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1923 Standing Liberty question.
JPriami
Posts: 9 ✭
Is this considered a full head standing liberty? I didnt know that was a thing till recently & looked at the one I have in my collection. I think I see the lines there for it, i can make out the shape of 3 leaves & a bit more. Or maybe Im just hopeful & thinking too hard & thats normal. Whats the experts opinion? 
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Not an expert, but looks FH to me.
It looks like a liner in that image. Close, but ... ?
It's not a slam-dunk FH.
I have some like that that did not get FH, and I always think about sending them in for the designation, but then I never do.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Perhaps too strict, yet no earhole, no full head IMHO.
(I haven't purchased a Standing Liberty quarter in quite a long time, so maybe I am not qualified to offer an opinion.)
Welcome to the forums.
I appreciate the feedback & welcome. Thank you kindly. Theres a video showing more details here on a Facebook coin group. Its a public group so this video should show up. https://facebook.com/share/v/18Xri7TCoa/
Welcome to the forum.
A good still shot would show the head detail much better than the video does.
I can’t tell whether the coin is FH from the picture in your original post, either. Can you post additional sharp pictures of Liberty’s head area and the entire obverse and reverse?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If not FH then it's pretty dang close
Collector, occasional seller
Appears full head to me. Nice coin. Would like to see full pic of coin.
If it's not FH, it's pretty close. But as others have stated, better pictures would be helpful. If that's not possible, you can compare to other 1923 FHs. Great collections has many examples to compare.
That said, I've seen SLQ designated as FH, that I personally don't agree with and vise-versa.
For type two FH you look for four things:
Number three is a bit weak, but I can still see all four of these criteria. I would call this a full head. Let me put it this way. I have seen other Coins designated as such that weren’t any better. And some worse…..
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
If you have to wonder about it the answer is no.
If offered to me as a full head I would reject it.
That’s not necessarily so. Most of us have seen large quantities of coins that we wondered about, but for which the answer was “yes”. And that applies both to coins which hadn’t been graded yet and others that were already graded.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m unfamiliar with and don’t know what you mean by #2 “Facial Features”.
Here’s what the PCGS site says about the requirements for FH Standing Liberty Quarters:
“Type I Standing Liberty Quarters earn the FH designation when there is a clear and distinct separation between Miss Liberty’s hair cords and her cap.
Type II Standing Liberty Quarters receive the Full Head designation when the helmet exhibits three complete and distinct leaves, a complete outline on the bottom of the helmet, and a clear ear hole on Miss Liberty’s head.”
Link https://www.pcgs.com/news/what-does-full-head-mean-on-standing-liberty-quarters
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Looks like a FH to me based upon the picture provided.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Maybe not an official TPGS requirement, but more of a personal one, as I don’t like a mushy face..and I have seen plenty of them.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I snapped some photos just now. Its hard to get good pics. Im still figuring out good ways to take them.
This one may show ear hole?
I see the three leaves, though a little incomplete, the hair and the ear hole. This one is very close to being full head and has a good shot at getting the designation if sent in.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I don't know whether it is "full head" or not
But it is a spectacular illustration of how silly it is for the grading companies to pretend that the "head" is binary--either full head or not full head--when it is, obviously, a continuum.
If this coin is not full head, it's close enough that it should not be significantly "penalized" in value compared to one that is "just barely" full head. Or even compared to one that is obviously full head.
As is your choice, you’re looking at the glass as half empty instead of half full. Sure, you can say that the non-FH examples are being penalized, value-wise. But it’s just as fair to say that the FH coins are being rewarded.
Regarding the continuum, often, despite the absence of the FH designation, those pieces that almost make it, sell for premiums of varying amounts. And that’s the way it should be.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
We disagree on this. Who knew? It shouldn't make any significant difference in price when it literally takes a microscope to tell wheither it's "full head" or not.
Who knew?, indeed.😉
I understand that you don’t think there should be a significant price disparity in cases where it can literally take a microscope to see minor differences (such as FH or, as previously discussed, cleaning, etc.) And a lot of people agree with you. I think I might even agree with you. 🫢 But many buyers are willing to pay large premiums based upon minor differences in quality and/or appearance. And I need not see things the way they do in order to understand it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fair enough. My "beef," such as it is, is that I believe that, had the grading companies not come up with "FH" and the like, people would do the sensible thing and pay slightly more for slightly better coins (and VERY little more when it takes a microscope to tell the difference). But we're all hostage to the ways that grading companies skew the market, aren't we (assuming we care about resale value of what we pay big bucks to acquire--which I most certainly do).
I don’t recall for certain, but think that designations such a FH, FB and FBL were already in use prior to the arrival of PCGS and NGC. But even if they were, I agree that the major TPG’s skew the market. The registries do the same on a much broader and more significant basis.
Whether someone will end up among the hostages is largely up to each individual and where they draw the line in their collecting pursuits. I often suggest to collectors that they not be slaves to their collecting and to collect what they want to, and how they want to.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. I avoid the concave heads that so many SLQs have, but I'm not interested in paying the (to me) exhorbitant surcharge for things like "FH," "FBL," "full steps" and full split bands.
Why would purchasing have anything to do with one's qualifications for proferring an opinion?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
A little borderline but I’d call it FH. Send it in and find out! 23-P in FH isn’t THAT tough to find so they’d probably not be as hard on it.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Back in the day when a good photo wasn’t available, and before TPG’s, the FH designation meant a lot. Unlike FS, FSB, FBL, the head on the SLQ is critical to the design and overall appearance. I don’t recall paying any attention to the other designations, thought they were more marketing fluff. Still do for that matter.
For me, a well struck shield with all the rivets visible is nearly as aesthetically important. If the FH has that, and possibly all ten toes visible...............and a Bean..............the big premium is worth it (for me). But a borderline "FH" with nothing else... not worth the premium.
From Stacks Bowers:
Herman MacNeil’s full figure of Liberty striding forward with a shield and olive branch is an iconic design, and one of the most beautiful and admired seen on U.S. coinage. Unfortunately, the fine details of Liberty’s head were prone to weakness, and sometimes appear flat or even “dished” in some cases. Because this aspect of the design added a great deal of beauty to the coin, it was recognized quickly by collectors, and by the early 1950s, small premiums were being paid by collectors for Standing Liberty Quarters with fully-struck head details.
When the two major grading services opened, “FH” or Full Head were added to the grade of Standing Liberty Quarters that met the qualifications.
https://stacksbowers.com/coin-resource-center/standing-liberty-quarter/standing-liberty-quarter-type-1-no-stars-on-reverse/
From ChatGPT:
Based on everything I found, I'd estimate:
Before about 1950: collectors recognized strong strikes but probably described them as "well struck," "sharp head," or "fully struck head."
Circa 1950–1955: the phrase "Full Head" likely begins appearing in dealer fixed-price lists and auction catalogs.
By the early 1960s: "Full Head" is established specialist jargon.
1986 onward: PCGS formalizes FH as an official designation, and later NGC adopts its own FH criteria.
Too much attention paid to such a small area of a beautifully designed coin. What does the rest of it look like??
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I had a really super full head 1917 SLQ decades ago. Anacs 64. A super PQ coin excellent eye appeal wellstruck Gem BU. Detail on that coin was superior to any of that issue seen. Sold it to a guy who’s wife bought it for him (his bd) when both walked up to my table.