Is there a good way to maximize value selling a completed set of modern coins?
ProofCollection
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I know the answer will vary depending on the coin set so please pay attention to the specifics.
I know that as a general rule, if you wanted to sell a collection the highest resale value is generally obtained by selling each coin off individually. That makes a lot of sense for classic sets especially.
However, there are perhaps some modern sets, such as a 2006-2026 Uncirculated Gold Buffalo Set all in PCGS MS70 with the identical Buffalo First Strike label that would be a real challenge to assemble today. Don't get me wrong, it could be done, but it would probably take a few years and you'd have to get a few of the coins re-holdered to get the same labels.
A set like this has an intrinsic value of 22.85 oz of gold. A few of the dates and the fractional gold pieces do command a small premium. When individual coins are offered for sale at a retail price it seems that eventually someone will come along and pay a price close to full retail, but if auctioned off, they will probably not get much above melt value.
Your typical dealer is going to offer to buy the collection based on the melt value, and I can't blame them for that approach. Most lack the proper customer base and volume for these. But there has to be some dealers who don't.
Q: Are there any modern dealer specialists who could move a set like this and get a premium? And by premium, I mean a price on the order of the retail MS70 guide price for each coin. It would have to be a dealer that has the clientele that appreciate these coins already, want to own them, and don't want 'the thrill of the chase' that most of us love. Or customers that can be "talked into" and "sold" on how special a set like this is and that it's worth the investment. Any ideas?
Comments
As a non-dealer trying to sell those Buffalos, it would be hard to find someone that would pay retail for all. There could be people needing one or two examples to finish their own set. Maybe a coins on TV program like HSN could sell such a set but even then it's a stretch as I don't know if they sell just one of something.
Some dealers may get over melt for them, but I’d say all of them would only pay you melt or slightly less (due to gold’s volatility). Anything extra they might get will be their risk premium for doing the deal.
As you say, most collectors want the thrill of the hunt and won’t buy the complete set (even if they could afford it).
Most collectors don't buy "sets" intact, because most collectors already have at least some of the items in any set they're interested in pursuing and don;t like buying "duplicates" they then have to get rid of. "Collectors" generally don't suddenly switch from "I don't have any of them" to "I want to own the complete set, immediately". Even fewer collectors would have the spare cash to slam down US$100,000-plus to pay for such a set.
You know who might have both the will and the way to purchase such a set? Investors.
So you need to find yourself a dealer that caters for high-end, big-spender investor clientele.
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Would a place like HSN be interested in jusr one set of buffalo? Maybe they got clientele i dont know about
I have the complete set of proof gold buffaloes all signed by Mercanti who oversaw the program. The first 18 or so are PCGS, however, he now is only signing NGC labels so it’s kind of killed the run in my opinion. I too have wondered about selling the ‘set’ as a whole, but will probably end up leaving it to my two step kids that have a big interest in coin collecting….rather than take a major loss on it.
These guys mostly buy through jobbers and intermediaries. They pay strong prices but the market is not readily accessed.
With gold as high as it is now ... it's likely to be just more bullion to 99.9% of buyers. Finding that .1% who might pay a premium for a set may cost more than it would be worth.
Maybe a Heritage or Bowers auction could tap the expectedly small niche that would have an interest and the funds to buy such a set. Of course, it would be an auction and you may not be satisfied with the result.
I can't image this type of set will realize more as a whole opposed to selling them individually. The number of folks with the desire to have the whole set and to also have the means to write the check has to be very limited. It's not a situation where a collector would be willing to write a fat check to get a top pop which is included in a collection.
“Is there a good way to maximize value selling a completed set of modern coins?”
I doubt it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Get ahold of David Stuppler over at https://www.mintstategold.com/
He specializes in this exact material
Dancing girls.😀
Very good suggestion. I have reached out.
It would be hard to find a retail buyer for a set of Proof Buffalo gold coins. Many collectors who are interested in the set already have a few pieces and don’t want duplicates which would be hard to sell at their cost.
The “thrill of the hunt” concept has some legitimacy for many collectors, although when I decided to buy raw sets of Roosevelt Dimes and Franklin Half Dollars, I bought the sets intact. I find it cheaper to do that. I started negotiating from the GreySheet number and went from there. The trick is to avoid “sliders” (AU coins) salted in the set.
I don't disagree, but there is a low-numismatic-knowledge segment of society that has zero gold buffaloes and when shown a complete set and told what an incredible opportunity it is to own a set like that could be persuaded to invest in such a set.
For over $100,000? They'd have to be low information collectors and rich.
“I don't disagree, but there is a low-numismatic-knowledge segment of society that has zero gold buffaloes and when shown a complete set and told what an incredible opportunity it is to own a set like that could be persuaded to invest in such a set.”
No, you would have to “sell the idea” that this is an investment. That costs advertising money and a hard sales approach because as we are all learning, these coins are not an investment, but rather a hobby. If they are no longer fun, liquidate them for current market value and leave the hard sales work to others or safely save them for heirs.
If you’re looking to get more than fair market value for them, you’ll likely need to find a middle-man who will want to make a commission. And in order to make it worth his while, he might need to sell the set for too much money to someone who doesn’t know better.
How would you feel if he used a sales pitch of the type you posted above and sold them to a friend or family member of yours?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sorry if my comments were not as clear as I intended. I think a good analogy here is that I aspire for "gift shop" pricing. Gift shops manage to extract full retail value through location, presentation, and salesmanship. I think we all know gift shops are expensive places to buy anything but yet people still spend tons of money at gift shops and pay way more than they should for things they don't need. I don't see anything wrong with trying to target that market segment which exists no matter what I do. There are some dealers who do this well. Whether or not it's worth it for me after they get they're cut I'm not sure.
It still comes across as trying to get more than it's worth not what it's worth. IDK. Maybe it's just me.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No need to apologize. In that case, how would you feel if a friend or family member of yours bought your set at a gift shop at a “gift shop” price level?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
“I think a good analogy here is that I aspire for "gift shop" pricing.”
Gift shops do not sell gifts as “investments.” When one uses the word “investment” in an advertisement, AI says it “carries significant legal responsibilities.”
There is a possibility of questionable ethical salesmanship from those TV style or "investment" firms. They would end up convincing someone to pay 2x retail. I wouldn't even consider that a legitimate option.
Other than that, there is no other way to garner premium interest for a gold buffalo set.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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JRCS #1606
To be clear, I'm only looking for "full retail," not above retail.
I feel bad when people spend money on anything at gift shops. I wish my family would stop patronizing them but they can't help it. I can't help it if people aren't savvy consumers. It's not a supply problem (there is infinite supply of gift shop merchandise), it's a demand problem. Adding to the supply by 1 coin set will not change anything. A gift shop patron and their money will be separated no matter what I do.
While adding 1 set to the supply wouldn’t change anything, I wouldn’t want to be the one conceiving of and participating in a transaction that led to that result.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
“I feel bad when people spend money on anything at gift shops”
Brick and mortar coin shops are gift shops and they have retail pricing. They have a lot of overhead. I used to hope to get full retail for PCGS/NGC graded numismatic gold and silver in EBAY auctions, but as one advertisement says “nobody pays retail anymore, why should you ?”
I believe it would be tough sledding. Even one gold buffalo is a hefty investment. I like the gold buffalos and feel they are a must have for many. But a complete set?
Perhaps some really rich player, investor who would like to show it off to friends, family for entertainment. Certainly a super gold investment. How would a seller price it - somewhere between CDN bid and CPG? Are just full CDN CPG? Where is that interested buyer that has the money and will pay that? If gold tanks, game over. I would have a low confidence level one could even find a retail buyer.
Not “Certainly a super gold investment”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
LCR Coin has a SKU for the same set, graded by a different company.
https://lcrcoin.com/products/2006-2025-american-gold-buffalo-full-date-run-set-ngc-pf70?variant=44008189132934
There "About" page says:
"Whether you are buying or selling rare coins, certified coins, or precious metals, our team is available to answer questions and provide personalized assistance.
If you need assistance or have questions, contact us at Info@LCRCoin.com or 800.830.5578. Our team is here to help."
https://lcrcoin.com/pages/about
Sounds like melt value.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
How much time and money does one suppose coin dealers and shops spend on rent/websites/advertising, in an effort to get full retail prices for their coins? Absent that effort, how easy might it be to get comparable prices?
Except for specialists, most LCSs don't try to get "retail" on 90+% of the $ volume they buy.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Sorry about that- I didn't mean on the 90+% of stuff they end up wholesaling. Anyway, if dealers have trouble getting "retail" for what they do sell over the counter, how much harder will it be for someone who isn't known and doesn't have a market presence?
Sorry. I just meant that the wholesaling indicates the cost of pursuing the retail price. 90% now beats 100% 6 months from now, almost every time.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ProofCollection
If it were me I'd send them off to Great Collections.
You can space them out over a few weeks, list them for the price you want to receive.
The only fee is the listing fee, so you can include that fee in the starting price, and since there are no sellers fee's on items over $1001 you won't have a down side.
If the coin(s) don't sell they relist them for 5 auctions
I really don't see any advantage in trying to sell the complete set
JMO
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
Right. But it sounds like you are not in a position to do the work to find the "full retail" client. So you want to sell to a reseller who will pay you "full retail" and then turn around and screw someone else.
Which won't be your problem, because they were going to get screwed anyway, and you got what you wanted out of the deal. Good luck with this because, in my experience, these resellers make it on both ends, and don't pay "full retail" even when they sell at a premium to retail. Because no one other than retail actually pays "full retail" in any business.
I have avoided posting to this thread but it keeps popping to the top so I will post.
It appears to me you want the last dollar on the table without actually stating you want the last dollar on the table and you are willing to use most any means to get that dollar as long as someone else uses those means to get that dollar and get it to you. They're your coins and you have every right to want the last dollar on the table, but let's not pretend this is something it isn't.
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Great question I think there’s a buyer out there for almost anything hard part is finding that buyer. My free advice if you don’t need the money don’t sell if you need the money find a dealer that specializes in gold. They may have clients who are looking for that set. I doubt you will get a high retail premium for it though after commissions. If you can live with that, take the proceeds and invest it in something else hopefully you’ve had a lot of time to enjoy those coins. They are beautiful.
There is a 10% buyers fee. So, there is significant downside of they don't sell for 10% more than melt.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I can recommend where to get rid of them at melt but more than that seems unlikely. Everyone you sell to is taking on a large financial risk. It could loose 1/3 of it's value overnight and no one wants to be stuck holding the bag so to speak.
Personally, I also don't understand the beating around the bush... Your initial post, to me sounds like a hypothetical question... I get that classics are better off being sold individually but what about a massive gold set like the gold indians???
Followed by "Or customers that can be "talked into" and "sold" on how special a set like this is and that it's worth the investment."
Very shady IMHO.
“ Is there a good way to maximize value selling a completed set of modern coins?”
Yes, unless someone will buy the set without discounting it for the required large cash outlay, sell the coins individually at fair market value.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Although, due to movements in the price of gold, there’s a large financial risk in buying such a set, I don’t see how anywhere close to a “1/3 of it's value overnight” loss is a realistic concern.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, as stated in the OP, getting someone to pay melt is easy. Anyone will pay that.
There is no risk to losing 1/3 overnight to a shop that knows how to maintain a neutral position by hedging with derivatives. That same shop could also make 50% on a theoretical rise in the price of gold.
I'm willing to consign and remove that risk, so there's that too.
Nothing shady about presentation and salesmanship. The set is difficult to assemble. The set is special. There are also people who want to own this set and people who don't have the time or energy to piece together a set a coin at a time. Offering this set to those people at a price they agree with is not shady.
Yes, maximizing value means getting the last dollar, it's quite explicit in the title. I know that I don't have the ability to get what I am seeking unless it can be realized through self-sell options like ebay or craigslist or BST. There are dealers with the customer base for this set. There are dealers who are able to sell coins for top dollar consistently. There are dealers who are able to represent the set to it's full potential. That's who I'm trying to find. I get that my LCS isn't able to re-sell the set for more than a few points over melt. They don't have the right customer base. I would not accuse them of trying to rip me off by offering back of melt for PCGS MS70s some of which have low populations and are very difficult to find. Likewise it shouldn't be implied that I am trying to rip anyone else off by pointing out that the set is has value beyond melt because it does.
To be fair, I don't think anyone knows what "full retail" price of a set like this is. There's no market data to go by other than individual pricing and even then a lot of that data is stale. But that doesn't mean there isn't demand for full sets and buyers willing to pay premiums to acquire them all in one shot. Assembling a set like this is time and work and there is risk that by the time a set is completed the price of gold will have doubled making it even more expensive to acquire. The right buyer would value the time and work savings.
Maybe there's someone assembling a James Fraser exhibit for a museum and they think they need a full set for an exhibit that needs to be complete by the end of the month. Someone could be of the mind set that these are about to become really popular and trying to corner the market. The people on Pawn Stars buy and resale stuff I can't believe people want at prices that I can't conceive on almost every episode. Just because the people in this forum (varying degrees of savvy, sophisticated collectors) do not value a set of modern Unc gold buffaloes as anything special or difficult to assemble does not mean there isn't a fair but premium price someone who is not on this forum is willing to pay and doesn't mean that price isn't unfair or even unethical.
I think I got the answer I needed above. Stuppler really is probably the real leader for selling these. I have reached out and we'll see what happens.