@Raufus said:
Looks nicer in the pics than I expected.
It is truly unbelievable , given the cost and the supposed quality control.
For a coin that carries an extraordinary premium from the US Mint, retailing at a staggering $10,050 for a half-ounce of gold, the machining is flat-out unacceptable.
I was hopeful of ultra-precise, German-engineered quality for this kind of money. Instead, the crude craftsmanship reminds me of the difference between a perfectly machined, modern US submarine propeller (famed for being the quietest in the world) and a poorly machined, inconsistent 1960s Soviet hull.
The Mint limited the mintage to 2,026 pieces to celebrate the Semiquincentennial, claiming these were hand-loaded and pressed with extreme precision. With a mintage that low and a price tag that high, is it really too much to expect a flawless PR70 right out of the box?
I know some will argue that a 70 grade should never be guaranteed, but we’ve all seen significantly better strike quality and higher 70-grade ratios on modern, limited-run commemoratives that cost a fraction of this price.
As it stands, the secondary market is going to penalize these heavily if the submission numbers come back plagued with 69s and body bags for surface damage.
@jskillz95 said:
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
They can be running all the time scanning to see if the add to cart button suddenly appears - they can scan every few seconds
This BOT attack was different - someone has a way (maybe via API) to circumvent even the UI.......then it becomes super fast.
Circumventing the UI has been the case for years. Bots haven't been clicking through each page of the checkout flow, if that's what you were thinking.
One way to defeat the bots would be for the mint to randomly change or alter the API for each release. All they have to do is slightly alter the parameter names or data order before each mint release. They could also implement a 2 factor system - get a code texted or emailed to you to place the order.
Thx, Guys.
Very much appreciate the info.
Really sucks for those who just try to buy via the intended process w o the requisite IT skills to get the really high demand stuff.
@engmtic said:
They simply overpriced the premium. At most, it should have been comparable to current V75 privy pricing, since that is probably the best benchmark.
That said, I genuinely hate this new U.S. Mint policy of moving into the flipper space. Part of that is selfish, of course if the Mint captures the resale premium itself, there is less opportunity for collectors and resellers to do so. I am not going to deny that.
But the more fundamental problem is that it dilutes the brand. There is a certain purity when a company produces a product, earns a fair profit, and then allows a secondary market to develop naturally if demand exceeds supply. When the original issuer deliberately creates the scarcity and then directly capitalizes on that same scarcity, the entire process starts to feel artificial and tainted. Imagine the NYK charging 50k a seat for the NBA Finals tickets, or Taylor Swift initially charging 5k a ticket? People would take to the streets. And somehow the US Gov't. is doing this???
I am not looking back at the old system through rose-colored glasses, but this new approach genuinely feels like a new low.
Hard to say they overpriced the premium when the silvers all sold out - and are selling for 4x to 8x the issue price - and the gold also sold out. Seems like they got it just about right on the gold, it struggled but eventually sold out, and they were too cheap on the silver.
To be fair, we all should have known something would end up out of line when they were offering 3 different things, at 3 very different price points, and the exact same hyper low mintage. They never tried that before.
Silver is clearly below market, although I still don't understand it. And, I still think the jury is out, because the bids seem to be mostly dealer bids. I get they are the experts and I am not, and I still don't get people willing to pay what dealers will be asking for them once they are slabbed.
As for the gold, TBD. Dealers weren't interested yesterday. Today they are. Maybe based on how silver is doing. Will still be interesting to see whether the gold can hold.
While everyone is mesmerized by 2,026, people are also forgetting that these are really 3 of the same thing. So it's 6,078 Liberty Bells. Not 2,026.
And 4,052 of them are even more VERY expensive than the others. I could also see people ignoring these when the Big Boys start pushing them. But I've been wrong so far, especially about the silver, so I'm not cashing out my 401(k) to bet on anything now.
Dealers weren't interested in paying a premium yesterday. They might be okay with buying them from the Mint.
I'm not a believer in pretty much anything the Mint makes in the long run. And, as I've been saying, I could envision both bull and bear scenarios here which is why I've made no call on the gold. I expected the silver to sell out, but the $5000 prices don't seem sustainable to me, but I've been wrong before.
But it is hard to call these a failure for the Mint. At this point, they've sold 5600 out of 6000 coins, despite the huge premium.
its short term success if success is measured by sellout. However, it's a damaging product to them long term. Silver will always retain a premium, Id guess it settles in the 1800-2500 range, but gold will most definitely plummet long term. Its impossible for me to believe they will have 2x demand than the 75 privy which i believe are at 10k
Most collectors at a minimum entertain selling their purchase at some point. Even if they dont, they definetly want the market to be there in case they do. When they see the 1 ounce going for 5-10k below what they paid...........thats a very unhappy customer. US Mint is based on repeat customers.. hence my assertion that this was a big miss for the mint.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Almost everything the Mint makes drops in value. Has that hurt them? Maybe. There are fewer buyers of proof eagles and annual sets. But that could be demographic changes as well.
If you buy a $20k gold coin that ends up being a $10k gold coin, you probably won't buy another. But we also don't know that there will ever be another that they are trying to sell or who the buyers are.
It's not an issue I had much interest in. I don't have much faith in its long term value. But I still think it's hard to argue that it was a failure of they sold even half of the mintage.
Did the FH privy hurt them?
Did the Omega gold cents hurt them?
I think it's important to separate our feelings from the assessment. They are all gimmicks. The gimmicks work. Hard to call it a failure even if we don't like it.
You all still think of these elite mint products with the same perspective as coin collectors or dealers. You need to think of these as luxury gift products like Gucci or Prada handbags where the price is irrelevant and the items are not bought as investments or because anyone expects them to hold value.
A. I did not say that. And the idea of "luxury good" is not a counterargument to anything I said.
B. Given the number of gold now available, it didn't work.
Sorry, I didn't mean to single out you, I was referring to the general conversation. I could have been clearer.
We can't say it didn't work. The whole sales process became corrupted and overrun with intermediaries. Luxury goods don't always have to sell out in one day either. While any business wants to sell-through as fast as possible, I'm sure the mint executives would be satisfied if they were all gone by end of year.
@engmtic said:
They simply overpriced the premium. At most, it should have been comparable to current V75 privy pricing, since that is probably the best benchmark.
That said, I genuinely hate this new U.S. Mint policy of moving into the flipper space. Part of that is selfish, of course if the Mint captures the resale premium itself, there is less opportunity for collectors and resellers to do so. I am not going to deny that.
But the more fundamental problem is that it dilutes the brand. There is a certain purity when a company produces a product, earns a fair profit, and then allows a secondary market to develop naturally if demand exceeds supply. When the original issuer deliberately creates the scarcity and then directly capitalizes on that same scarcity, the entire process starts to feel artificial and tainted. Imagine the NYK charging 50k a seat for the NBA Finals tickets, or Taylor Swift initially charging 5k a ticket? People would take to the streets. And somehow the US Gov't. is doing this???
I am not looking back at the old system through rose-colored glasses, but this new approach genuinely feels like a new low.
Hard to say they overpriced the premium when the silvers all sold out - and are selling for 4x to 8x the issue price - and the gold also sold out. Seems like they got it just about right on the gold, it struggled but eventually sold out, and they were too cheap on the silver.
To be fair, we all should have known something would end up out of line when they were offering 3 different things, at 3 very different price points, and the exact same hyper low mintage. They never tried that before.
Silver is clearly below market, although I still don't understand it. And, I still think the jury is out, because the bids seem to be mostly dealer bids. I get they are the experts and I am not, and I still don't get people willing to pay what dealers will be asking for them once they are slabbed.
As for the gold, TBD. Dealers weren't interested yesterday. Today they are. Maybe based on how silver is doing. Will still be interesting to see whether the gold can hold.
While everyone is mesmerized by 2,026, people are also forgetting that these are really 3 of the same thing. So it's 6,078 Liberty Bells. Not 2,026.
And 4,052 of them are even more VERY expensive than the others. I could also see people ignoring these when the Big Boys start pushing them. But I've been wrong so far, especially about the silver, so I'm not cashing out my 401(k) to bet on anything now.
Dealers weren't interested in paying a premium yesterday. They might be okay with buying them from the Mint.
I'm not a believer in pretty much anything the Mint makes in the long run. And, as I've been saying, I could envision both bull and bear scenarios here which is why I've made no call on the gold. I expected the silver to sell out, but the $5000 prices don't seem sustainable to me, but I've been wrong before.
But it is hard to call these a failure for the Mint. At this point, they've sold 5600 out of 6000 coins, despite the huge premium.
its short term success if success is measured by sellout. However, it's a damaging product to them long term. Silver will always retain a premium, Id guess it settles in the 1800-2500 range, but gold will most definitely plummet long term. Its impossible for me to believe they will have 2x demand than the 75 privy which i believe are at 10k
Most collectors at a minimum entertain selling their purchase at some point. Even if they dont, they definetly want the market to be there in case they do. When they see the 1 ounce going for 5-10k below what they paid...........thats a very unhappy customer. US Mint is based on repeat customers.. hence my assertion that this was a big miss for the mint.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Almost everything the Mint makes drops in value. Has that hurt them? Maybe. There are fewer buyers of proof eagles and annual sets. But that could be demographic changes as well.
If you buy a $20k gold coin that ends up being a $10k gold coin, you probably won't buy another. But we also don't know that there will ever be another that they are trying to sell or who the buyers are.
It's not an issue I had much interest in. I don't have much faith in its long term value. But I still think it's hard to argue that it was a failure of they sold even half of the mintage.
Did the FH privy hurt them?
Did the Omega gold cents hurt them?
I think it's important to separate our feelings from the assessment. They are all gimmicks. The gimmicks work. Hard to call it a failure even if we don't like it.
You all still think of these elite mint products with the same perspective as coin collectors or dealers. You need to think of these as luxury gift products like Gucci or Prada handbags where the price is irrelevant and the items are not bought as investments or because anyone expects them to hold value.
A. I did not say that. And the idea of "luxury good" is not a counterargument to anything I said.
B. Given the number of gold now available, it didn't work.
Sorry, I didn't mean to single out you, I was referring to the general conversation. I could have been clearer.
We can't say it didn't work. The whole sales process became corrupted and overrun with intermediaries. Luxury goods don't always have to sell out in one day either. While any business wants to sell-through as fast as possible, I'm sure the mint executives would be satisfied if they were all gone by end of year.
I do think the jury is still out on this, but it's not looking good.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Basically tells me I don't have a prayer for a truly competitive issue in the future.
What is UI?
Thanks for asking the questions I hesitate to ask.
Though I will ask one question again. Can someone please walk me through finding the ATS on the view page source? My old method no longer works. Thank you in advance.
Basically tells me I don't have a prayer for a truly competitive issue in the future.
What is UI?
Thanks for asking the questions I hesitate to ask.
Though I will ask one question again. Can someone please walk me through finding the ATS on the view page source? My old method no longer works. Thank you in advance.
Basically tells me I don't have a prayer for a truly competitive issue in the future.
What is UI?
Thanks for asking the questions I hesitate to ask.
Though I will ask one question again. Can someone please walk me through finding the ATS on the view page source? My old method no longer works. Thank you in advance.
Send it back to them. I agree with you, the quality is subpar.
Part of me wants to...the other part wants to hold on to it for the striking error aspect.
I'm not an error expert nor have any experience with errors - is what I have a possible segmented collar extrusion error or collar finning issue?
Looking forward to seeing what others come up with when they get their packages.
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
It being grabbed by someone else. In the old days, it would stay in your bag and just not complete the purchase, giving you a head start the next time they are available for sale. Now, they remove the item from your bag when it is unavailable for purchase. Even while you are in the process of completing a purchase.
Most online retail sites, including the Mint's, do not reserve an item for you once it is in your cart. This prevents people from tying up inventory if they are not going to complete a purchase, but causes chaos in situations like this. There might have been 100 people with a Silver in their bag, but only one available for sale. The first bot to complete the transaction got it, and 99 people saw what you saw.
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
As has been covered a bunch of times upthread, the way the bots work is to spam checkout to prevent any and all manual checkouts. You can add it to cart fine if you are fast enough, checking out is the problem.
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
As has been covered a bunch of times upthread, the way the bots work is to spam checkout to prevent any and all manual checkouts. You can add it to cart fine if you are fast enough, checking out is the problem.
How can they spam checkout (whatever that means) for manual buyers but not bots?
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
As has been covered a bunch of times upthread, the way the bots work is to spam checkout to prevent any and all manual checkouts. You can add it to cart fine if you are fast enough, checking out is the problem.
How can they spam checkout (whatever that means) for manual buyers but not bots?
AI description of bot being used to disrupt a sale. “Spam checkout Website Disruption: Some competitors or hackers use checkout spam as a form of a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack to deliberately crash a website or slow down its servers during busy sales events.
How can they spam checkout (whatever that means) for manual buyers but not bots?
Because they run enough simultaneous sessions to ensure that the likelihood a manual user gets through is infinitesimally small. You can tell because the site lags badly in the moments after 7:30 when you try to take any action.
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
As has been covered a bunch of times upthread, the way the bots work is to spam checkout to prevent any and all manual checkouts. You can add it to cart fine if you are fast enough, checking out is the problem.
How can they spam checkout (whatever that means) for manual buyers but not bots?
Technically, literally, they don't, But realistically, they do.
Kind of like sticking your hand in and out of a rotating jet engine, and having your hand still be attached to your arm when you pull it out. Theoretically possible, but you can't move fast enough for it to actually happen.
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
Similarly I've had one carted for 2 days however, upon reaching payment page, or maybe place order page, screen flashes and freezes with this showing up while item remains in cart for tomorrow.
@OKCC said:
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
Similarly I've had one carted for 2 days however, upon reaching payment page, or maybe place order page, screen flashes and freezes with this showing up while item remains in cart for tomorrow.
Most people aren't even getting that. It is being removed from the cart by the system. Until they solve what's going on with the bots, though, a lot of good having it pre-staged in the cart is going to do you.
At this point, given how strong the secondary market bids are for them, they really should consider conducting a random lottery for all customers with a purchase history to offer them the opportunity to buy one. Because this bot nonsense is not going to stop on its own, so putting them up for sale every day, and then purging the orders the next day, over and over again, is kind of pointless.
@HalfDime said:
Goodbye everyone, I am leaving for good. I got a warning so will not be posting here again. Thank you all for the enjoyment.
Please don't through in the towel my friend..... That means a few than less than favorable people win !
He's written that he's been on this site since 2006 yet his account became active in 2024, so if he leaves as this user name he'll likely be back soon enough under a different user name. Don't worry.
@HalfDime said:
Goodbye everyone, I am leaving for good. I got a warning so will not be posting here again. Thank you all for the enjoyment.
Please don't through in the towel my friend..... That means a few than less than favorable people win !
He's written that he's been on this site since 2006 yet his account became active in 2024, so if he leaves as this user name he'll likely be back soon enough under a different user name. Don't worry.
I have met him in a coin show in southern Maine , I don't believe he will return as an Alias
@OKCC said:
I never got the red button. Does that mean this one is done, no? For those of us on the west coast, the time is not very convenient.
My guess would be NOT done. Today was just a blip -- not like yesterday and day before where my screen locked up for a few seconds. So they might have only had a few today??? If they do cancel the majority of yesterday's Bot orders, I would expect something to appear in the next few days. But the problem is the Bots just do it all over again...
The USM has to take a position on automated means (BOTS) to place orders.
Change their policy to ban it. If found, they cancel your order and your customer account for good - one strike and youre out.
Clearly with technology these days the USM can record card numbers, addresses, names that used BOTS to purchase and keep a record to not allow them to purchase again.
@HalfDime said:
Goodbye everyone, I am leaving for good. I got a warning so will not be posting here again. Thank you all for the enjoyment.
Please don't through in the towel my friend..... That means a few than less than favorable people win !
He's written that he's been on this site since 2006 yet his account became active in 2024, so if he leaves as this user name he'll likely be back soon enough under a different user name. Don't worry.
I have met him in a coin show in southern Maine , I don't believe he will return as an Alias
Because meeting someone at a coin show gives you an insight into their soul? Even after they admit to having done the exact same thing in the past? Why?
Because no one, not here, not in the hobby at large, and not in any other walk in life, has ever turned out to be something or someone other than what they appeared to be? 🤣🤣🤣
@coiner said:
The USM has to take a position on automated means (BOTS) to place orders.
Change their policy to ban it. If found, they cancel your order and your customer account for good - one strike and youre out.
Clearly with technology these days the USM can record card numbers, addresses, names that used BOTS to purchase and keep a record to not allow them to purchase again.
Won't stop 'em. You can have dozens of randomly generated CC numbers off of one credit card if you want. Addresses, you don't understand the scale these bot operators are working at. They're renting out half the wall at your local UPS store if they need to. It's all they do for a living. They literally have all day to work on their automation and think of ways to beat the controls the system uses, and lots of resources to do so as well. They're deploying these bots for any kind of hot, limited release they can scalp and make a few bucks on.
Even 2FA can be beat with bots. Google Voice, Twilio, TextNow and some others all will give you a phone number you can receive texts with.
A lottery is the only true answer to the problem. Either that or go back to the old way and have a broken website for an hour while the product sells out... Honestly, I'd prefer that, I had much more success that way.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I was hopeful of ultra-precise, German-engineered quality for this kind of money. Instead, the crude craftsmanship reminds me of the difference between a perfectly machined, modern US submarine propeller (famed for being the quietest in the world) and a poorly machined, inconsistent 1960s Soviet hull.
Nicely phrased. Maybe buy some Bavarian gold instead.
@MsMorrisine said:
i didn't really get 9 silver and I'd like to thank the kind ones who believed in me.
it was just a check to see if I'd get called hypocrite given I'm so outspoken about bots and abuses of the friends and family networks.
it was also a check to see if anyone would PM me offering to buy them. No one did the PM.
to those that believed you're the kind ones.
Do you feel that those who didn’t believe you were unkind? Based on the considerable information that was available, unless they knew you personally, it seems like they had good reason to doubt you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@coiner said:
The USM has to take a position on automated means (BOTS) to place orders.
Change their policy to ban it. If found, they cancel your order and your customer account for good - one strike and youre out.
Clearly with technology these days the USM can record card numbers, addresses, names that used BOTS to purchase and keep a record to not allow them to purchase again.
Won't stop 'em. You can have dozens of randomly generated CC numbers off of one credit card if you want. Addresses, you don't understand the scale these bot operators are working at. They're renting out half the wall at your local UPS store if they need to. It's all they do for a living. They literally have all day to work on their automation and think of ways to beat the controls the system uses, and lots of resources to do so as well. They're deploying these bots for any kind of hot, limited release they can scalp and make a few bucks on.
Even 2FA can be beat with bots. Google Voice, Twilio, TextNow and some others all will give you a phone number you can receive texts with.
A lottery is the only true answer to the problem. Either that or go back to the old way and have a broken website for an hour while the product sells out... Honestly, I'd prefer that, I had much more success that way.
No, a lottery is not the only answer. As stated above, the mint could implement a changing API before each hot product release. It wouldn't be hard to do.
@coiner said:
The USM has to take a position on automated means (BOTS) to place orders.
Change their policy to ban it. If found, they cancel your order and your customer account for good - one strike and youre out.
Clearly with technology these days the USM can record card numbers, addresses, names that used BOTS to purchase and keep a record to not allow them to purchase again.
Won't stop 'em. You can have dozens of randomly generated CC numbers off of one credit card if you want. Addresses, you don't understand the scale these bot operators are working at. They're renting out half the wall at your local UPS store if they need to. It's all they do for a living. They literally have all day to work on their automation and think of ways to beat the controls the system uses, and lots of resources to do so as well. They're deploying these bots for any kind of hot, limited release they can scalp and make a few bucks on.
Even 2FA can be beat with bots. Google Voice, Twilio, TextNow and some others all will give you a phone number you can receive texts with.
A lottery is the only true answer to the problem. Either that or go back to the old way and have a broken website for an hour while the product sells out... Honestly, I'd prefer that, I had much more success that way.
No, a lottery is not the only answer. As stated above, the mint could implement a changing API before each hot product release. It wouldn't be hard to do.
They could also hold an auction. But people will hate almost any change.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MsMorrisine said:
i didn't really get 9 silver and I'd like to thank the kind ones who believed in me.
it was just a check to see if I'd get called hypocrite given I'm so outspoken about bots and abuses of the friends and family networks.
it was also a check to see if anyone would PM me offering to buy them. No one did the PM.
to those that believed you're the kind ones.
Do you feel that those who didn’t believe you were unkind? Based on the considerable information that was available, unless they knew you personally, it seems like they had good reason to doubt you.
Yeah, "Thanks for believing in me...I lied."
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Comments
Some Pics of the coin holder...and its plastic/rubberized material.
BST references available on request
For a coin that carries an extraordinary premium from the US Mint, retailing at a staggering $10,050 for a half-ounce of gold, the machining is flat-out unacceptable.
I was hopeful of ultra-precise, German-engineered quality for this kind of money. Instead, the crude craftsmanship reminds me of the difference between a perfectly machined, modern US submarine propeller (famed for being the quietest in the world) and a poorly machined, inconsistent 1960s Soviet hull.
The Mint limited the mintage to 2,026 pieces to celebrate the Semiquincentennial, claiming these were hand-loaded and pressed with extreme precision. With a mintage that low and a price tag that high, is it really too much to expect a flawless PR70 right out of the box?
I know some will argue that a 70 grade should never be guaranteed, but we’ve all seen significantly better strike quality and higher 70-grade ratios on modern, limited-run commemoratives that cost a fraction of this price.
As it stands, the secondary market is going to penalize these heavily if the submission numbers come back plagued with 69s and body bags for surface damage.
BST references available on request
I wish I spoke computer.
Thx for all the the info.
Basically tells me I don't have a prayer for a truly competitive issue in the future.
What is UI?
UI = User Interface
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
User Interface
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HoneyMarket
Send it back to them. I agree with you, the quality is subpar.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Make sure you get it attributed as the shank variety. Maybe you got 0.501 oz of gold?
One way to defeat the bots would be for the mint to randomly change or alter the API for each release. All they have to do is slightly alter the parameter names or data order before each mint release. They could also implement a 2 factor system - get a code texted or emailed to you to place the order.
Thx, Guys.
Very much appreciate the info.
Really sucks for those who just try to buy via the intended process w o the requisite IT skills to get the really high demand stuff.
Sorry, I didn't mean to single out you, I was referring to the general conversation. I could have been clearer.
We can't say it didn't work. The whole sales process became corrupted and overrun with intermediaries. Luxury goods don't always have to sell out in one day either. While any business wants to sell-through as fast as possible, I'm sure the mint executives would be satisfied if they were all gone by end of year.
I do think the jury is still out on this, but it's not looking good.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I find it hard to believe that people are buying the gold examples on Ebay, when both are available at the Mint at issue price.
Good idea on 2FA......
Thanks for asking the questions I hesitate to ask.
Though I will ask one question again. Can someone please walk me through finding the ATS on the view page source? My old method no longer works. Thank you in advance.
https://www.usmint.gov/on/demandware.store/Sites-USM-Site/default/Product-Variation?pid=MV
Just change the product ID
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thank you J. Very much appreciate it!
Data Point: The silver liberty bell continues to garner higher bid prices on 'CollectPURE'.
Congrats to those that lassoed one !
Part of me wants to...the other part wants to hold on to it for the striking error aspect.
I'm not an error expert nor have any experience with errors - is what I have a possible segmented collar extrusion error or collar finning issue?
Looking forward to seeing what others come up with when they get their packages.
BST references available on request
The last 2 mornings, on the Silver version, I got add to bag and then I hit the checkout button quickly. For a split second I got the last payment page okay, and then my page just flashed to my bag is empty. What would cause my bag to be quickly emptied at that point?
It being grabbed by someone else. In the old days, it would stay in your bag and just not complete the purchase, giving you a head start the next time they are available for sale. Now, they remove the item from your bag when it is unavailable for purchase. Even while you are in the process of completing a purchase.
Most online retail sites, including the Mint's, do not reserve an item for you once it is in your cart. This prevents people from tying up inventory if they are not going to complete a purchase, but causes chaos in situations like this. There might have been 100 people with a Silver in their bag, but only one available for sale. The first bot to complete the transaction got it, and 99 people saw what you saw.
As has been covered a bunch of times upthread, the way the bots work is to spam checkout to prevent any and all manual checkouts. You can add it to cart fine if you are fast enough, checking out is the problem.
How can they spam checkout (whatever that means) for manual buyers but not bots?
AI description of bot being used to disrupt a sale. “Spam checkout Website Disruption: Some competitors or hackers use checkout spam as a form of a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack to deliberately crash a website or slow down its servers during busy sales events.
how do we know this isn't a human psychology experiment?
Because they run enough simultaneous sessions to ensure that the likelihood a manual user gets through is infinitesimally small. You can tell because the site lags badly in the moments after 7:30 when you try to take any action.
We don't. Your post from yesterday proves that, doesn't it?
Technically, literally, they don't, But realistically, they do.
Kind of like sticking your hand in and out of a rotating jet engine, and having your hand still be attached to your arm when you pull it out. Theoretically possible, but you can't move fast enough for it to actually happen.
Similarly I've had one carted for 2 days however, upon reaching payment page, or maybe place order page, screen flashes and freezes with this showing up while item remains in cart for tomorrow.
Most people aren't even getting that. It is being removed from the cart by the system. Until they solve what's going on with the bots, though, a lot of good having it pre-staged in the cart is going to do you.
At this point, given how strong the secondary market bids are for them, they really should consider conducting a random lottery for all customers with a purchase history to offer them the opportunity to buy one. Because this bot nonsense is not going to stop on its own, so putting them up for sale every day, and then purging the orders the next day, over and over again, is kind of pointless.
Please don't through in the towel my friend..... That means a few than less than favorable people win !
Um...He got a warning for his behavior. Which devil do you think made him do it? And who, exactly, wins? No one was trying to drive him away.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
He's written that he's been on this site since 2006 yet his account became active in 2024, so if he leaves as this user name he'll likely be back soon enough under a different user name. Don't worry.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I have met him in a coin show in southern Maine , I don't believe he will return as an Alias
While prices have gone up, these are the lowest asks, not the highest bids.
The bids are also there, at the bottom in smaller type.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No silvers this morning; ATS=0
I saw ATS=0, but the red add-to-bag was there for a about a second. I tried to add it but then got not available
I must have missed the add to bag (red) between my refreshes
I never got the red button. Does that mean this one is done, no? For those of us on the west coast, the time is not very convenient.
My guess would be NOT done. Today was just a blip -- not like yesterday and day before where my screen locked up for a few seconds. So they might have only had a few today??? If they do cancel the majority of yesterday's Bot orders, I would expect something to appear in the next few days. But the problem is the Bots just do it all over again...
The USM has to take a position on automated means (BOTS) to place orders.
Change their policy to ban it. If found, they cancel your order and your customer account for good - one strike and youre out.
Clearly with technology these days the USM can record card numbers, addresses, names that used BOTS to purchase and keep a record to not allow them to purchase again.
This is clearly their chance to take a stand and change the process. Lots of ideas out there.
Because meeting someone at a coin show gives you an insight into their soul? Even after they admit to having done the exact same thing in the past? Why?
Because no one, not here, not in the hobby at large, and not in any other walk in life, has ever turned out to be something or someone other than what they appeared to be? 🤣🤣🤣
Won't stop 'em. You can have dozens of randomly generated CC numbers off of one credit card if you want. Addresses, you don't understand the scale these bot operators are working at. They're renting out half the wall at your local UPS store if they need to. It's all they do for a living. They literally have all day to work on their automation and think of ways to beat the controls the system uses, and lots of resources to do so as well. They're deploying these bots for any kind of hot, limited release they can scalp and make a few bucks on.
Even 2FA can be beat with bots. Google Voice, Twilio, TextNow and some others all will give you a phone number you can receive texts with.
A lottery is the only true answer to the problem. Either that or go back to the old way and have a broken website for an hour while the product sells out... Honestly, I'd prefer that, I had much more success that way.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Nicely phrased. Maybe buy some Bavarian gold instead.
i didn't really get 9 silver and I'd like to thank the kind ones who believed in me.
it was just a check to see if I'd get called hypocrite given I'm so outspoken about bots and abuses of the friends and family networks.
it was also a check to see if anyone would PM me offering to buy them. No one did the PM.
to those that believed you're the kind ones.
Do you feel that those who didn’t believe you were unkind? Based on the considerable information that was available, unless they knew you personally, it seems like they had good reason to doubt you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No, a lottery is not the only answer. As stated above, the mint could implement a changing API before each hot product release. It wouldn't be hard to do.
They could also hold an auction. But people will hate almost any change.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yeah, "Thanks for believing in me...I lied."
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."