Even if it comes back as counterfeit, which seems likely, a circulating counterfeit die struck modern dollar is pretty interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to add one to my collection.
@TrickleCharge said:
Even if it comes back as counterfeit, which seems likely, a circulating counterfeit die struck modern dollar is pretty interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to add one to my collection.
@TrickleCharge said:
Even if it comes back as counterfeit, which seems likely, a circulating counterfeit die struck modern dollar is pretty interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to add one to my collection.
Hi TrickleCharge, to be completely honest, I had no idea about the advanced level and reach that counterfeiters have achieved in recent years; I was not aware of it at all. My only knowledge was about crude cast counterfeits made with molds, and I actually own one of those fake Sacagawea dollars myself.
If this Lincoln dollar turns out to be a counterfeit, the level of detail is honestly supreme. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, the depth and the look in Lincoln's eyes are perfect. Either the die was crafted with extreme precision, or this coin was one of the very first ones struck before that fake die began to wear down.
If you are truly interested in adding it to your collection after the ANACS verdict drops next week, feel free to send me a private message about it. Thank you for the link and the great conversation!
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
don' expect a response from anacs that differs from ngc or pcgs. you'll get a grade or no grade and that's about it. i'm surprised someone at ngc was willing to discuss why something body bagged. they can't do this for everyone
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
don' expect a response from anacs that differs from ngc or pcgs. you'll get a grade or no grade and that's about it. i'm surprised someone at ngc was willing to discuss why something body bagged. they can't do this for everyone
Hi MsMorrisine, the beauty of living in this era is that we have the internet, where all of this numismatic history is already written and documented. And now, combined with the power of AI tools, a single precise keyword can pull up detailed breakdowns of everything that has happened in the past.
To back up my stance, here are two famous, documented cases in US numismatic history where there was a major clash of opinions or technical errors between the top grading services:
The 1796 Draped Bust Dime: PCGS initially refused to grade this piece, returning it unholdered as "altered/damaged." The owner then resubmitted the exact same coin to NGC, where their technicians certified it as a completely genuine, natural specimen, grading it XF-40 and validating an $11,000 piece.
The 1806 C-1 Half Cents (no stemmed reverse variety): Both major grading services authenticated and slabbed a deceptive group of these coins as genuine for a long time. Years later, through advanced microscopic analysis, experts discovered a tiny transfer die defect—a microscopic "plug" inside the letter 'A' of HALF—proving that highly sophisticated transfer dies had completely fooled the multi-million dollar grading rooms into certifying counterfeits.
Labs are run by humans, and discrepancies happen all the time. That is why seeking a scientific tiebreaker with ANACS makes perfect sense!
Another option is ICG, much faster on their 5 day tier and they've hired PCGS and NGC graders in the last couple years. $25 for that tier and around $10 bucks for an attribution.
Considering that the current submission is with a different major grading company than the first one, under what circumstances would you recommend his trying a third one? I don’t see the use in that.
Hi @MFeld, thank you for your input! From a strictly technical and analytical standpoint, you are completely right; it wouldn't make much sense to continue chasing opinions across a third grading company.
The main reason I sought a second opinion with ANACS was the deep frustration of receiving NGC's vague verdict. For those of you who work in this market daily, it's tough when a corporate company leaves a paying customer completely in the limbo instead of giving a clear, definitive answer—whether good or bad. I feel ANACS should have been my first choice from the very beginning.
That being used said, I know @logger7 gave his advice in absolute good faith as a helpful suggestion for the future, and I truly appreciate his kindness. But on my end, whatever ANACS officially determines next week will either be the definitive end of this story or a fascinating "to be continued." I really appreciate your common sense!
I don’t blame you for wanting a second opinion after having received NGC’s vague verdict.
That said, while I haven’t looked at very many modern coins of this type, based on its appearance, my guess is that it’s counterfeit. You’ve focused meticulously on numerous minute details that I’m not familiar with. I, on the other hand, have been looking at the coin as a whole - the big picture. And it doesn’t look right to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Another option is ICG, much faster on their 5 day tier and they've hired PCGS and NGC graders in the last couple years. $25 for that tier and around $10 bucks for an attribution.
Considering that the current submission is with a different major grading company than the first one, under what circumstances would you recommend his trying a third one? I don’t see the use in that.
Hi @MFeld, thank you for your input! From a strictly technical and analytical standpoint, you are completely right; it wouldn't make much sense to continue chasing opinions across a third grading company.
The main reason I sought a second opinion with ANACS was the deep frustration of receiving NGC's vague verdict. For those of you who work in this market daily, it's tough when a corporate company leaves a paying customer completely in the limbo instead of giving a clear, definitive answer—whether good or bad. I feel ANACS should have been my first choice from the very beginning.
That being used said, I know @logger7 gave his advice in absolute good faith as a helpful suggestion for the future, and I truly appreciate his kindness. But on my end, whatever ANACS officially determines next week will either be the definitive end of this story or a fascinating "to be continued." I really appreciate your common sense!
I don’t blame you for wanting a second opinion after having received NGC’s vague verdict.
That said, while I haven’t looked at very many modern coins of this type, based on its appearance, my guess is that it’s counterfeit. You’ve focused meticulously on numerous minute details that I’m not familiar with. I, on the other hand, have been looking at the coin as a whole - the big picture. And it doesn’t look right to me.
Hi Mark, thank you so much for your honest and respected opinion! It is a huge privilege for me to be discussing this piece with the heavyweights of world numismatics; all of you on this forum are at the absolute top of the field.
To be completely honest with you, after reading all the technical arguments shared on this thread, I actually have more doubts than certainty now. I don't close my mind to the possibility that the coin might be a counterfeit, just as you suspect. At the end of the day, ANACS will deliver the final scientific verdict. But as you pointed out, what leaves the most frustration is how NGC simply washed their hands of the situation and refused to determine what the piece truly was.
Just as a fun numismatic anecdote, let me share my original hypothesis with you, even if it sounds a bit crazy now. My technical theory was based on the coin's tapered, cónico edge (thinner on one side, wider on the other). I imagined that due to this structural planchet flaw, the coin got stuck inside the edge-lettering machine's hopper at the end of 2010. Then, when the workers did the 2011 die/roller changeover, the coin dislodged, dropped down, and mixed with the planchets that were being rolled with the 2011 edge inscription.
Since Denver already had a very similar documented precedent with the famous Zachary Taylor "traveling coin" error, that history is exactly what triggered my theory. Whether it turns out to be a genuine transitional error or a highly deceptive fake, this entire journey has been worth it just for this amazing masterclass with all of you.
If you are truly interested in adding it to your collection after the ANACS verdict drops next week, feel free to send me a private message about it. Thank you for the link and the great conversation!
Hey, keep me in mind, too! 😃
I have several counterfeit Sacagawea dollars from Ecuador and I'd love to expand into the presidents.
If you are truly interested in adding it to your collection after the ANACS verdict drops next week, feel free to send me a private message about it. Thank you for the link and the great conversation!
Hey, keep me in mind, too! 😃
I have several counterfeit Sacagawea dollars from Ecuador and I'd love to expand into the presidents.
Hi JBK, you are definitely on the list, my friend!
With the kind permission of PCGS and Mark Feld being here in the thread, maybe we should officially open the auction for this unique, highly discussed, and possibly counterfeit Abraham Lincoln dollar! Let the bidding begin! How much do I hear? Who wants to start?
Jokes aside, I will absolutely keep you in mind. It is awesome to hear that you already collect these unique circulating specimens from Ecuador. Once the official ANACS certificate drops next week, if you or TrickleCharge are truly interested, feel free to send me a private message to talk about it. By the way, the coin will be staying in the US, so that will make it much easier to handle everything once the verdict is out. Thanks for the amazing support and for keeping this thread so fun!
Another option is ICG, much faster on their 5 day tier and they've hired PCGS and NGC graders in the last couple years. $25 for that tier and around $10 bucks for an attribution.
Considering that the current submission is with a different major grading company than the first one, under what circumstances would you recommend his trying a third one? I don’t see the use in that.
I just meant in general terms. Hopefully he'll get the verdict from Anacs soon.
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
We don't get any NGC folks in these parts.
For the record, I greatly appreciate your presence, kind attitude and reasonable discussion. It is a great pleasure to have you join our little club.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
We don't get any NGC folks in these parts.
For the record, I greatly appreciate your presence, kind attitude and reasonable discussion. It is a great pleasure to have you join our little club.
Thank you very much for your words! Honestly, it is a pleasure to converse in spaces where the level of culture, education, and mutual respect are the norm. Your interventions are true diamonds that enrich this thread. For me, it is an honor to be part of this club and, of course, anyone who wishes for my friendship has it completely at their disposal from this moment on. Best regards!
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
We don't get any NGC folks in these parts.
For the record, I greatly appreciate your presence, kind attitude and reasonable discussion. It is a great pleasure to have you join our little club.
Thank you very much for your words! Honestly, it is a pleasure to converse in spaces where the level of culture, education, and mutual respect are the norm. Your interventions are true diamonds that enrich this thread. For me, it is an honor to be part of this club and, of course, anyone who wishes for my friendship has it completely at their disposal from this moment on. Best regards!
You are truly a gentleman and a scholar and a rarity in the numismatic field, sir. Let us know when you get the hopefully felicitous news!
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
We don't get any NGC folks in these parts.
For the record, I greatly appreciate your presence, kind attitude and reasonable discussion. It is a great pleasure to have you join our little club.
Thank you very much for your words! Honestly, it is a pleasure to converse in spaces where the level of culture, education, and mutual respect are the norm. Your interventions are true diamonds that enrich this thread. For me, it is an honor to be part of this club and, of course, anyone who wishes for my friendship has it completely at their disposal from this moment on. Best regards!
You are truly a gentleman and a scholar and a rarity in the numismatic field, sir. Let us know when you get the hopefully felicitous news!
Hi @logger7, thank you so much for your incredibly kind words. Please know that you have a great friend here in Ecuador!
To be completely honest, the word "erudite" is way too big for me, as I am definitely not one. I am just someone who is still learning and just starting to study the fascinating branch of numismatics. What I do have is a very good memory, and I always try my best to be educated and respectful so that every word I share arrives with the best intent and the best reasoning.
Right now, I am just waiting for the final response from ANACS. As I have mentioned before, I currently have more doubts than certainty about the coin. But if it turns out to be genuine, great! And if it doesn't, that is perfectly fine too. At the very least, this entire journey has given me the incredible privilege of debating and exchanging ideas with the most influential figures in US numismatics, and that alone makes me genuinely happy.
@ricarf2386 said:
By the way, just like a senior representative from ANACS kindly showed up here to clear up my doubts, it would be absolutely perfect if someone could invite or tag a representative from NGC into this thread. To be honest, I am not sure if that is even possible on this platform, but having both perspectives here would be amazing!
We don't get any NGC folks in these parts.
For the record, I greatly appreciate your presence, kind attitude and reasonable discussion. It is a great pleasure to have you join our little club.
Thank you very much for your words! Honestly, it is a pleasure to converse in spaces where the level of culture, education, and mutual respect are the norm. Your interventions are true diamonds that enrich this thread. For me, it is an honor to be part of this club and, of course, anyone who wishes for my friendship has it completely at their disposal from this moment on. Best regards!
You are truly a gentleman and a scholar and a rarity in the numismatic field, sir. Let us know when you get the hopefully felicitous news!
Hi @logger7, thank you so much for your incredibly kind words. Please know that you have a great friend here in Ecuador!
To be completely honest, the word "erudite" is way too big for me, as I am definitely not one. I am just someone who is still learning and just starting to study the fascinating branch of numismatics. What I do have is a very good memory, and I always try my best to be educated and respectful so that every word I share arrives with the best intent and the best reasoning.
Right now, I am just waiting for the final response from ANACS. As I have mentioned before, I currently have more doubts than certainty about the coin. But if it turns out to be genuine, great! And if it doesn't, that is perfectly fine too. At the very least, this entire journey has given me the incredible privilege of debating and exchanging ideas with the most influential figures in US numismatics, and that alone makes me genuinely happy.
@JBK said:
A few people here are a bit jealous about the dollar coin opportunities you have at your fingertips.
Potential treasures like Cheerios dollars, elongated ray on the Statue of Liberty on the George Washington dollars, and numerous counterfeits of US dollar coins. Plus, some people collect "low ball" grades, and Ecuador is the absolute best place in the world to find them.
By the way...do other US coins besides dollar coins circulate there?
To be honest, I really like you, my friend! You are awesome.
To answer your question: Yes, absolutely everything here is US currency. Since our economy is fully dollarized, we use every single denomination daily: 10-cent, 25-cent, and 50-cent coins, as well as Sacagawea, Native American, and Presidential $1 coins. We also have all US paper bills circulating constantly, and many of them arrive brand new, straight from original mint boxes and Federal Reserve straps.
A fascinating historical detail about Ecuador is that silver coins are still found in normal circulation here. Because the general public does not know how to recognize coin history, people still spend 90% silver Dimes, Quarters, and Half Dollars at face value as regular pocket change. We also constantly find old wheat cents and even wartime steel cents in daily circulation.
The hunt down here is a daily adventure because you never know what historic piece has been sitting in a vault. If you’d like, I can gladly share some photos here on the thread so you can see the kind of fresh material that is being examined every single day.
Personally, I'd love to hear about the numismatic situation in Ecuador. Maybe start a new thread with a title dedicated to that so more people will see it.
My friend, I just saw your message! I would be absolutely delighted to do that. As soon as we conclude this thread regarding our dear Abe Lincoln, I will definitely open a brand new thread to give everyone a full update on the numismatic situation here in my country. From this day forward, consider me your official correspondent for the PCGS boards here in Ecuador! I will share details about the unique pieces that can still be found in circulation, as well as the treasures we collectors handle here in Guayaquil, Ecuador. I will also make sure to include clear photos of some amazing historical pieces that pass through my hands daily.
I didn't pay much attention to the merits of the submission just the enthusiasm of the submitter which was considerable. I hope he's able to deal with the letdown.
Yes, my friend, you are absolutely right, you guys hit the nail on the head! In fact, I hope you don't mind, but I will continue to wear that shirt you designed for me with total pride. This outcome was pretty much expected based on everything analyzed on these boards, since the majority here are true experts in the field.
From my end, I fulfilled my part by not staying with the doubt, which is why I sought that second opinion. I could give you plenty more fabric to cut here, but I prefer to officially close this case. Who knows what the future holds? I just can't say it yet.
Anyway, thank you so much for staying tuned and always remembering my coin. My only advice to you now is to print out a high-resolution copy of it and paste it as a poster in your room, so you can always remember this coin. Cheers!
@logger7 said:
I didn't pay much attention to the merits of the submission just the enthusiasm of the submitter which was considerable. I hope he's able to deal with the letdown.
Hi logger7! How are you doing, my friend? To be honest, my enthusiasm is still alive and well! If I told you the truth, numismatics here in my country isn't as intensely passionate among the general public as it is among you guys. Because of that, there are countless pieces out there where people have no idea what they are holding in their hands, so my daily hunt never stops.
Every single day, I keep acquiring more and more pieces, waiting for the right moment to submit another coin or banknote for certification in the near future. When that time comes, I will take the liberty of reaching out to you guys for guidance—especially to those who want to help with a good heart.
Truthfully, this doesn't hurt at all. As I mentioned before, the pure experience I’ve gained by interacting with all of you is highly valuable, and it completely covers all the expenses that went into this coin. I feel very happy with this outcome, and just like I told you last time, you have a great friend over here. Cheers!
We're here to help! I used to do a lot more for friends until I went all out putting a lot of money for their benefit and there was no reciprocity, so I'm more guarded now. I met with a fellow today with a lot of largely foreign Canadian coins and I referred him to a shop that is not "jaded" and would be willing to help him.
I know that you spent some money and were really hoping that you had found a mule error.
However, i am excited for you in that you have seen that you probably have a jackpot of circulating counterfeits at your fingertips. That is a real treasure to be found.
That is so true, MsMorrisine. We all make mistakes, but if I hadn't sent this coin for certification, I wouldn't have had the wonderful privilege of exchanging messages with all of you right now. Truly, I don't regret a single thing. As I mentioned in my previous posts, very soon I will open a brand new thread to tell you a bit about how numismatics moves here in my beloved country, Ecuador
@JBK said:
I know that you spent some money and were really hoping that you had found a mule error.
However, i am excited for you in that you have seen that you probably have a jackpot of circulating counterfeits at your fingertips. That is a real treasure to be found.
hmmm. a coinalbum of low grade circs and a second of counterfeits
@logger7 said:
We're here to help! I used to do a lot more for friends until I went all out putting a lot of money for their benefit and there was no reciprocity, so I'm more guarded now. I met with a fellow today with a lot of largely foreign Canadian coins and I referred him to a shop that is not "jaded" and would be willing to help him.
That's exactly right, my friend, and I can clearly see now that your help always came from a good place. From the very first message you posted, your intention was always to try and guide me, and I deeply appreciate that.
Unfortunately, we both know how the world works; you simply cannot trust everyone, because not everyone is going to repay you with the same energy and genuine care that you put out there. Since you have so much experience under your belt, it is completely natural and smart that you've adapted to protect yourself like that.
Even so, I can tell you still have a great heart, and you will continue to open it to those who truly deserve it. I will definitely be around here for a very long time to come. You have a true brother here!
@JBK said:
I know that you spent some money and were really hoping that you had found a mule error.
However, i am excited for you in that you have seen that you probably have a jackpot of circulating counterfeits at your fingertips. That is a real treasure to be found.
Hi JBK! How are you doing, my friend? You hit the nail on the head! This coin wasn't just a potential mule error; it also featured a 90-degree die rotation, weighed exactly 7.7 grams, and carried a long list of other technical anomalies.
If I told you how many endless hours I invested in researching the production numbers, you would be truly surprised! It got burned into my memory that exactly 97,440,000 Abraham Lincoln dollars were struck, out of a total of over 2,680,000,000 Presidential dollars minted. Looking at those staggering numbers, it seemed stratospheric to find a piece with so many compounding errors, which is why it demanded such rigorous study.
I can laugh about it now, but the knowledge and data gained from those long hours of analysis are priceless. And you are totally right—finding these high-end, contemporary counterfeits in circulation over here is a unique treasure hunt of its own. Thanks for staying tuned, my friend!
@jmlanzaf said:
Still, nothing but respect for you, sir.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, jmlanzaf. Your words truly hit home and are like praise to my eyes. On these boards, everyone knows that a high post count and those stars carry massive weight, identifying the most relevant and respected authorities in the hobby. Seeing someone of your immense stature show such humility means the world to me and deeply touches my heart. You are a true gentleman, sir, and your humility speaks volumes. Please know that you have a great, loyal friend over here in Ecuador. Respect!
@jmlanzaf said:
Still, nothing but respect for you, sir.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, jmlanzaf. Your words truly hit home and are like praise to my eyes. On these boards, everyone knows that a high post count and those stars carry massive weight, identifying the most relevant and respected authorities in the hobby. Seeing someone of your immense stature show such humility means the world to me and deeply touches my heart. You are a true gentleman, sir, and your humility speaks volumes. Please know that you have a great, loyal friend over here in Ecuador. Respect!
everyone knows that a high post count and those stars carry massive weight
actually both are meaningless when it comes to knowledge and numismatic experience.
That is good to know, MsMorrisine. If I am mistaken, I sincerely apologize. I simply assumed that, from what I can see, the high number of interactions and stars on this platform represented the wealth of experience accumulated over all these years. In my eyes, you are also a highly influential person on these boards, and you actively contributed many forensic, technical, and photographic insights throughout the review of my coin. If I misunderstood how this system works, I deeply apologize once again.
@BruceS said:
Great thread, and we welcome you to share more and appreciate your thoughtfulness in every response.
A little kindness, even when provoked, goes a long way!
Very easy to be kind when the OP is not defensive and hallucinatory. Disappointing results for the OP but he accepted with grace and acknowledged reality. Those qualities are in short supply with a lot of the newbie "error coin" posts on this forum.
@BruceS said:
Great thread, and we welcome you to share more and appreciate your thoughtfulness in every response.
A little kindness, even when provoked, goes a long way!
Very easy to be kind when the OP is not defensive and hallucinatory. Disappointing results for the OP but he accepted with grace and acknowledged reality. Those qualities are in short supply with a lot of the newbie "error coin" posts on this forum.
Thank you very much for your perspective, lermish! You are completely right. When you build a case based on facts, data, and hard evidence, there is no personal thought or opinion that can fight against that; it becomes irrefutable. That is the only scientific way to approach this beautiful hobby.
As for the kindness, I owe it entirely to my parents, who always instilled the best values in me from a young age. My philosophy is to always provide an intelligent, respectful reply that matches the technical facts and aligns with whoever I am debating. Interacting with professional and knowledgeable gentlemen like you and BruceS makes this entire journey completely worth it. Thank you for the incredible welcome!
And look at this, my friends! This was the front artwork for my shirt design. As I told you before, it took endless hours of study, creativity, and deep research, originally thinking it would be the perfect promotion for my coin.
Today, I can look back, take it with a laugh, and enjoy the humor of the journey. If you look closely, on the sleeves I captured the dual-date mule error that I discovered. And on the chest, where the obverse and reverse are featured, I actually designed the Statue of Liberty turned exactly at a 90-degree angle, matching the die rotation error I found on the coin.
What do you guys think of the design and the technical details?
Comments
Even if it comes back as counterfeit, which seems likely, a circulating counterfeit die struck modern dollar is pretty interesting. I wouldn't hesitate to add one to my collection.
Some info on counterfeit dollar coins can be found on the small dollar website.
https://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/add014a.html
Hi TrickleCharge, to be completely honest, I had no idea about the advanced level and reach that counterfeiters have achieved in recent years; I was not aware of it at all. My only knowledge was about crude cast counterfeits made with molds, and I actually own one of those fake Sacagawea dollars myself.
If this Lincoln dollar turns out to be a counterfeit, the level of detail is honestly supreme. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, the depth and the look in Lincoln's eyes are perfect. Either the die was crafted with extreme precision, or this coin was one of the very first ones struck before that fake die began to wear down.
If you are truly interested in adding it to your collection after the ANACS verdict drops next week, feel free to send me a private message about it. Thank you for the link and the great conversation!
don' expect a response from anacs that differs from ngc or pcgs. you'll get a grade or no grade and that's about it. i'm surprised someone at ngc was willing to discuss why something body bagged. they can't do this for everyone
Hi MsMorrisine, the beauty of living in this era is that we have the internet, where all of this numismatic history is already written and documented. And now, combined with the power of AI tools, a single precise keyword can pull up detailed breakdowns of everything that has happened in the past.
To back up my stance, here are two famous, documented cases in US numismatic history where there was a major clash of opinions or technical errors between the top grading services:
The 1796 Draped Bust Dime: PCGS initially refused to grade this piece, returning it unholdered as "altered/damaged." The owner then resubmitted the exact same coin to NGC, where their technicians certified it as a completely genuine, natural specimen, grading it XF-40 and validating an $11,000 piece.
The 1806 C-1 Half Cents (no stemmed reverse variety): Both major grading services authenticated and slabbed a deceptive group of these coins as genuine for a long time. Years later, through advanced microscopic analysis, experts discovered a tiny transfer die defect—a microscopic "plug" inside the letter 'A' of HALF—proving that highly sophisticated transfer dies had completely fooled the multi-million dollar grading rooms into certifying counterfeits.
Labs are run by humans, and discrepancies happen all the time. That is why seeking a scientific tiebreaker with ANACS makes perfect sense!
I don’t blame you for wanting a second opinion after having received NGC’s vague verdict.
That said, while I haven’t looked at very many modern coins of this type, based on its appearance, my guess is that it’s counterfeit. You’ve focused meticulously on numerous minute details that I’m not familiar with. I, on the other hand, have been looking at the coin as a whole - the big picture. And it doesn’t look right to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Hi Mark, thank you so much for your honest and respected opinion! It is a huge privilege for me to be discussing this piece with the heavyweights of world numismatics; all of you on this forum are at the absolute top of the field.
To be completely honest with you, after reading all the technical arguments shared on this thread, I actually have more doubts than certainty now. I don't close my mind to the possibility that the coin might be a counterfeit, just as you suspect. At the end of the day, ANACS will deliver the final scientific verdict. But as you pointed out, what leaves the most frustration is how NGC simply washed their hands of the situation and refused to determine what the piece truly was.
Just as a fun numismatic anecdote, let me share my original hypothesis with you, even if it sounds a bit crazy now. My technical theory was based on the coin's tapered, cónico edge (thinner on one side, wider on the other). I imagined that due to this structural planchet flaw, the coin got stuck inside the edge-lettering machine's hopper at the end of 2010. Then, when the workers did the 2011 die/roller changeover, the coin dislodged, dropped down, and mixed with the planchets that were being rolled with the 2011 edge inscription.
Since Denver already had a very similar documented precedent with the famous Zachary Taylor "traveling coin" error, that history is exactly what triggered my theory. Whether it turns out to be a genuine transitional error or a highly deceptive fake, this entire journey has been worth it just for this amazing masterclass with all of you.
Hey, keep me in mind, too! 😃
I have several counterfeit Sacagawea dollars from Ecuador and I'd love to expand into the presidents.
Hi JBK, you are definitely on the list, my friend!
With the kind permission of PCGS and Mark Feld being here in the thread, maybe we should officially open the auction for this unique, highly discussed, and possibly counterfeit Abraham Lincoln dollar! Let the bidding begin! How much do I hear? Who wants to start?
Jokes aside, I will absolutely keep you in mind. It is awesome to hear that you already collect these unique circulating specimens from Ecuador. Once the official ANACS certificate drops next week, if you or TrickleCharge are truly interested, feel free to send me a private message to talk about it. By the way, the coin will be staying in the US, so that will make it much easier to handle everything once the verdict is out. Thanks for the amazing support and for keeping this thread so fun!
I just meant in general terms. Hopefully he'll get the verdict from Anacs soon.
We don't get any NGC folks in these parts.
For the record, I greatly appreciate your presence, kind attitude and reasonable discussion. It is a great pleasure to have you join our little club.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thank you very much for your words! Honestly, it is a pleasure to converse in spaces where the level of culture, education, and mutual respect are the norm. Your interventions are true diamonds that enrich this thread. For me, it is an honor to be part of this club and, of course, anyone who wishes for my friendship has it completely at their disposal from this moment on. Best regards!
You are truly a gentleman and a scholar and a rarity in the numismatic field, sir. Let us know when you get the hopefully felicitous news!
Hi @logger7, thank you so much for your incredibly kind words. Please know that you have a great friend here in Ecuador!
To be completely honest, the word "erudite" is way too big for me, as I am definitely not one. I am just someone who is still learning and just starting to study the fascinating branch of numismatics. What I do have is a very good memory, and I always try my best to be educated and respectful so that every word I share arrives with the best intent and the best reasoning.
Right now, I am just waiting for the final response from ANACS. As I have mentioned before, I currently have more doubts than certainty about the coin. But if it turns out to be genuine, great! And if it doesn't, that is perfectly fine too. At the very least, this entire journey has given me the incredible privilege of debating and exchanging ideas with the most influential figures in US numismatics, and that alone makes me genuinely happy.
Hi @logger7, thank you so much for your incredibly kind words. Please know that you have a great friend here in Ecuador!
To be completely honest, the word "erudite" is way too big for me, as I am definitely not one. I am just someone who is still learning and just starting to study the fascinating branch of numismatics. What I do have is a very good memory, and I always try my best to be educated and respectful so that every word I share arrives with the best intent and the best reasoning.
Right now, I am just waiting for the final response from ANACS. As I have mentioned before, I currently have more doubts than certainty about the coin. But if it turns out to be genuine, great! And if it doesn't, that is perfectly fine too. At the very least, this entire journey has given me the incredible privilege of debating and exchanging ideas with the most influential figures in US numismatics, and that alone makes me genuinely happy.
My friend, I just saw your message! I would be absolutely delighted to do that. As soon as we conclude this thread regarding our dear Abe Lincoln, I will definitely open a brand new thread to give everyone a full update on the numismatic situation here in my country. From this day forward, consider me your official correspondent for the PCGS boards here in Ecuador! I will share details about the unique pieces that can still be found in circulation, as well as the treasures we collectors handle here in Guayaquil, Ecuador. I will also make sure to include clear photos of some amazing historical pieces that pass through my hands daily.
As we predicted:
I didn't pay much attention to the merits of the submission just the enthusiasm of the submitter which was considerable. I hope he's able to deal with the letdown.
Yes, my friend, you are absolutely right, you guys hit the nail on the head! In fact, I hope you don't mind, but I will continue to wear that shirt you designed for me with total pride. This outcome was pretty much expected based on everything analyzed on these boards, since the majority here are true experts in the field.
From my end, I fulfilled my part by not staying with the doubt, which is why I sought that second opinion. I could give you plenty more fabric to cut here, but I prefer to officially close this case. Who knows what the future holds? I just can't say it yet.
Anyway, thank you so much for staying tuned and always remembering my coin. My only advice to you now is to print out a high-resolution copy of it and paste it as a poster in your room, so you can always remember this coin. Cheers!
Hi logger7! How are you doing, my friend? To be honest, my enthusiasm is still alive and well! If I told you the truth, numismatics here in my country isn't as intensely passionate among the general public as it is among you guys. Because of that, there are countless pieces out there where people have no idea what they are holding in their hands, so my daily hunt never stops.
Every single day, I keep acquiring more and more pieces, waiting for the right moment to submit another coin or banknote for certification in the near future. When that time comes, I will take the liberty of reaching out to you guys for guidance—especially to those who want to help with a good heart.
Truthfully, this doesn't hurt at all. As I mentioned before, the pure experience I’ve gained by interacting with all of you is highly valuable, and it completely covers all the expenses that went into this coin. I feel very happy with this outcome, and just like I told you last time, you have a great friend over here. Cheers!
we make mistakes too
stick around. hang out
We're here to help! I used to do a lot more for friends until I went all out putting a lot of money for their benefit and there was no reciprocity, so I'm more guarded now. I met with a fellow today with a lot of largely foreign Canadian coins and I referred him to a shop that is not "jaded" and would be willing to help him.
I know that you spent some money and were really hoping that you had found a mule error.
However, i am excited for you in that you have seen that you probably have a jackpot of circulating counterfeits at your fingertips. That is a real treasure to be found.
That is so true, MsMorrisine. We all make mistakes, but if I hadn't sent this coin for certification, I wouldn't have had the wonderful privilege of exchanging messages with all of you right now. Truly, I don't regret a single thing. As I mentioned in my previous posts, very soon I will open a brand new thread to tell you a bit about how numismatics moves here in my beloved country, Ecuador
hmmm. a coinalbum of low grade circs and a second of counterfeits
That's exactly right, my friend, and I can clearly see now that your help always came from a good place. From the very first message you posted, your intention was always to try and guide me, and I deeply appreciate that.
Unfortunately, we both know how the world works; you simply cannot trust everyone, because not everyone is going to repay you with the same energy and genuine care that you put out there. Since you have so much experience under your belt, it is completely natural and smart that you've adapted to protect yourself like that.
Even so, I can tell you still have a great heart, and you will continue to open it to those who truly deserve it. I will definitely be around here for a very long time to come. You have a true brother here!
Still, nothing but respect for you, sir.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Hi JBK! How are you doing, my friend? You hit the nail on the head! This coin wasn't just a potential mule error; it also featured a 90-degree die rotation, weighed exactly 7.7 grams, and carried a long list of other technical anomalies.
If I told you how many endless hours I invested in researching the production numbers, you would be truly surprised! It got burned into my memory that exactly 97,440,000 Abraham Lincoln dollars were struck, out of a total of over 2,680,000,000 Presidential dollars minted. Looking at those staggering numbers, it seemed stratospheric to find a piece with so many compounding errors, which is why it demanded such rigorous study.
I can laugh about it now, but the knowledge and data gained from those long hours of analysis are priceless. And you are totally right—finding these high-end, contemporary counterfeits in circulation over here is a unique treasure hunt of its own. Thanks for staying tuned, my friend!
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, jmlanzaf. Your words truly hit home and are like praise to my eyes. On these boards, everyone knows that a high post count and those stars carry massive weight, identifying the most relevant and respected authorities in the hobby. Seeing someone of your immense stature show such humility means the world to me and deeply touches my heart. You are a true gentleman, sir, and your humility speaks volumes. Please know that you have a great, loyal friend over here in Ecuador. Respect!
actually both are meaningless when it comes to knowledge and numismatic experience.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, jmlanzaf. Your words truly hit home and are like praise to my eyes. On these boards, everyone knows that a high post count and those stars carry massive weight, identifying the most relevant and respected authorities in the hobby. Seeing someone of your immense stature show such humility means the world to me and deeply touches my heart. You are a true gentleman, sir, and your humility speaks volumes. Please know that you have a great, loyal friend over here in Ecuador. Respect!
That is good to know, MsMorrisine. If I am mistaken, I sincerely apologize. I simply assumed that, from what I can see, the high number of interactions and stars on this platform represented the wealth of experience accumulated over all these years. In my eyes, you are also a highly influential person on these boards, and you actively contributed many forensic, technical, and photographic insights throughout the review of my coin. If I misunderstood how this system works, I deeply apologize once again.
Great thread, and we welcome you to share more and appreciate your thoughtfulness in every response.
A little kindness, even when provoked, goes a long way!
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Very easy to be kind when the OP is not defensive and hallucinatory. Disappointing results for the OP but he accepted with grace and acknowledged reality. Those qualities are in short supply with a lot of the newbie "error coin" posts on this forum.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Thank you very much for your perspective, lermish! You are completely right. When you build a case based on facts, data, and hard evidence, there is no personal thought or opinion that can fight against that; it becomes irrefutable. That is the only scientific way to approach this beautiful hobby.
As for the kindness, I owe it entirely to my parents, who always instilled the best values in me from a young age. My philosophy is to always provide an intelligent, respectful reply that matches the technical facts and aligns with whoever I am debating. Interacting with professional and knowledgeable gentlemen like you and BruceS makes this entire journey completely worth it. Thank you for the incredible welcome!
And look at this, my friends! This was the front artwork for my shirt design. As I told you before, it took endless hours of study, creativity, and deep research, originally thinking it would be the perfect promotion for my coin.
Today, I can look back, take it with a laugh, and enjoy the humor of the journey. If you look closely, on the sleeves I captured the dual-date mule error that I discovered. And on the chest, where the obverse and reverse are featured, I actually designed the Statue of Liberty turned exactly at a 90-degree angle, matching the die rotation error I found on the coin.
What do you guys think of the design and the technical details?
