Selling coins etiquette
Dave99B
Posts: 8,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is a bit of a gray area, but I thought I'd ask...
When a customer walks into a B&M (or to a table at a coin show), the dealer usually sets the initial price on a coin.
For example, the dealer may have a sticker on Coin A that says $175.00. If you want Coin A at that price, most likely it's yours. Of course, some buyers might ask 'What do you need for Coin A?', or 'Will you take $160 for Coin A?'. The dealer will respond, and the negotiations begin.
On the other hand, what is the proper etiquette when a customer walks in to SELL a coin. In this case, the customer is the seller, and the dealer in the buyer.
Poll Q: Do you thInk the customer (acting as a seller) should follow suit, and set the initial price, or do you believe the onus is still on the dealer to offer the initial price?
Comments
This can go either way and might depend on if the customer has any previous relationship buying or selling with that dealer.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I also agree that it depends upon how knowledgeable the seller is with respect to the material. If they inherited it then they might really have no clue, but if they are a long-time collector or dealer then they should know a number.
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If they are a long-time collector or dealer then more likely than not, they have a number.
edited to add... I mean- if they don't have a number, how can they respond to an offer?
Can go either way. Generally the customer will ask for the price. As far as somebody coming up to a table making an offer it may be taken, rejected, or subject to negotiation.
The dealer may have a price and cost code. His cost wb one code - the other sell code say CPG or cost plus. In this way he is in control.
His goal is to control any negotiation and get at least x profit on each sale. He is paying a table fee so is under the gun to make the table fee plus a decent profit from the show. A coin that is PQ he might quote at cost or bid plus 50 pct. Vs a more average coin say 30 pct. Markup. And might come down some if haggling. People who won’t pay the money well it’s adiose for them.
Having a cost and sell code this blocks other dealers from under cutting him and gives him leeway in pricing based on show / market condition .
I often have a price on the coins I am selling as I offer them to collectors at the shows. Not always, but usually.
One of the dealers I visit at every national show looks through my for sale box and usually picks at least a few out. If they have a price, he often pays that, or very close to it. Sometimes he has even offered me more than I was asking, and sometimes I have offered him a coin at less than he offers or is marked. If he's not quite there when I do have it priced but he's interested, he always asks if I can take a little less.
It's definitely a game of give and take, and I realize he needs to make a dollar too ... but overall, I appreciate dealing with him immensely. I buy from him too, and he often cuts me best prices ... so it works out all around.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Optimal negotiation strategy is always to get a price from the other party first. But that doesn't always apply. In my case I'll often throw out a price because I want a premium and I don't want to waste their time. They'll either pay it or they won't.
Either way works here as well. I see the customer start most times, just the same....
I’m thinking of this situation as the dealer is the only professional (likely most knowledgeable and only one in the business of making money off of coins) in this situation. If he’s not willing to make an offer unless the customer has a number, he won’t get inventory. If he’s can’t respond to someone coming in with their own number, same problem.
I feel like it’s on both parties to figure it out, thus no specific etiquette in this situation.
Sometimes the non-dealer is looking for an offer to buy from the dealer, and sometimes they’re making an offer to sell to the dealer. Both are Ok.
Several years back, I ran into this situation at a major show. It was the first time that I had a sizeable group of better coins to sell on behalf of a customer of mine. I understand that most if not all dealers have to have room to make a profit, but what I ran up against, was many dealers wanted me to make the offer as to what I wanted. Not being sure where to begin price wise, it was a very difficult learning process I was not used too, only having done small local type show's with folks I knew for years. Now, I do my research ahead of time to have an idea as to what things are worth, but still leave room for dealer that is buying. Not even that, 80% of the stuff, I just auction now, let the market dictate. some things do better auction, others direct sell. (that was kind of a learning curve over the years as well.
As far as my local shop, I usually make an offer based on my experience and market. To me, I should be able to price an item for a customer as I am the professional and they are seeking my experience and expertise on assessing value. Thats why they came to my establishment to start with. It's the way I have worked for years, however, in recent years I have seen other dealers "simply ask, what are you looking for?
I felt that they were doing that in hopes that they could get stuff much cheaper because customer did not know value.
I started doing this on some occasions for couple reasons, first and honest, if I can get something a bit better price of course I'd be better in it, but trying to be fair, I will also counter higher if need be when customer does not have a clue as to value, actually have had others in store tell me 'you should have paid him what he asked"
But also, sometimes I get the sense that a customer is going to be so far in the other direction, there is no since in negotiating as they have a high expectation of value, so asking what are you looking for will give me an idea if its worth pursuing to even price to buy it. this happens often.
just today, guy comes in with common $5 indian gold in xf, guy wants like 200 plus over melt, just simply say market's not there right now, thanks.
I believe that if the seller has a clue about the value of the coin and what they want for it, they should quote an asking price.
Many dealers - including those who are extremely fair - don’t like to make offers. That’s because a lot of sellers will shop the offer around and end up selling for a very small amount above the original offer. And the dealer who ends up buying for a small increment over the first offer, might have offered much less if he’d been the first one to make an offer. In other words, a dealer who makes an initial (very fair) offer often ends up pricing the coin for and helping another buyer who isn’t as fair.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This happens a LOT.
I once had someone with a $2000 collection offer to sell it to me for $20 over the price he had gotten across town. My original offer had been about $20 lower (all widgets). I refused to buy it because it wasn't fair to the other guy whom i know.
One other time, I had someone offer to sell it to me for the exact number of the guy across town because he didn't want to drive back across town.
People play all kinds of games. I would always rather be the last person to see it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There’s a dealer in Seattle who nips this kind of behavior in the bud. He’ll assess the value of the collection and make an offer. Should the customer say ‘Thanks, I’ll think about’ and start to leave he’ll bark something to the effect of ‘If you leave, this offer is voided. Don’t come back after shopping it around town’. He’s pretty gruff, and doesn’t mince words. I’ve seen him do this numerous times. The look on people’s faces…. 😳
That seems reasonable.
"If [Insert Respected Dealer Here] offered $1,000, I'm sure it's still a good deal if I offer $1,025."
Some people want to buy at wholesale like dealers do but when it comes to selling, they're just collectors and expect "the professional" to make an offer.
Well, there's that. But there's also the desire to haggle which you can't do without an offer on the table. I think many people feel that the first offer from a dealer becomes the floor while a first offer from the buyer becomes the ceiling. I had this issue with a DEALER on this forum last week. He reached out to me about something he had to sell. I asked what he wanted. He said he wanted me to offer first because he thought my offer might be higher than his. LOL
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Dave99B I would highly recommend this podcast episode, which covers your poll topic in great detail and nuance.
Here is the list of sub-topics by timestamp:
00:00 Introduction to the Coin Show Experience
02:55 Understanding Coin Show Etiquette
05:24 Dealer and Collector Interactions
08:04 The Importance of Respect in Coin Transactions
10:56 Navigating the Selling Process at Coin Shows
23:48 Understanding Pricing in Coin Collecting
26:27 The Emotional Aspect of Inherited Collections
27:55 The Importance of Market Knowledge
29:45 Creating a Comfortable Environment for Sellers
31:11 The Etiquette of Coin Shows
35:55 Navigating Price Negotiations
39:49 The Ethics of Price Agreements
45:41 Lessons from Real Transactions
47:47 The Importance of Kindness in Transactions
51:09 The Art of Negotiation in Coin Dealing
57:31 Understanding Pricing Strategies and Market Dynamics
01:01:52 The Future of Coin Grading and Market Trends
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
As to dealer offers,
In an LCS you should expect the dealer to make an offer. He may even consider a reasonable counter offer.
At a coin show of any size, dealers are more likely to expect you to know what you want for it.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
At shows - customers - they will ask the price of something they are interested in or examined. Then the dealer will quote a price.
Not surprisingly, that has nothing to do with the question that was asked:
“On the other hand, what is the proper etiquette when a customer walks in to SELL a coin. In this case, the customer is the seller, and the dealer in the buyer.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
People who won’t pay the money well it’s adiose for them.
It's "adiose" to them too!
Walk up sellers at a dealers table -
Assuming interested in the item the dealer will ask to take a look at it. Then the dealer examines it and may make an offer. The seller might offer the coins at a price in some instances. On these the dealer usually will make a counter offer as he has certain parameters on what will pay vs bid depending on currrent market conditions.
At shows the dealer has considerable fixed overhead (opex). Consequently good sales and buying material right paramount.
The dealer is there to act in a professional manner and make good procurement acquisitions and sales decisions.
One guy brought up to a dealer a couple of nice CACG and PCGS coins. The dealer examined them and researched CDN and CPG. He offered 10 pct below bid. After some polite haggling he bought them for 5 pct below bid.
Seller is gonna get low balled, either way, so he might as well start high, so as to give himself some room.
I like the third option instead:
Sell through GC or HA, instead of giving half of your money to the wholesalers.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I wish I could buy anything for half of auction prices.
People think dealer margins are much higher than they usually are.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Seems to me, if dealer margins are all that high, it would be a simple matter to start up your own coin business and undercut them by paying "fairer" prices for the coins you buy.
Right?
It always looks easier than it is. Of course, if you think you can buy at half off and just ship them to an auction house and double your money, it IS easy.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Unless it’s overpriced junk nobody I know of sells for half off.
Why would you need to do that? With that much of a margin all you need to do is put it on your website or take it to a show. I know the margins AND the market. I’m not talking about all dealers, but some of them do this.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Players like myself are going to look at what CDN bid is for the coin. If it’s marked up too high good luck.
At certain shows a wholesaler is there (before public comes in) and been able load up on nice slabbed material a little bit above CDN bid. Then I take those purchases (many are PQ, cherry picked For quality) markup accordingly (plan parameters).
Depending what they are selling, a dealer could offer 10% under Greysheet bid or more if the coins are not all there for grade or will be harder to sell. Raw coins are a different story. Should the dealer offer a lot less and based on a pessimistic grade prediction?
A lot of dealer just look up on ebay what coins are selling for and offer as well as sell based on those prices.