot run-up ensued, and to this day, they still command a nice premium. There's not a whole lot of them out there...
.
@1776Coins said:
Not a fan. I'm not buying.
Once the one day of FOMO is over, you'll be able to buy this cheaper than the selling price from the mint.
But glad to see it's add to bag for everyone else. Great for race fans. Now, maybe if it was "Fast and Furious" with Vin Diesel on the back!
It is pre order for two weeks, so if anyone is second guessing after a day of FOMO wears off, they have plenty of time to cancel and not try to sell it for less.
Does anyone know if they sold or promoted these at the race yesterday? Would someone please update on the ATS number, I don't know how to check it. Thanks.
@Survivor50 said:
Does anyone know if they sold or promoted these at the race yesterday? Would someone please update on the ATS number, I don't know how to check it. Thanks.
@Survivor50 said:
Does anyone know if they sold or promoted these at the race yesterday? Would someone please update on the ATS number, I don't know how to check it. Thanks.
I took a peek at the ATS number at 7:30 and it was 9787 and is now 9731
@Survivor50 said:
Does anyone know if they sold or promoted these at the race yesterday? Would someone please update on the ATS number, I don't know how to check it. Thanks.
I'm guessing these were NOT advertised or promoted during the race based on the sales numbers not even moving by 1000 yesterday. I saw no mention on the TV broadcast.
@1776Coins said:
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
@1776Coins said:
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
I doubt many flippers were involved. This was obviously not going to be popular.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@1776Coins said:
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
I doubt many flippers were involved. This was obviously not going to be popular.
I was pointing out that the cancellation time frame is a large one, so nobody would be stuck with them that didn’t truly want them. A flip it is not.
I imagine Penske Corporation will try to finagle first dibs at buying up the remainders (15,000 minus the quantity sold at midnight of the close of the ordering window). They'd be foolish not to, when the entire mintage has a retail value of just $900,000. Jonathan Gibson, Penske Corporation’s Executive Vice President of Marketing and Business Development, spoke on behalf of Roger Penske at an August 6 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee when the proposed designs were made public. Mr. Gibson leads all marketing, brand, and business development initiatives for Penske Corporation. He oversees corporate communications processes and messaging across the entire company and its subsidiaries. This medal is like a nineteenth-century merchant token, but with the benefit of being an official product of the United States Mint with the full imprimatur of the federal government. Where else can you buy that kind of advertising for sixty bucks a pop?
It’s unclear what the 89-year-old Roger Penske was promised or led to believe about this national medal. But a remark from Mr. Gibson to the CCAC is suggestive: “It’s my privilege to be here and speak on behalf of Roger Penske this afternoon as we consider him for this distinguished special ceremonial medal from the United States Mint.” And further: “He is very humbled and very proud to be considered for this humbling opportunity. We are very proud as you consider recognizing someone whose life work reflects the very best of the American spirit. Thank you again for this amazing opportunity.”
@1776Coins said:
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
I doubt many flippers were involved. This was obviously not going to be popular.
I guess I'll have to get one, then.
The Bicentennial had the Tall Ships, and the 250th has the IndyCar race through DC.
Just you wait. 50 or 100 years from now these might potentially be in demand, possibly.
@1776Coins said:
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
I doubt many flippers were involved. This was obviously not going to be popular.
I guess I'll have to get one, then.
The Bicentennial had the Tall Ships, and the 250th has the IndyCar race through DC.
Just you wait. 50 or 100 years from now these might potentially be in demand, possibly.
LOL. Have you recently sold the Tall Ship medals? 50 years isn't long enough.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@illini420 said:
I ordered a few, thought they would sell more than they did so far. I would imagine that many don't even know about this medal since they just popped it up on the Mint website this week. I believe the demand is there, but the awareness of the product may not be yet.
I hear what you are saying. And normally would agree. But I believe with the huge interest in Mint products this year, there is no shortage of knowledge by those who collect modern coins. In this case, the market has spoken.
@1776Coins said:
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
I doubt many flippers were involved. This was obviously not going to be popular.
I guess I'll have to get one, then.
The Bicentennial had the Tall Ships, and the 250th has the IndyCar race through DC.
Just you wait. 50 or 100 years from now these might potentially be in demand, possibly.
LOL. Have you recently sold the Tall Ship medals? 50 years isn't long enough.
It was actually a great event to watch. The 90 minute pre-race special was worth every moment and the race itself had a lot of drama ultimately resulting with an American racer, Kirkwood, winning.
That said, will I buy the Freedom 250 medal, prolly not.
@Dentuck said:
I imagine Penske Corporation will try to finagle first dibs at buying up the remainders (15,000 minus the quantity sold at midnight of the close of the ordering window). They'd be foolish not to, when the entire mintage has a retail value of just $900,000. Jonathan Gibson, Penske Corporation’s Executive Vice President of Marketing and Business Development, spoke on behalf of Roger Penske at an August 6 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee when the proposed designs were made public. Mr. Gibson leads all marketing, brand, and business development initiatives for Penske Corporation. He oversees corporate communications processes and messaging across the entire company and its subsidiaries. This medal is like a nineteenth-century merchant token, but with the benefit of being an official product of the United States Mint with the full imprimatur of the federal government. Where else can you buy that kind of advertising for sixty bucks a pop?
It’s unclear what the 89-year-old Roger Penske was promised or led to believe about this national medal. But a remark from Mr. Gibson to the CCAC is suggestive: “It’s my privilege to be here and speak on behalf of Roger Penske this afternoon as we consider him for this distinguished special ceremonial medal from the United States Mint.” And further: “He is very humbled and very proud to be considered for this humbling opportunity. We are very proud as you consider recognizing someone whose life work reflects the very best of the American spirit. Thank you again for this amazing opportunity.”
An amazing opportunity, indeed.
According to the Mint, the medal will be produced to demand. . .there won't be any remainders. I'm guessing if the Penske Corporation wants a large quantity for advertising and promotion purposes, they will be able to strike some sort of deal with the USM. Current ATS = 7,408 with a week to go. Expected in-stock date is 9/28.
Comments
I ordered a few, thought they would sell more than they did so far. I would imagine that many don't even know about this medal since they just popped it up on the Mint website this week. I believe the demand is there, but the awareness of the product may not be yet.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
Ordered one. Christmas present for my son, who is an Indy car racing fan.
A lot of collectors won't like it because they'll see an immediate drop in value below the initial sales price.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Then we have the differing types of collectors, as well. There's a subset (smaller, granted) who just like to collect coins and medals that the Mint puts out who won't care about that. They just want "stuff." I'll bet you've sold your fair share of coinage to this type as well. They get mad and post all kinds of vitriol on social media about not being able to figure out the Mint website, or getting beat by bots, or not knowing the thing was coming out today, or "I forgot".....
But you're 100% correct that there will be an immediate drop in value on most products. Some may surprise, and maybe the Mint commits to 15,000 of something, yet there are 50,000 people who wanted it. Any number of things could happen with a system like that. Will be interesting to see what happens if this only sells 5,000. Right now they are at 3,777 in sales after 4 1/2 hours.
Not a fan. I'm not buying.
Once the one day of FOMO is over, you'll be able to buy this cheaper than the selling price from the mint.
But glad to see it's add to bag for everyone else. Great for race fans. Now, maybe if it was "Fast and Furious" with Vin Diesel on the back!
They also Minted to Demand the 2024 Liberty & Britannia Coins and Medals. A 30 day ordering window netted a little over 5000 Gold coins for collectors and patient flippers.
$3020 was the issue price (a $900 premium over spot) at the time. The spot run-up ensued, and to this day, they still command a nice premium. There's not a whole lot of them out there...
.
.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
those are the coins
how are the medals doing?
It is pre order for two weeks, so if anyone is second guessing after a day of FOMO wears off, they have plenty of time to cancel and not try to sell it for less.
Does anyone know if they sold or promoted these at the race yesterday? Would someone please update on the ATS number, I don't know how to check it. Thanks.
Current ATS = 9,731
I took a peek at the ATS number at 7:30 and it was 9787 and is now 9731
Current ATS: 9,682
Adj. Net Demand
5,105 Through 8/23.
Thanks! for the update. @mbr33 and @cptbilly also.
Still available? Gotta hurt the flippers. This isn't an investment, this is a donation to the Mint.
I'm guessing these were NOT advertised or promoted during the race based on the sales numbers not even moving by 1000 yesterday. I saw no mention on the TV broadcast.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
2/3 still available. Won’t hurt the flippers at all. Theyll cancel and move on….dropping the mintage further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the ATS rise tomorrow at 7:30.
I doubt many flippers were involved. This was obviously not going to be popular.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I was pointing out that the cancellation time frame is a large one, so nobody would be stuck with them that didn’t truly want them. A flip it is not.
I imagine Penske Corporation will try to finagle first dibs at buying up the remainders (15,000 minus the quantity sold at midnight of the close of the ordering window). They'd be foolish not to, when the entire mintage has a retail value of just $900,000. Jonathan Gibson, Penske Corporation’s Executive Vice President of Marketing and Business Development, spoke on behalf of Roger Penske at an August 6 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee when the proposed designs were made public. Mr. Gibson leads all marketing, brand, and business development initiatives for Penske Corporation. He oversees corporate communications processes and messaging across the entire company and its subsidiaries. This medal is like a nineteenth-century merchant token, but with the benefit of being an official product of the United States Mint with the full imprimatur of the federal government. Where else can you buy that kind of advertising for sixty bucks a pop?
It’s unclear what the 89-year-old Roger Penske was promised or led to believe about this national medal. But a remark from Mr. Gibson to the CCAC is suggestive: “It’s my privilege to be here and speak on behalf of Roger Penske this afternoon as we consider him for this distinguished special ceremonial medal from the United States Mint.” And further: “He is very humbled and very proud to be considered for this humbling opportunity. We are very proud as you consider recognizing someone whose life work reflects the very best of the American spirit. Thank you again for this amazing opportunity.”
An amazing opportunity, indeed.
I guess I'll have to get one, then.
The Bicentennial had the Tall Ships, and the 250th has the IndyCar race through DC.
Just you wait. 50 or 100 years from now these might potentially be in demand, possibly.
LOL. Have you recently sold the Tall Ship medals? 50 years isn't long enough.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Not interested in this one !
?
¿ ʇno ʇᴉ ǝɹnƃᴉɟ uɐɔ noʎ ˙˙˙˙ɥɐǝ⅄
I hear what you are saying. And normally would agree. But I believe with the huge interest in Mint products this year, there is no shortage of knowledge by those who collect modern coins. In this case, the market has spoken.
Put a piece of your favorite tape on it; you'll see it in a whole new light.
,
It was actually a great event to watch. The 90 minute pre-race special was worth every moment and the race itself had a lot of drama ultimately resulting with an American racer, Kirkwood, winning.
That said, will I buy the Freedom 250 medal, prolly not.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
According to the Mint, the medal will be produced to demand. . .there won't be any remainders. I'm guessing if the Penske Corporation wants a large quantity for advertising and promotion purposes, they will be able to strike some sort of deal with the USM. Current ATS = 7,408 with a week to go. Expected in-stock date is 9/28.