Does Collectors Universe have a slab that can fit a bell like this? Can you post a photo? I'm genuinely curious.
For example, I've seen kilo slab coins but not from CU yet.
[slabbing toys may have been a joke, but I'm curious if numismatic TPGs actually do this, like for kilo coins or bricks of currency]
Can't tell you how common it is, when it started, or if they are still doing it, but here is an example of a PCGS slabbed 1.0 kilo coin. Note - I have NO association with this listing.
@Zoins said:
Why not just have a bell that you can ring
Hard to put it in your pocket
Even more challenging, hard to slab!
Actually, it's not. They slab toys all the time.
Yes, but not PCGS!
This would be a coin not a toy!
They can use the same case that is used with toys. It's just a bigger version of a slab. Collectors universe includes WATA and PSA. And PCGS banknotes have slabbed bricks of currency.
[Although I know this was only a joke, however...]
Does Collectors Universe have a slab that can fit a bell like this? Can you post a photo? I'm genuinely curious.
For example, I've seen kilo slab coins but not from CU yet.
[slabbing toys may have been a joke, but I'm curious if numismatic TPGs actually do this, like for kilo coins or bricks of currency]
Coin TPGs don't slab coins, but AFA and CGA do it for toys. They are just bigger plastic boxes. Here's a screenshot of a couple:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
These are selling for way over issue price on Ebay.
Interesting. Both the silver and gold examples have the same cert. number - which doesn't show as a valid number on the PCGS Verify site. Also interesting - the silver medal is labeled as "Liberty Bell One Half Ounce Coin (it's a medal, not a coin); and the gold example is labeled simply as "Liberty Bell Gold Medal" when it's a $125 denominated coin.
@HalfDime said:
These are selling for way over issue price on Ebay.
Interesting. Both the silver and gold examples have the same cert. number - which doesn't show as a valid number on the PCGS Verify site. Also interesting - the silver medal is labeled as "Liberty Bell One Half Ounce Coin (it's a medal, not a coin); and the gold example is labeled simply as "Liberty Bell Gold Medal" when it's a $125 denominated coin.
@HalfDime said:
These are selling for way over issue price on Ebay.
Interesting. Both the silver and gold examples have the same cert. number - which doesn't show as a valid number on the PCGS Verify site. Also interesting - the silver medal is labeled as "Liberty Bell One Half Ounce Coin (it's a medal, not a coin); and the gold example is labeled simply as "Liberty Bell Gold Medal" when it's a $125 denominated coin.
Good catch bro !
They are presale. They aren't photos of actual coins. It's just a mock up.
You might also notice that the coin type ID number is 0000000.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
I will indeed be shocked if you turn out to be right about this, Same way I'll be shocked if your 10K Dan Carr HSN treasures end up holding their value.
Then have paramedics standing by on the first one.
The bells should have been a 3 ounce silver, 2.5 ounce gold and 1.25 ounce gold -- the gold sort of being only about double spot. But hey, what do I know -- I would have made the cents out of bronze and the Jeffersons on the silver proof set 35% wartime silver content.
@HalfDime said:
These are selling for way over issue price on Ebay.
Interesting. Both the silver and gold examples have the same cert. number - which doesn't show as a valid number on the PCGS Verify site. Also interesting - the silver medal is labeled as "Liberty Bell One Half Ounce Coin (it's a medal, not a coin); and the gold example is labeled simply as "Liberty Bell Gold Medal" when it's a $125 denominated coin.
Good catch bro !
They are presale. They aren't photos of actual coins. It's just a mock up.
You might also notice that the coin type ID number is 0000000.
Yeah, there are many factors that tell you there's nothing real about the photos. Most misleading, I think, is the size of the examples in the images. The actual coins will be just 1.024 inches high and 0.888 inches across. If you ordered one presale based on these images, you'll probably be expecting something substantially larger than what you will receive. Sorta like the burgers you see in all the fast-food TV ads compared to what they hand you when you order one.
@HalfDime said:
These are selling for way over issue price on Ebay.
NJ says those listings are all fake.
They are. Because no one has anything to sell yet, and no one knows whether or not they will be getting anything to sell.
Those sales will be fulfilled if the seller can do so at a profit. Otherwise, not. Right now, they are nothing more than free options being granted by the buyer to the seller.
And, no one knows anything right now, other than would be sellers are being very aggressive with the silvers, less so with the gold. Which means nothing other than the Mint really should have considered doing something to align mintages with sales prices. The thing being sold at $750 shouldn't be offered in the same quantity as the thing being sold for $20K.
Sellers seem convinced 2,026 of anything at $750 will be a winner. TBD. There doesn't seem to be as much excitement at $10K and $20K.
Right now, people are listing silvers at $3-5K. You posted a few days ago that people were buying at $1300. You still think anyone actually pre-bought at $1300, if actual in hand sales end up starting at $3K?
As I said, nothing but free options. If no one wants them, sure, early suckers locked in at $1300. Otherwise, they get nothing. TBD.
This is why presales are totally meaningless. When sellers post listings with Mint order confirmation numbers, we'll see a market. Right now, it's all just noise.
@NJCoin said:
And, no one knows anything right now, other than would be sellers are being very aggressive with the silvers, less so with the gold. Which means nothing other than the Mint really should have considered doing something to align mintages with sales prices. The thing being sold at $750 shouldn't be offered in the same quantity as the thing being sold for $20K.
Are you backpeddling already on these, they haven't even been released yet.
We knew the mintages when they were first posted, and they only did 2026 silver medals.
They should have only done 1776 gold 1 ounce to take the price up.
They coulda made them much bigger too.
I doubt anyone will be able to waltz onto the mint website and buy all three unless they have a backdoor to the mint website or just get lucky in the queue.
@NJCoin said:
And, no one knows anything right now, other than would be sellers are being very aggressive with the silvers, less so with the gold. Which means nothing other than the Mint really should have considered doing something to align mintages with sales prices. The thing being sold at $750 shouldn't be offered in the same quantity as the thing being sold for $20K.
Are you backpeddling already on these, they haven't even been released yet.
We knew the mintages when they were first posted, and they only did 2026 silver medals.
They should have only done 1776 gold 1 ounce to take the price up.
They coulda made them much bigger too.
I doubt anyone will be able to waltz onto the mint website and buy all three unless they have a backdoor to the mint website or just get lucky in the queue.
Depends on how many they let in at once on the queue. If they only let in 100 people at a time, then it will be easy to get all three. If they let in 2000 at a time, it will be hard.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
And, no one knows anything right now, other than would be sellers are being very aggressive with the silvers, less so with the gold. Which means nothing other than the Mint really should have considered doing something to align mintages with sales prices. The thing being sold at $750 shouldn't be offered in the same quantity as the thing being sold for $20K.
Are you backpeddling already on these, they haven't even been released yet.
We knew the mintages when they were first posted, and they only did 2026 silver medals.
They should have only done 1776 gold 1 ounce to take the price up.
They coulda made them much bigger too.
I doubt anyone will be able to waltz onto the mint website and buy all three unless they have a backdoor to the mint website or just get lucky in the queue.
Not backpedaling. Just observing.
Nothing means anything until in hand sales occur. Just like I said.
I'll backpedal when buy offers come in from the usual suspects. I always allowed for the possibility I could be wrong, and always said I'd own up to it if that was the case. No need to jump the gun just yet.
I'm just observing that asking prices for the silver are much more aggressively marked up than for the gold, and I'm speculating it's because the mintage is the same as for much higher priced product. Which is not usually the case.
None of this means there will be a market for a half ounce of silver at $5,000, while there is no market for a half ounce of gold at $10,000. Just means people are testing the water. Seeing if they can lure some poor dopes into granting them free options.
As I said, you can knock yourself out. I'm not interested in the silver at $750, let alone $1,300 or $5,000.
@NJCoin said:
And, no one knows anything right now, other than would be sellers are being very aggressive with the silvers, less so with the gold. Which means nothing other than the Mint really should have considered doing something to align mintages with sales prices. The thing being sold at $750 shouldn't be offered in the same quantity as the thing being sold for $20K.
Are you backpeddling already on these, they haven't even been released yet.
We knew the mintages when they were first posted, and they only did 2026 silver medals.
They should have only done 1776 gold 1 ounce to take the price up.
They coulda made them much bigger too.
I doubt anyone will be able to waltz onto the mint website and buy all three unless they have a backdoor to the mint website or just get lucky in the queue.
Depends on how many they let in at once on the queue. If they only let in 100 people at a time, then it will be easy to get all three. If they let in 2000 at a time, it will be hard.
Actually, no. If the eBay action now is an indication, people will be chasing the silver looking for a score.
The $20K gold coin will not be a consolation prize. Not sure who the silver buyers are supposed to be at $3-5K, but I don't see anyone, maybe other than @HalfDime, actually wanting the silver at $750 as a cherished keepsake of this historic 250th birthday.
So, if @HalfDime turns out to be right, people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
Maybe they'll be right, maybe not. But $10-20K is a lot more to risk for something with relatively low intrinsic value if you don't actually want to keep it, as I don't imagine many buyers will.
If my reasoning is correct, it won't matter how many people they let into the website, because the only page seeing any action will be the one with the silver medal on it. If @HalfDime is right, past history suggests more than 2K will be on the site at launch, and the silver will be gone in as little time as it takes to process 2K orders. Less what they give to ABPP.
The gold, especially the one ounce gold, will likely be available for quite some time at $20K, because there is not a proven secondary market for anything like this at a premium high enough for anyone to justify risking $20K. So the only buyers will be those who actually want it. And, I think they will be far and few between.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Totally agree. The thing is, this is totally unique, so there is nothing to look to for guidance. People look at low mintage ASEs, or the FH privy medals, and see a slam dunk here. They might be right, or they might end up stuck with a $750 half ounce of silver in the shape of the beloved Liberty Bell. TBD.
But the fact that most people here have no actual interest in adding it to their collection tells me that there is a risk no one else will have an actual interest, either at $750, or at whatever premium they hope to get. It looks like it just might end up being a hot potato, rather than the greatest acquisition from the Mint since the V75 AGE.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
Can't say no to what exactly? What series will these be completing, other than "everything the Mint has ever produced"?
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
Can't say no to what exactly? What series will these be completing, other than "everything the Mint has ever produced"?
All Mint products. All SemiQ products. Silver products. Silver or gold commems. There are numerous sets these could be considered part of.
But @WCC mentioned NCLT threads, in general. My response was intended to be general.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Totally agree. The thing is, this is totally unique, so there is nothing to look to for guidance. People look at low mintage ASEs, or the FH privy medals, and see a slam dunk here. They might be right, or they might end up stuck with a $750 half ounce of silver in the shape of the beloved Liberty Bell. TBD.
But the fact that most people here have no actual interest in adding it to their collection tells me that there is a risk no one else will have an actual interest, either at $750, or at whatever premium they hope to get. It looks like it just might end up being a hot potato, rather than the greatest acquisition from the Mint since the V75 AGE.
The thing about the V75 AGE of course is that it was reasonably priced. For those lucky enough to get one, they got it at a reasonable price. It is also part of a very popular series. It looks like we'll never have a similar opportunity again to get something like that at a reasonable price without the Mint marking it up astronomically or selling at auction.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
Agreed. And even they were actually coins. These are curiosities or tchotchkes. More similar to Hot Wheels or Barbies made by PAMP than any actual US coin.
While the Hot Wheels or Barbies are made under the auspices of Solomon Islands, rather than the United States of America, they are made with similar mintages, aimed at the exact same market (American coin and tchotchke collectors), are issued at a tiny fraction of the price the Mint is seeking (typically around 2-3x spot), and don't go for huge premiums in the secondary market.
So, it is obvious what the eBay sellers hope to get. Remains to be seen who bites, thinking these are FH privy medals 2.0, and who thinks they are too gimmicky to be interesting at the price, even with the ultra low mintage.
As I have said before, I honestly don't think I'd be interested at any price, because coins that are not round just don't interest me. But, if I was interested, it would be at a reasonable premium to production cost. No more than $100 for the silver medal, no matter how high or low the mintage was.
I'm just not impressed by the crazy low artificial mintage, and have no interest in chasing such things at such premiums. I have better places to park my money, and seriously doubt anything made to be an instant rarity will hold its value over time.
Lottery tickets like the FH privy medals are one thing. Things like this, made to sell at ginormous premiums at launch, are something else entirely. YMMV.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
I don't believe there are remotely (as not within a "moonshot") 1000 actual hobbyist collectors for First Spouse. We're talking about a series now costing somewhat less than $100K for proofs and "business strikes" each.
I doubt there are even 100, with everyone else seemingly buying it due to the mintage or as a low premium substitute to bullion hoping the premium goes up when anyone but them actually decides they want it as a collectible because it's "rare". That's what I see for practically all $5 gold commemoratives too, even those with the lowest mintage.
With the silver medal, it's a one-off, but still completely uncompetitive for what it actually is as a collectible at $750.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
I don't believe there are remotely (as not within a "moonshot") 1000 actual hobbyist collectors for First Spouse. We're talking about a series now costing somewhat less than $100K for proofs and "business strikes" each.
I doubt there are even 100, with everyone else seemingly buying it due to the mintage or as a low premium substitute to bullion hoping the premium goes up when anyone but them actually decides they want it as a collectible because it's "rare". That's what I see for practically all $5 gold commemoratives too, even those with the lowest mintage.
With the silver medal, it's a one-off, but still completely uncompetitive for what it actually is as a collectible at $750.
I said "or less"
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
Agreed. And even they were actually coins. These are curiosities or tchotchkes. More similar to Hot Wheels or Barbies made by PAMP than any actual US coin.
While the Hot Wheels or Barbies are made under the auspices of Solomon Islands, rather than the United States of America, they are made with similar mintages, aimed at the exact same market (American coin and tchotchke collectors), are issued at a tiny fraction of the price the Mint is seeking (typically around 2-3x spot), and don't go for huge premiums in the secondary market.
So, it is obvious what the eBay sellers hope to get. Remains to be seen who bites, thinking these are FH privy medals 2.0, and who thinks they are too gimmicky to be interesting at the price, even with the ultra low mintage.
As I have said before, I honestly don't think I'd be interested at any price, because coins that are not round just don't interest me. But, if I was interested, it would be at a reasonable premium to production cost. No more than $100 for the silver medal, no matter how high or low the mintage was.
I'm just not impressed by the crazy low artificial mintage, and have no interest in chasing such things at such premiums. I have better places to park my money, and seriously doubt anything made to be an instant rarity will hold its value over time.
Lottery tickets like the FH privy medals are one thing. Things like this, made to sell at ginormous premiums at launch, are something else entirely. YMMV.
Actually, I don't think it is any more or less a coin the the spouse coins. They are all precious metal NCLT.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
I don't believe there are remotely (as not within a "moonshot") 1000 actual hobbyist collectors for First Spouse. We're talking about a series now costing somewhat less than $100K for proofs and "business strikes" each.
I doubt there are even 100, with everyone else seemingly buying it due to the mintage or as a low premium substitute to bullion hoping the premium goes up when anyone but them actually decides they want it as a collectible because it's "rare". That's what I see for practically all $5 gold commemoratives too, even those with the lowest mintage.
With the silver medal, it's a one-off, but still completely uncompetitive for what it actually is as a collectible at $750.
@NJCoin said:
So, if @HalfDime turns out to be right, people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
You keep saying that no one wants these except for me, that is ludicrous.
I don't think you realize how low 2026 is in the coin world. That is where the hated gold spouse coins fell to at the end of their run. As bad as those were, they still managed about 2000 unc gold at the end.
These are the opposite of those.
The silver medal is the entry path to these. It will rise in price since the gold is 10k. Also the gold owners may want a silver to go with theirs. That means extra demand.
I actually hope everyone stays away though and lets me order from the clunky website.
@NJCoin said:
So, if @HalfDime turns out to be right, people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
You keep saying that no one wants these except for me, that is ludicrous.
I don't think you realize how low 2026 is in the coin world. That is where the hated gold spouse coins fell to at the end of their run. As bad as those were, they still managed about 2000 unc gold at the end.
These are the opposite of those.
The silver medal is the entry path to these. It will rise in price since the gold is 10k. Also the gold owners may want a silver to go with theirs. That means extra demand.
I actually hope everyone stays away though and lets me order from the clunky website.
FWIW.... I'm gonna give it a shot, odds are against me..... however I'm gonna try for one. I wish all the best of luck !
I'm late to this thread but caught up and read the whole thing. A few stated it but still I think most of the forum fails to realize that this forum is not the target audience for this so the negativity is to be expected. The members here like buying nice things at bargain prices and US mint products rarely or never fit this bill and complaints abound even at the pricing on traditional products.
I think we should all appreciate the fact that the mint makes small quantity special coin products even though few of us can afford them. The mint really has only four options for these: a) Do what they are doing and be blasted for selling at high premiums but at levels that I estimate to be market pricing b) Sell at or near ASE/AGE/Buffalo pricing (for the gold coins) and have everyone pissed off that when they sell out in 4 seconds and the "bots" or "big boys" got them all and then be blasted for "leaving money on the table" or c) Send them to auction where they will fetch what I estimate to be prices in the neighborhood of these list prices or d) mint them to rough demand at ASE/AGE/Buffalo pricing in which case they will be just-another commemorative coin. I don't think that "a" is such a bad choice when viewed objectively.
IMO, and I could be wrong, but these will all sell out within minutes. The mint has done the research, they know what the market will bear. They know who to sell them to. They may just end up being gifts for rich people to give each other. The 250 is a big deal.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
You "observed" that you could not see these selling for $1500. They may or may not. HOWEVER, the FACT - no speculation involved - is that they are CURRENTLY selling for $1300 presale. So, your "observation" (hallucination?) that they could never sell for $1500 is close to already being false.
If I had seen the listing at $1300 and had faith the seller could deliver, I would have locked one or two up for $1300 as I am not confident about my ability to get one at launch time. I'd like to have approximately 0.1% of the whole supply of silver ones.
I'm kicking around the idea of the gold ones but I think the upside is limited and we will not see those selling for multiples of issue price like we will for the silver. I could be wrong.
@NJCoin said:
people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
I have a full set of spouses that I put together as they came out. I can't see anyone endeavoring to assemble a full set at today's gold prices but I still think the coin sector will heat up some day and these could ignite. Especially with an investment trend that perhaps no one sees coming such as tokenization or fractionalization. Trends and investments get hot and cold. There's no reason these couldn't ride the wave.
@NJCoin said:
So, if @HalfDime turns out to be right, people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
You keep saying that no one wants these except for me, that is ludicrous.
I don't think you realize how low 2026 is in the coin world. That is where the hated gold spouse coins fell to at the end of their run. As bad as those were, they still managed about 2000 unc gold at the end.
These are the opposite of those.
The silver medal is the entry path to these. It will rise in price since the gold is 10k. Also the gold owners may want a silver to go with theirs. That means extra demand.
I actually hope everyone stays away though and lets me order from the clunky website.
I realize how low 2026. I also realize a cast metal Liberty Bell is not a coin.
So it's a oddity. A souvenir. A tchotchke.
Yes, manufactured by the US Mint. Yes, in a relatively low quantity.
Now, it's a question of, if they make it, will they come? The word on the street, from people like you, is, yeah, we realize how low 2026 is, so we'll buy anything, at just about any price.
Because we love it, need it, and will cherish adding it to our collection? Or because we think someone else will value it far more highly than the pittance the Mint is asking for it?
I'm pretty sure most people, certainly most here, have no interest in adding a half ounce silver Liberty Bell to their collection for $750. Including you.
No, they are looking at FH privy medals, and seeing $2K, $3K, $5K when they see these. And, they might be right. I just don't see it, but am allowing for the possibility I might be wrong.
The market developed for the FH privy medals over time. And they were winning lottery tickets at $104 each. This is different in many ways.
People would have loved to have kept the FH privies at $104 if a secondary market never developed. That's not going to be the same with these at $750.
So, sure, you might get a 2 minute sell out. Followed by 2K of them on eBay at $5K each with no takers. Then what?
@goldenboy89 said:
most of those barbie and hot wheels type of coins have a mintage of 1,000 from what i remember.
No. They are in the 2-3K range, just like these. The differences are, not the US Mint, one ounce of silver, and starting prices around $100-150. Not half ounce of silver and $750.
The Mint, and everyone salivating over these, are counting on the fact that the US Mint has a far bigger following than PAMP and Solomon Islands. Which is true.
The question is whether that will carry over to a product like this. It sure didn't with superhero coins and medals which failed to sell in significantly greater numbers, and at similar prices, than similar items previously offered by the Royal Canadian Mint and the Perth Mint.
So we'll see. There are comparisons to things like low mintage ASEs and the FH silver privy medals that suggest the silver Liberty Bell will be a home run at $750. And comparison to things like Barbie and Hot Wheels that suggest these will be dogs at $750. TBD.
But no one other than @HalfDime is excited by the gold. They are both VERY expensive, and the mintages are really not that low for anything so expensive, with so relatively little precious metal content.
Answering my own question from a google AI search...
The 1915 Panama-Pacific (Pan-Pac) coins were not considered reasonably priced in their day . The $50 gold pieces cost $100 (double their face value), which was completely prohibitive when the average family income was roughly $687 per year. Because they were so expensive, sales were disastrously low.
While the public viewed them as overpriced, the prices accurately reflected their incredible artistic and intrinsic value:
Intrinsic Gold Value: The $50 pieces contained over 2.6 troy ounces of 90% gold. In terms of raw bullion, they actually held significant underlying precious metal worth.
Historical Significance: They were the highest denomination ever issued by the U.S. Mint and remain the only commemorative coins minted in both round and octagonal shapes.
The Silver Half Dollar: The Pan-Pac half dollar cost $1.00, which was double its face value, but it is highly praised by numismatists as a key piece of the American silver commemorative series.
Because the original public balked at the high premiums, over 60% of the $50 gold pieces (and large quantities of the smaller denominations) were melted down by the government. This makes them incredibly rare today, with surviving examples frequently selling at auction for anywhere between $75,000 and $250,000+ depending on the grade
"In 1915, 2.6 ounces of 90% pure gold was worth $48.37.Here is how that value breaks down:Official 1915 Gold Price: The United States was on the gold standard, and the official statutory price of gold was fixed at $20.67 per troy ounce.Pure Gold Content: 2.6 oz × 90% (0.90) = 2.34 ounces of pure, fine gold.Calculation: 2.34 oz × $20.67 = $48.37."
So, the Pan Pacs were extremely expensive for the average person. However, they were about 2x melt. Thus, they were not nearly the premium to spot that these are.
They were all coins, unlike the silver Liberty Bell.
@NJCoin said:
So it's a oddity. A souvenir. A tchotchke.
I hope everyone listens to you so I can order. Thanks for the help.
PS The mint made a big ugly coin back in 1915 that was octagonal. Nobody wanted it.
Good luck. I also hope you don't get stuck with them.
Because it doesn't really sound like you want this either, other than to flip to someone else for a profit. That's my only point here.
Not that 2,026 is not less than 60,000. But simply that if everyone only wants them to flip, who and what is the actual end consumer of half ounce silver replicas of the Liberty Bell at $750+, let alone the thousands of dollars people think they are going to be getting?
@NJCoin said:
So it's a oddity. A souvenir. A tchotchke.
I hope everyone listens to you so I can order. Thanks for the help.
PS The mint made a big ugly coin back in 1915 that was octagonal. Nobody wanted it.
Good luck. I also hope you don't get stuck with them.
Because it doesn't really sound like you want this either, other than to flip to someone else for a profit. That's my only point here.
Not that 2,026 is not less than 60,000. But simply that if everyone only wants them to flip, who and what is the actual end consumer of half ounce silver replicas of the Liberty Bell at $750+, let alone the thousands of dollars people think they are going to be getting?
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
The difference today vs. when the Pan Pac was issued is that in 1915, there wasn't a "collector" base of financial speculators buying it because of the low mintage which is now only relatively low because US mintages even for NCLT aren't actually that low. Again, look at the mintages of pre-1936 proofs.
"In 1915, 2.6 ounces of 90% pure gold was worth $48.37.Here is how that value breaks down:Official 1915 Gold Price: The United States was on the gold standard, and the official statutory price of gold was fixed at $20.67 per troy ounce.Pure Gold Content: 2.6 oz × 90% (0.90) = 2.34 ounces of pure, fine gold.Calculation: 2.34 oz × $20.67 = $48.37."
So, the Pan Pacs were extremely expensive for the average person. However, they were about 2x melt. Thus, they were not nearly the premium to spot that these are.
They were all coins, unlike the silver Liberty Bell.
Very interesting point though.
There isn't any actual comparability between modern US NCLT and the Pan Pac, especially in this case since one is a coin and the other isn't.
Your point of the premium is one of multiple reasons I use to make this claim. I don't claim this medal can't become more valuable at all (we're not discussing physics here), but it's another thing entirely to compare it to a coin which increased by a multiple of dozens even adjusted for price changes (inflation). Any such increase, or anywhere near it, would make it both completely uncompetitive vs. everything else and unaffordable to its actual (as opposed to imaginary) collector base. That's not about to happen. It's not a candidate "heirloom" asset.
I'm also aware collectors don't have the same preferences I do, but hobbyist collectors (as opposed to financially motivated speculators) don't disregard the price of all alternatives where it's credible that it's going to increase and hold much higher value longer term due to what it actually is as a collectible.
@WCC said:
There isn't any actual comparability between modern US NCLT and the Pan Pac, especially in this case since one is a coin and the other isn't.
Huh? According to the mint website the gold versions are coins.
The silver is a medal, but it will sell like a coin since the two big brothers will drag it along.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
@WCC said:
There isn't any actual comparability between modern US NCLT and the Pan Pac, especially in this case since one is a coin and the other isn't.
Huh? According to the mint website the gold versions are coins.
The silver is a medal, but it will sell like a coin since the two big brothers will drag it along.
It's a "coin" because they monetized the bell shaped trinket. Not because it looks like a coin, spends like a coin, or wouldn't be tossed out of a Coinstar if someone tried to cash it in as a coin. It's not a coin in the way the world knows and loves coins.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
It’s a game of “hot potato” or not. Can’t wait to find out!
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
Comments
Have you seen the size of these Liberty Bells? The mint just sent me a pic. They look Huge!!
These are selling for way over issue price on Ebay.
Coin TPGs don't slab coins, but AFA and CGA do it for toys. They are just bigger plastic boxes. Here's a screenshot of a couple:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
NJ says those listings are all fake.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I have a feeling NJ is going to be backpeddling on these.
W such limited mintage are the big boys getting these???
Interesting. Both the silver and gold examples have the same cert. number - which doesn't show as a valid number on the PCGS Verify site. Also interesting - the silver medal is labeled as "Liberty Bell One Half Ounce Coin (it's a medal, not a coin); and the gold example is labeled simply as "Liberty Bell Gold Medal" when it's a $125 denominated coin.
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
Good catch bro !
They are presale. They aren't photos of actual coins. It's just a mock up.
You might also notice that the coin type ID number is 0000000.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The bells should have been a 3 ounce silver, 2.5 ounce gold and 1.25 ounce gold -- the gold sort of being only about double spot. But hey, what do I know -- I would have made the cents out of bronze and the Jeffersons on the silver proof set 35% wartime silver content.
That's a real beauty. Did you get it from Stack's?
Yeah, there are many factors that tell you there's nothing real about the photos. Most misleading, I think, is the size of the examples in the images. The actual coins will be just 1.024 inches high and 0.888 inches across. If you ordered one presale based on these images, you'll probably be expecting something substantially larger than what you will receive. Sorta like the burgers you see in all the fast-food TV ads compared to what they hand you when you order one.
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
They are. Because no one has anything to sell yet, and no one knows whether or not they will be getting anything to sell.
Those sales will be fulfilled if the seller can do so at a profit. Otherwise, not. Right now, they are nothing more than free options being granted by the buyer to the seller.
And, no one knows anything right now, other than would be sellers are being very aggressive with the silvers, less so with the gold. Which means nothing other than the Mint really should have considered doing something to align mintages with sales prices. The thing being sold at $750 shouldn't be offered in the same quantity as the thing being sold for $20K.
Sellers seem convinced 2,026 of anything at $750 will be a winner. TBD. There doesn't seem to be as much excitement at $10K and $20K.
Right now, people are listing silvers at $3-5K. You posted a few days ago that people were buying at $1300. You still think anyone actually pre-bought at $1300, if actual in hand sales end up starting at $3K?
As I said, nothing but free options. If no one wants them, sure, early suckers locked in at $1300. Otherwise, they get nothing. TBD.
This is why presales are totally meaningless. When sellers post listings with Mint order confirmation numbers, we'll see a market. Right now, it's all just noise.
Are you backpeddling already on these, they haven't even been released yet.
We knew the mintages when they were first posted, and they only did 2026 silver medals.
They should have only done 1776 gold 1 ounce to take the price up.
They coulda made them much bigger too.
I doubt anyone will be able to waltz onto the mint website and buy all three unless they have a backdoor to the mint website or just get lucky in the queue.
Depends on how many they let in at once on the queue. If they only let in 100 people at a time, then it will be easy to get all three. If they let in 2000 at a time, it will be hard.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Not backpedaling. Just observing.
Nothing means anything until in hand sales occur. Just like I said.
I'll backpedal when buy offers come in from the usual suspects. I always allowed for the possibility I could be wrong, and always said I'd own up to it if that was the case. No need to jump the gun just yet.
I'm just observing that asking prices for the silver are much more aggressively marked up than for the gold, and I'm speculating it's because the mintage is the same as for much higher priced product. Which is not usually the case.
None of this means there will be a market for a half ounce of silver at $5,000, while there is no market for a half ounce of gold at $10,000. Just means people are testing the water. Seeing if they can lure some poor dopes into granting them free options.
As I said, you can knock yourself out. I'm not interested in the silver at $750, let alone $1,300 or $5,000.
Actually, no. If the eBay action now is an indication, people will be chasing the silver looking for a score.
The $20K gold coin will not be a consolation prize. Not sure who the silver buyers are supposed to be at $3-5K, but I don't see anyone, maybe other than @HalfDime, actually wanting the silver at $750 as a cherished keepsake of this historic 250th birthday.
So, if @HalfDime turns out to be right, people will slam the website, thinking $750 is a risk worth taking for a flip for something with such a low mintage. Not because they actually want the medal at $750 for their collections.
Maybe they'll be right, maybe not. But $10-20K is a lot more to risk for something with relatively low intrinsic value if you don't actually want to keep it, as I don't imagine many buyers will.
If my reasoning is correct, it won't matter how many people they let into the website, because the only page seeing any action will be the one with the silver medal on it. If @HalfDime is right, past history suggests more than 2K will be on the site at launch, and the silver will be gone in as little time as it takes to process 2K orders. Less what they give to ABPP.
The gold, especially the one ounce gold, will likely be available for quite some time at $20K, because there is not a proven secondary market for anything like this at a premium high enough for anyone to justify risking $20K. So the only buyers will be those who actually want it. And, I think they will be far and few between.
I've been stating similar sentiments in all these NCLT threads. If the posts in these threads are a reasonable indication of the perception toward these mint products which I'm confident is the case, buying is overwhelmingly financially driven. This shows up in the secondary market prices and premiums too. It's either for "flipping", "portfolio diversification", "investment", or collectors with a very low risk tolerance prioritizing liquidity and marketability over collecting.
Obviously, it's not because these buyers like this coinage so much, or else these threads would say more (something, anything) about the coin which doesn't happen, because it isn't competitive as a collectible and there is virtually nothing to say about it.
Some of it is completeness. People collect a series and want it to be complete. Those people are generally mad because they know the price won't hold, but they just can't say "no".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Totally agree. The thing is, this is totally unique, so there is nothing to look to for guidance. People look at low mintage ASEs, or the FH privy medals, and see a slam dunk here. They might be right, or they might end up stuck with a $750 half ounce of silver in the shape of the beloved Liberty Bell. TBD.
But the fact that most people here have no actual interest in adding it to their collection tells me that there is a risk no one else will have an actual interest, either at $750, or at whatever premium they hope to get. It looks like it just might end up being a hot potato, rather than the greatest acquisition from the Mint since the V75 AGE.
Can't say no to what exactly? What series will these be completing, other than "everything the Mint has ever produced"?
All Mint products. All SemiQ products. Silver products. Silver or gold commems. There are numerous sets these could be considered part of.
But @WCC mentioned NCLT threads, in general. My response was intended to be general.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The thing about the V75 AGE of course is that it was reasonably priced. For those lucky enough to get one, they got it at a reasonable price. It is also part of a very popular series. It looks like we'll never have a similar opportunity again to get something like that at a reasonable price without the Mint marking it up astronomically or selling at auction.
I agree. I just don't believe there are anywhere near 2,026 of them.
Idk. The spouse coins suggest more like 1000 or less, but who knows?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Agreed. And even they were actually coins. These are curiosities or tchotchkes. More similar to Hot Wheels or Barbies made by PAMP than any actual US coin.
While the Hot Wheels or Barbies are made under the auspices of Solomon Islands, rather than the United States of America, they are made with similar mintages, aimed at the exact same market (American coin and tchotchke collectors), are issued at a tiny fraction of the price the Mint is seeking (typically around 2-3x spot), and don't go for huge premiums in the secondary market.
So, it is obvious what the eBay sellers hope to get. Remains to be seen who bites, thinking these are FH privy medals 2.0, and who thinks they are too gimmicky to be interesting at the price, even with the ultra low mintage.
As I have said before, I honestly don't think I'd be interested at any price, because coins that are not round just don't interest me. But, if I was interested, it would be at a reasonable premium to production cost. No more than $100 for the silver medal, no matter how high or low the mintage was.
I'm just not impressed by the crazy low artificial mintage, and have no interest in chasing such things at such premiums. I have better places to park my money, and seriously doubt anything made to be an instant rarity will hold its value over time.
Lottery tickets like the FH privy medals are one thing. Things like this, made to sell at ginormous premiums at launch, are something else entirely. YMMV.
most of those barbie and hot wheels type of coins have a mintage of 1,000 from what i remember.
I don't believe there are remotely (as not within a "moonshot") 1000 actual hobbyist collectors for First Spouse. We're talking about a series now costing somewhat less than $100K for proofs and "business strikes" each.
I doubt there are even 100, with everyone else seemingly buying it due to the mintage or as a low premium substitute to bullion hoping the premium goes up when anyone but them actually decides they want it as a collectible because it's "rare". That's what I see for practically all $5 gold commemoratives too, even those with the lowest mintage.
With the silver medal, it's a one-off, but still completely uncompetitive for what it actually is as a collectible at $750.
I said "or less"
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Actually, I don't think it is any more or less a coin the the spouse coins. They are all precious metal NCLT.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You're right, you did
You keep saying that no one wants these except for me, that is ludicrous.
I don't think you realize how low 2026 is in the coin world. That is where the hated gold spouse coins fell to at the end of their run. As bad as those were, they still managed about 2000 unc gold at the end.
These are the opposite of those.
The silver medal is the entry path to these. It will rise in price since the gold is 10k. Also the gold owners may want a silver to go with theirs. That means extra demand.
I actually hope everyone stays away though and lets me order from the clunky website.
FWIW.... I'm gonna give it a shot, odds are against me..... however I'm gonna try for one. I wish all the best of luck !
I'm late to this thread but caught up and read the whole thing. A few stated it but still I think most of the forum fails to realize that this forum is not the target audience for this so the negativity is to be expected. The members here like buying nice things at bargain prices and US mint products rarely or never fit this bill and complaints abound even at the pricing on traditional products.
I think we should all appreciate the fact that the mint makes small quantity special coin products even though few of us can afford them. The mint really has only four options for these: a) Do what they are doing and be blasted for selling at high premiums but at levels that I estimate to be market pricing b) Sell at or near ASE/AGE/Buffalo pricing (for the gold coins) and have everyone pissed off that when they sell out in 4 seconds and the "bots" or "big boys" got them all and then be blasted for "leaving money on the table" or c) Send them to auction where they will fetch what I estimate to be prices in the neighborhood of these list prices or d) mint them to rough demand at ASE/AGE/Buffalo pricing in which case they will be just-another commemorative coin. I don't think that "a" is such a bad choice when viewed objectively.
IMO, and I could be wrong, but these will all sell out within minutes. The mint has done the research, they know what the market will bear. They know who to sell them to. They may just end up being gifts for rich people to give each other. The 250 is a big deal.
If I had seen the listing at $1300 and had faith the seller could deliver, I would have locked one or two up for $1300 as I am not confident about my ability to get one at launch time. I'd like to have approximately 0.1% of the whole supply of silver ones.
I'm kicking around the idea of the gold ones but I think the upside is limited and we will not see those selling for multiples of issue price like we will for the silver. I could be wrong.
I have a full set of spouses that I put together as they came out. I can't see anyone endeavoring to assemble a full set at today's gold prices but I still think the coin sector will heat up some day and these could ignite. Especially with an investment trend that perhaps no one sees coming such as tokenization or fractionalization. Trends and investments get hot and cold. There's no reason these couldn't ride the wave.
I realize how low 2026. I also realize a cast metal Liberty Bell is not a coin.
So it's a oddity. A souvenir. A tchotchke.
Yes, manufactured by the US Mint. Yes, in a relatively low quantity.
Now, it's a question of, if they make it, will they come? The word on the street, from people like you, is, yeah, we realize how low 2026 is, so we'll buy anything, at just about any price.
Because we love it, need it, and will cherish adding it to our collection? Or because we think someone else will value it far more highly than the pittance the Mint is asking for it?
I'm pretty sure most people, certainly most here, have no interest in adding a half ounce silver Liberty Bell to their collection for $750. Including you.
No, they are looking at FH privy medals, and seeing $2K, $3K, $5K when they see these. And, they might be right. I just don't see it, but am allowing for the possibility I might be wrong.
The market developed for the FH privy medals over time. And they were winning lottery tickets at $104 each. This is different in many ways.
People would have loved to have kept the FH privies at $104 if a secondary market never developed. That's not going to be the same with these at $750.
So, sure, you might get a 2 minute sell out. Followed by 2K of them on eBay at $5K each with no takers. Then what?
No. They are in the 2-3K range, just like these. The differences are, not the US Mint, one ounce of silver, and starting prices around $100-150. Not half ounce of silver and $750.
The Mint, and everyone salivating over these, are counting on the fact that the US Mint has a far bigger following than PAMP and Solomon Islands. Which is true.
The question is whether that will carry over to a product like this. It sure didn't with superhero coins and medals which failed to sell in significantly greater numbers, and at similar prices, than similar items previously offered by the Royal Canadian Mint and the Perth Mint.
So we'll see. There are comparisons to things like low mintage ASEs and the FH silver privy medals that suggest the silver Liberty Bell will be a home run at $750. And comparison to things like Barbie and Hot Wheels that suggest these will be dogs at $750. TBD.
But no one other than @HalfDime is excited by the gold. They are both VERY expensive, and the mintages are really not that low for anything so expensive, with so relatively little precious metal content.
I hope everyone listens to you so I can order. Thanks for the help.
PS The mint made a big ugly coin back in 1915 that was octagonal. Nobody wanted it.
I wonder if the Pan Pac sets were priced reasonably for what they were or w a huge mark up. I'll have to research that.
Very interesting analogy!
Answering my own question from a google AI search...
The 1915 Panama-Pacific (Pan-Pac) coins were not considered reasonably priced in their day . The $50 gold pieces cost $100 (double their face value), which was completely prohibitive when the average family income was roughly $687 per year. Because they were so expensive, sales were disastrously low.
While the public viewed them as overpriced, the prices accurately reflected their incredible artistic and intrinsic value:
Intrinsic Gold Value: The $50 pieces contained over 2.6 troy ounces of 90% gold. In terms of raw bullion, they actually held significant underlying precious metal worth.
Historical Significance: They were the highest denomination ever issued by the U.S. Mint and remain the only commemorative coins minted in both round and octagonal shapes.
The Silver Half Dollar: The Pan-Pac half dollar cost $1.00, which was double its face value, but it is highly praised by numismatists as a key piece of the American silver commemorative series.
Because the original public balked at the high premiums, over 60% of the $50 gold pieces (and large quantities of the smaller denominations) were melted down by the government. This makes them incredibly rare today, with surviving examples frequently selling at auction for anywhere between $75,000 and $250,000+ depending on the grade
Continuing from above...
"In 1915, 2.6 ounces of 90% pure gold was worth $48.37.Here is how that value breaks down:Official 1915 Gold Price: The United States was on the gold standard, and the official statutory price of gold was fixed at $20.67 per troy ounce.Pure Gold Content: 2.6 oz × 90% (0.90) = 2.34 ounces of pure, fine gold.Calculation: 2.34 oz × $20.67 = $48.37."
So, the Pan Pacs were extremely expensive for the average person. However, they were about 2x melt. Thus, they were not nearly the premium to spot that these are.
They were all coins, unlike the silver Liberty Bell.
Very interesting point though.
Good luck. I also hope you don't get stuck with them.
Because it doesn't really sound like you want this either, other than to flip to someone else for a profit. That's my only point here.
Not that 2,026 is not less than 60,000. But simply that if everyone only wants them to flip, who and what is the actual end consumer of half ounce silver replicas of the Liberty Bell at $750+, let alone the thousands of dollars people think they are going to be getting?
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
The difference today vs. when the Pan Pac was issued is that in 1915, there wasn't a "collector" base of financial speculators buying it because of the low mintage which is now only relatively low because US mintages even for NCLT aren't actually that low. Again, look at the mintages of pre-1936 proofs.
There isn't any actual comparability between modern US NCLT and the Pan Pac, especially in this case since one is a coin and the other isn't.
Your point of the premium is one of multiple reasons I use to make this claim. I don't claim this medal can't become more valuable at all (we're not discussing physics here), but it's another thing entirely to compare it to a coin which increased by a multiple of dozens even adjusted for price changes (inflation). Any such increase, or anywhere near it, would make it both completely uncompetitive vs. everything else and unaffordable to its actual (as opposed to imaginary) collector base. That's not about to happen. It's not a candidate "heirloom" asset.
I'm also aware collectors don't have the same preferences I do, but hobbyist collectors (as opposed to financially motivated speculators) don't disregard the price of all alternatives where it's credible that it's going to increase and hold much higher value longer term due to what it actually is as a collectible.
Huh? According to the mint website the gold versions are coins.
The silver is a medal, but it will sell like a coin since the two big brothers will drag it along.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
It's a "coin" because they monetized the bell shaped trinket. Not because it looks like a coin, spends like a coin, or wouldn't be tossed out of a Coinstar if someone tried to cash it in as a coin. It's not a coin in the way the world knows and loves coins.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
It’s a game of “hot potato” or not. Can’t wait to find out!
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.