@cladking said:
One of the things they're learning is that if you want to actually lay your hands on a coin you might have to pay well over catalog or even... ...gasp... ...pay retail which can be thirty or forty times wholesale.
That's certainly a respectable markup. What coins retail for amounts like that?
Thew '66 cent is a 10 1/2c coin in the Redbook but are bringing as much as $3.75 retail. There are numerous examples but this one seems relevant.
Sorry, no. The markup on 10 cent catalog value coins has nothing to do with the value of the coin and everything to do with the cost of handling them.
Do better.
Yeah. I would have to charge you $1 to ship you an empty envelope in the US. If you want an empty envelope sent to Canada, it'll cost you $3.
If a telemarketer hyped a "thirty or forty times wholesale" markup on a coin like that [The '66 cent is a 10 1/2c coin] in order to move out a bunch of moderns, he'd get ripped as a scammer here.
@HIGHLOWLEAVES said:
I checked each of the two BU roll sources in a previous message here and found that neither of the two coin businesses offered rolls of BU Ike Dollars. I thought these modern day coins were available at give away cheap prices. I am starting to appreciate obtaining nice Eisenhower Dollars. Someday they maybe popular and nice sets be assembled. Just my thoughts.
I have a few hundred Ike’s I saved from mint sets. Ones that are nice but not nice enough to slab, 63 to 66 mostly MS65s and attractively toned.
I’ve seen the ask 1.50 on the bay a while back. I’d be good with that.
Nice speaking with you Mark @HIGHLOWLEAVES Your a true gentleman. Some of these are better than I remember, enjoy.
Turned your thread into the BST @cladking my bad...
Now back to your regular programming.
It's only anecdotal evidence but this is my favorite kind!
I'm seeing a crucial pattern developing that may indicate a market on the verge of collapse and recreation. Specifically it's getting more difficult to get the older mint sets at bid from coin shops and small dealers. These have been earmarked for special buyers for years now who pay strong prices for pristine sets. But now more and more sets are being purchased on-line by retail buyers who pay as much as triple wholesale depriving the special buyer of sets.
Meanwhile the REAL problem is unmasked: If most of the mint sets are moving at retail then where do BU rolls come from. There is a growing list of BU rolls that are simply unavailable and the demand is still increasing. Before now it was merely mint sets and chBU singles in short supply but now BU rolls which have soaked up some of the excess are also in short supply.
@cladking said:
It's only anecdotal evidence but this is my favorite kind!
I'm seeing a crucial pattern developing that may indicate a market on the verge of collapse and recreation. Specifically it's getting more difficult to get the older mint sets at bid from coin shops and small dealers. These have been earmarked for special buyers for years now who pay strong prices for pristine sets. But now more and more sets are being purchased on-line by retail buyers who pay as much as triple wholesale depriving the special buyer of sets.
Meanwhile the REAL problem is unmasked: If most of the mint sets are moving at retail then where do BU rolls come from. There is a growing list of BU rolls that are simply unavailable and the demand is still increasing. Before now it was merely mint sets and chBU singles in short supply but now BU rolls which have soaked up some of the excess are also in short supply.
Every dealer i know is still dumping them to any wholesaler who will take them. Except for one who simply won't buy them for more than face value - and sometimes less.
While there are pockets of interest (Ikes), the overall market for these remains bad. I don't know where you are seeing this booming retail trade.
Aunt Martha died in 2005.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The good news is that everyone on earth has about eight billion cousins (up to about 12th and 100 times removed). They aren't all looking for circulation issue 1966 pennies but an awful lot of them like Ike. They like the kennedies. They want pennies and nickels and mint sets are the source of these coins.
It doesn't matter why the sets are starting to be earmarked for retail sale, merely that they are.
Of course every dealer and collector haven't forgotten these are modern crap and aren't buying because your cousins are.
All the mint sets currently on the market don't amount to even one half of one percent of mintage. Many of these are picked over or tarnished. Their disposition is irrelevant to the size of the forces at work.
@HIGHLOWLEAVES said:
I find that mint sets that contain Ike Dollars are very difficult to buy at bid prices. What is going on ? Comments welcome.
This is just the early stages of competition with aunt Martha's kids. RIP, (I hated spelling Poughkeepsie anyway. Most of the kids live in Albany which is much easier to spell and you just have to remember that just like New York it does have a capital.) More and more dealers have direct access to ebay and online venues to sell mint sets at far higher prices and are capitalizing on it (small "c", not big "C"). This is no immediate problem for those assembling rolls because there are tens of thousands of mint sets actually on the market or held by very weak hands. These are still being cut up for rolls or to haul to the bank.
But once these are gone there are no more because (how many timers have I said?). Mint set originate at the corner coin shop and are brought in by the heirs of the original; purchasers. These forces are now cutting them off at the pass before they get to the entities making BU rolls.
The mint sets will dry up apace and the supply of BU rolls will simply stop.
This is hitting Ikes first because they are so popular with the public. They not only selectively and specifically buy Ike mint sets but they also buy singles and rolls.
@HIGHLOWLEAVES said:
I find that mint sets that contain Ike Dollars are very difficult to buy at bid prices. What is going on ? Comments welcome.
Copilot-
_This is just the early stage of competition with Aunt Martha’s kids. Mint sets don’t come from the Mint anymore—they come from estates. The original buyers are gone, and the heirs bring the sets to the corner coin shop. That’s the supply.
What’s changed is that more dealers now sell mint sets directly on eBay and other online venues at much higher prices. They’re intercepting the sets before they reach the people who cut them up for BU rolls. That’s why you can’t buy Ike‑era mint sets at bid. The supply is being diverted upstream.
There’s no immediate shortage for roll‑builders because tens of thousands of sets are still in weak hands. They’re still being cut up or hauled to the bank. But once those are gone, they’re gone. There is no new supply. Mint sets don’t regenerate.
Ikes are getting hit first because they’re popular with the general public. People buy Ike mint sets, Ike singles, and Ike rolls. So the pressure shows up there before it spreads to the rest of the series.
The mint sets will dry up, and the BU‑roll supply will simply stop._
@jmlanzaf said:
Every dealer i know is still dumping them to any wholesaler who will take them. Except for one who simply won't buy them for more than face value - and sometimes less.
Your cousins in Albany found out long ago that coin shops are not a good place to find Ikes. Most shops don't stock moderns because there is no market and there is very tiny mark-up even if selling at retail. So most sit in the comfort of their homes and pay 15 or $20 for a 2005 mint set which reminds them of aunt Martha and her coin collection.
The thing people are missing is that these coins are simply gone now. They've been neglected, abused, ignored, and marginalized for three generations. Those in circulation are mostly gone and what's left is severely degraded. Mint sets have simply deteriorated and been destroyed. The coins are gone. WW II veterans were mostly young men but those who survived the axis have succumbed to the bottleneck and very few survive. Clad coins were designed to last for 30 years not 76 like veterans so they are passing into memory and history as well. The half life of mint sets is mostly irrelevant because it is wholly dependent on the behavior of collectors who hated them.
The numbers of on-line mint set sellers is increasing geometrically but most seem to have a lot of trouble keeping them in stock. This problem is about to become acute simultaneously with the supply of BU rolls.
.
Copilot-
_"Every dealer you know is still dumping mint sets because they’re treating them as modern junk. But your cousins in Albany figured out long ago that coin shops aren’t where you find Ikes. Most shops don’t stock moderns because the mark‑up is tiny and the demand is inconsistent. So the public buys online. They sit at home and pay $15–$20 for a 2005 mint set because it reminds them of Aunt Martha and her collection.
The part people are missing is that the coins themselves are simply gone now. Three generations of neglect, abuse, and indifference have taken their toll. Circulation examples are mostly destroyed. What survives is degraded. Mint sets have been tossed, opened, stored badly, or ruined. Their half‑life doesn’t matter because it depends entirely on collector behavior—and collectors hated them.
Clad coins were designed to last about 30 years, not 76. They’re disappearing the same way WWII veterans did: slowly at first, then suddenly. The bottleneck is real.
Meanwhile, the number of online sellers offering mint sets is increasing geometrically, but most can’t keep them in stock. That’s the signal. The supply chain is shifting. Dealers are intercepting sets before they reach wholesalers. Wholesalers are intercepting before they reach roll‑makers. And the public is intercepting before they reach anyone.
This pressure is about to hit the BU‑roll supply at the exact same moment the mint‑set supply dries up."_
I was looking for Burger King for a lunch combo (why I don't know) but somehow stumbled onto this thread again.
The one thing in common is that there sure are a lot of "whoppers" in both, and I didn't even know there was such a thing as a double super super sized version either.
It's even better when combined with creative story time.
I think a lot of BU rolls have been picked over by now.
However A decade or so ago really nice pickup from my table at a show (for retail inventory) from bourse room customer - Franklin Roll nice BU coins - I slabbed most of them.
@Cougar1978 said:
I think a lot of BU rolls have been picked over by now.
A decade or so ago made really nice $ getting most of the coins slabbed from a Frank roll super nice return for me. Before could put it away some guy wanted look at it. Quickly put in my zip show bag. Told him it’s for a customer (me).
At the risk of sounding like I don't agree...
The old rolls from before 1965 are sometimes picked over but this is far less of an issue with moderns because there are so few rolls. When modern rolls have been cherry picked over the last 60 years they tend to go into circulation because there was no market for them. So no rolls plus spent rolls equals no cherry picked rolls.
But, yes, of course you're right that there are cherry picked rolls in existence and even most of the hand assembled mint set rolls are going to be chBU with a few Gems and a very low probability of very high grade coins. Assemblers are aware that very high grade coins and varieties have a premium so they don't end up in rolls very often.
But just to be clear the BU rolls are mostly of exceedingly good quality because they are mint set coins and while the top 1% might be removed so is the bottom 25%. The worst mint set coins can not be sold as chBU and this means at least 5% and as much as 50% are just face value. Assembling rolls is an art. Original rolls are rare but tend to be horrendous quality with as few as 1% being "chBU". I would wager there isn't one single well made Gem 1982-P or 1969 quarter in an original roll. Not one, anywhere. They simply do not exist in this format. I would further wager there are no nore than 3 or 4 well made Gem 1969 quarters in all the chBU rolls that have been assembled for sale, and similar number of '82-P's. These are hardly the only modern rarities and merely the ones with which I am most familiar.
@oreville said:
Still hanging onto my obw cent rolls.
Yeah, you were one of the people I was thinking about when I said that many cherry picked modern rolls end up in circulation. I've saved so few of these but they are the only way you can get nice attractive coins that aren't obviously mint set in some cases and the sole source of most varieties.
I've always looked for nice attractive end coins and since they often appear in batches you can see a pretty good sample.
Comments
If a telemarketer hyped a "thirty or forty times wholesale" markup on a coin like that [The '66 cent is a 10 1/2c coin] in order to move out a bunch of moderns, he'd get ripped as a scammer here.
Just sayin'.
I have a few hundred Ike’s I saved from mint sets. Ones that are nice but not nice enough to slab, 63 to 66 mostly MS65s and attractively toned.
I’ve seen the ask 1.50 on the bay a while back. I’d be good with that.
Time for show and tell this thread needs some more pics 😛
Nice speaking with you Mark @HIGHLOWLEAVES Your a true gentleman. Some of these are better than I remember, enjoy.
my bad...
Turned your thread into the BST @cladking
Now back to your regular programming.
It's only anecdotal evidence but this is my favorite kind!
I'm seeing a crucial pattern developing that may indicate a market on the verge of collapse and recreation. Specifically it's getting more difficult to get the older mint sets at bid from coin shops and small dealers. These have been earmarked for special buyers for years now who pay strong prices for pristine sets. But now more and more sets are being purchased on-line by retail buyers who pay as much as triple wholesale depriving the special buyer of sets.
It used to be buyers and wholesalers who created the BU rolls but even the largest retailers like Golden Eagle https://www.goldeneaglecoin.com/proof-sets--mint-sets/uncirculated-mint-sets/uncirculated-mint-sets-1959_date?q=&sortBy=default&page=2 have been out of key date mint sets (like the '73 and '75) for weeks now. This forces aunt Martha to buy one at double or triple wholesale on-line.
Meanwhile the REAL problem is unmasked: If most of the mint sets are moving at retail then where do BU rolls come from. There is a growing list of BU rolls that are simply unavailable and the demand is still increasing. Before now it was merely mint sets and chBU singles in short supply but now BU rolls which have soaked up some of the excess are also in short supply.
I find that mint sets that contain Ike Dollars are very difficult to buy at bid prices. What is going on ? Comments welcome.
Every dealer i know is still dumping them to any wholesaler who will take them. Except for one who simply won't buy them for more than face value - and sometimes less.
While there are pockets of interest (Ikes), the overall market for these remains bad. I don't know where you are seeing this booming retail trade.
Aunt Martha died in 2005.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The good news is that everyone on earth has about eight billion cousins (up to about 12th and 100 times removed). They aren't all looking for circulation issue 1966 pennies but an awful lot of them like Ike. They like the kennedies. They want pennies and nickels and mint sets are the source of these coins.
It doesn't matter why the sets are starting to be earmarked for retail sale, merely that they are.
Of course every dealer and collector haven't forgotten these are modern crap and aren't buying because your cousins are.
All the mint sets currently on the market don't amount to even one half of one percent of mintage. Many of these are picked over or tarnished. Their disposition is irrelevant to the size of the forces at work.
Ask your AI. It can explain it better than I.
This is just the early stages of competition with aunt Martha's kids. RIP, (I hated spelling Poughkeepsie anyway. Most of the kids live in Albany which is much easier to spell and you just have to remember that just like New York it does have a capital.) More and more dealers have direct access to ebay and online venues to sell mint sets at far higher prices and are capitalizing on it (small "c", not big "C"). This is no immediate problem for those assembling rolls because there are tens of thousands of mint sets actually on the market or held by very weak hands. These are still being cut up for rolls or to haul to the bank.
But once these are gone there are no more because (how many timers have I said?). Mint set originate at the corner coin shop and are brought in by the heirs of the original; purchasers. These forces are now cutting them off at the pass before they get to the entities making BU rolls.
The mint sets will dry up apace and the supply of BU rolls will simply stop.
This is hitting Ikes first because they are so popular with the public. They not only selectively and specifically buy Ike mint sets but they also buy singles and rolls.
Copilot-
_This is just the early stage of competition with Aunt Martha’s kids. Mint sets don’t come from the Mint anymore—they come from estates. The original buyers are gone, and the heirs bring the sets to the corner coin shop. That’s the supply.
What’s changed is that more dealers now sell mint sets directly on eBay and other online venues at much higher prices. They’re intercepting the sets before they reach the people who cut them up for BU rolls. That’s why you can’t buy Ike‑era mint sets at bid. The supply is being diverted upstream.
There’s no immediate shortage for roll‑builders because tens of thousands of sets are still in weak hands. They’re still being cut up or hauled to the bank. But once those are gone, they’re gone. There is no new supply. Mint sets don’t regenerate.
Ikes are getting hit first because they’re popular with the general public. People buy Ike mint sets, Ike singles, and Ike rolls. So the pressure shows up there before it spreads to the rest of the series.
The mint sets will dry up, and the BU‑roll supply will simply stop._
Your cousins in Albany found out long ago that coin shops are not a good place to find Ikes. Most shops don't stock moderns because there is no market and there is very tiny mark-up even if selling at retail. So most sit in the comfort of their homes and pay 15 or $20 for a 2005 mint set which reminds them of aunt Martha and her coin collection.
The thing people are missing is that these coins are simply gone now. They've been neglected, abused, ignored, and marginalized for three generations. Those in circulation are mostly gone and what's left is severely degraded. Mint sets have simply deteriorated and been destroyed. The coins are gone. WW II veterans were mostly young men but those who survived the axis have succumbed to the bottleneck and very few survive. Clad coins were designed to last for 30 years not 76 like veterans so they are passing into memory and history as well. The half life of mint sets is mostly irrelevant because it is wholly dependent on the behavior of collectors who hated them.
The numbers of on-line mint set sellers is increasing geometrically but most seem to have a lot of trouble keeping them in stock. This problem is about to become acute simultaneously with the supply of BU rolls.
.
Copilot-
_"Every dealer you know is still dumping mint sets because they’re treating them as modern junk. But your cousins in Albany figured out long ago that coin shops aren’t where you find Ikes. Most shops don’t stock moderns because the mark‑up is tiny and the demand is inconsistent. So the public buys online. They sit at home and pay $15–$20 for a 2005 mint set because it reminds them of Aunt Martha and her collection.
The part people are missing is that the coins themselves are simply gone now. Three generations of neglect, abuse, and indifference have taken their toll. Circulation examples are mostly destroyed. What survives is degraded. Mint sets have been tossed, opened, stored badly, or ruined. Their half‑life doesn’t matter because it depends entirely on collector behavior—and collectors hated them.
Clad coins were designed to last about 30 years, not 76. They’re disappearing the same way WWII veterans did: slowly at first, then suddenly. The bottleneck is real.
Meanwhile, the number of online sellers offering mint sets is increasing geometrically, but most can’t keep them in stock. That’s the signal. The supply chain is shifting. Dealers are intercepting sets before they reach wholesalers. Wholesalers are intercepting before they reach roll‑makers. And the public is intercepting before they reach anyone.
This pressure is about to hit the BU‑roll supply at the exact same moment the mint‑set supply dries up."_
I was looking for Burger King for a lunch combo (why I don't know) but somehow stumbled onto this thread again.
The one thing in common is that there sure are a lot of "whoppers" in both, and I didn't even know there was such a thing as a double super super sized version either.
It's even better when combined with creative story time.
Wow, what I have learned from this thread.
I think a lot of BU rolls have been picked over by now.
However A decade or so ago really nice pickup from my table at a show (for retail inventory) from bourse room customer - Franklin Roll nice BU coins - I slabbed most of them.
At the risk of sounding like I don't agree...
The old rolls from before 1965 are sometimes picked over but this is far less of an issue with moderns because there are so few rolls. When modern rolls have been cherry picked over the last 60 years they tend to go into circulation because there was no market for them. So no rolls plus spent rolls equals no cherry picked rolls.
But, yes, of course you're right that there are cherry picked rolls in existence and even most of the hand assembled mint set rolls are going to be chBU with a few Gems and a very low probability of very high grade coins. Assemblers are aware that very high grade coins and varieties have a premium so they don't end up in rolls very often.
But just to be clear the BU rolls are mostly of exceedingly good quality because they are mint set coins and while the top 1% might be removed so is the bottom 25%. The worst mint set coins can not be sold as chBU and this means at least 5% and as much as 50% are just face value. Assembling rolls is an art. Original rolls are rare but tend to be horrendous quality with as few as 1% being "chBU". I would wager there isn't one single well made Gem 1982-P or 1969 quarter in an original roll. Not one, anywhere. They simply do not exist in this format. I would further wager there are no nore than 3 or 4 well made Gem 1969 quarters in all the chBU rolls that have been assembled for sale, and similar number of '82-P's. These are hardly the only modern rarities and merely the ones with which I am most familiar.
Still hanging onto my obw cent rolls.
Yeah, you were one of the people I was thinking about when I said that many cherry picked modern rolls end up in circulation. I've saved so few of these but they are the only way you can get nice attractive coins that aren't obviously mint set in some cases and the sole source of most varieties.
I've always looked for nice attractive end coins and since they often appear in batches you can see a pretty good sample.
I still pick off an OBW roll from time to time.
I knew it would happen.