Who would want to be a modern coin equivalent of Eliasberg and want everything the Mint produces?
What is the historical significance of that?
Buy what you like, what you want to collect, if you are so inclined, what will have likely value over time.
The MInt will never please everyone so why try? Because they develop product that does not appeal to you, don't take it so personal.
This is a tiny limited edition release that will not change your life.
@mbr33 said:
Here’s the math for each: Not a bad day for the Mint if they sell out. A helpful idea if you’re interested in buying, we have a month to sell off any body organs you’re not using and won’t need.
$19,600.00 x 2026 = $39,709,600.00
$10,050.00 x 2026 =$20,361,300.00
$750.00 x 2026 =$1,519,500.00
$61million for three items. And someone said the mint looses money every year? I must be missing something.
The numismatic division used to lose money every year... before the huge price increases. They don't anymore.
Well yes, but now at least it will support the bloated administration that seems to be doing a very poor QC job, maybe they can afford a full time Denver superintendent now? Or perhaps some line QC people?
The MInt will never please everyone so why try? Because they develop product that does not appeal to you, don't take it so personal.
This is a tiny limited edition release that will not change your life.
I think the reason people are taking it personally is because the Mint is pricing people out of the hobby across the board. Just look at the price of a basic uncirculated 2026 set. Not long ago it was < $50 and now it's $124.
Personally I think these bell medals are both unattractive and overpriced. I don't take it personal, I'm just ignoring it
@mbr33 said:
I agree with all the negatives here, and am disappointed with the Mint's decisions here.
That being said, if I play the role of Devil's advocate for a second.....this release isn't for most of us. It's an auction with the winning bid already assigned to the price-point. The Mint in a way has auctioned these off for $19,000, $10,000 and $750. Now the winners just have to claim them on drop day. 2026 people can be "winners" by beating their fellow man to the punch and claim one. Will there be a secondary market? Probably, but that club of buyers is also a small one....and no doubt will always be a small one.
So what's next? Is there anything else in the works for the rest of us that's more attainable and attractive to the Average Joe? Would be nice. The Mint schedule for the end of the year is pretty sparse and could use a nice booster-rocket of a coin or coin set. Fractional Buffaloes ??? I know, I know....not everyone is a fan, but I wouldn't mind a 20th Anniversary set of those.
Respectfully, disagree. Auction items sell at the highest bid.
This is more like an eBay Buy It Now. Only with 2026 of the exact same item. Times 3. Being offered at absurd prices.
No, it's a cynical money grab. Not an auction of extremely rare and desirable items, with a pre-determined winning bid. Not unless they sell all 2026 times 3.
People here are assuming they will sell out. Because semisesquicentennial. Because US Mint. Because very low mintage.
As though everything the Mint offers sell out. At whatever price they dictate. TBD.
But there are multiple low mintage 2025 and 2026 gold numismatic offerings from the Mint that are currently available, weeks, months, and over a year after release that say I'm right and whoever at the Mint thought they could pull this off was wrong.
Probably the same geniuses that thought anything based on DC comic characters would be instant sell outs at any price. Pretty sure every single one of them is still available, in quantity.
People forget that supply is only one side of the supply/demand equation. Price anything high enough, and you kill demand. At the extreme, that makes any supply at all too much.
Almost certainly will with 4052 gold pieces priced at nearly 5x $4K per ounce gold, and with 2026 silver pieces priced at nearly 23x $66 silver. Might as well be 1/1000 ounce gold "bars" Mike Mezack offers on HSN at $50 each.
@mbr33 said:
I agree with all the negatives here, and am disappointed with the Mint's decisions here.
That being said, if I play the role of Devil's advocate for a second.....this release isn't for most of us. It's an auction with the winning bid already assigned to the price-point. The Mint in a way has auctioned these off for $19,000, $10,000 and $750. Now the winners just have to claim them on drop day. 2026 people can be "winners" by beating their fellow man to the punch and claim one. Will there be a secondary market? Probably, but that club of buyers is also a small one....and no doubt will always be a small one.
So what's next? Is there anything else in the works for the rest of us that's more attainable and attractive to the Average Joe? Would be nice. The Mint schedule for the end of the year is pretty sparse and could use a nice booster-rocket of a coin or coin set. Fractional Buffaloes ??? I know, I know....not everyone is a fan, but I wouldn't mind a 20th Anniversary set of those.
Respectfully, disagree. Auction items sell at the highest bid.
This is more like an eBay Buy It Now. Only with 2026 of the exact same item. Times 3. Being offered at absurd prices.
No, it's a cynical money grab. Not an auction of extremely rare and desirable items, with a pre-determined winning bid. Not unless they sell all 2026 times 3.
People here are assuming they will sell out. Because semisesquicentennial. Because US Mint. Because very low mintage.
As though everything the Mint offers sell out. At whatever price they dictate. TBD.
But there are multiple low mintage 2025 and 2026 gold numismatic offerings from the Mint that are currently available, weeks, months, and over a year after release that say I'm right and whoever at the Mint thought they could pull this off was wrong.
Probably the same geniuses that thought anything based on DC comic characters would be instant sell outs at any price. Pretty sure every single one of them is still available, in quantity.
People forget that supply is only one side of the supply/demand equation. Price anything high enough, and you kill demand. At the extreme, that makes any supply at all too much.
Almost certainly will with 4052 gold pieces priced at nearly 5x $4K per ounce gold, and with 2026 silver pieces priced at nearly 23x $66 silver. Might as well be 1/1000 ounce gold "bars" Mike Mezack offers on HSN at $50 each.
I'm always glad to hear your thoughts. Your opinion that it's more like an Ebay "Buy it Now" is spot-on. I forgot about that option when thinking this product over this morning.
It remains to be seen what happens with this, but I think the Mint is going for a different set of "new" buyers for this. Perhaps those with more money than they know what to do with, that normally don't purchase Mint product? We won't have buyer's clubs in on this one, but the major online dealers may try to grab some just to have in inventory for inventory's sake. It's a great test of how far the Mint can take it, and I'm here for it and anxious to see how they do. I wish them luck, but as you said......5 X's spot is way too far of a stretch for me. I'm not who they are after.
Do you (or anyone) know if dealers get a shot at this one first?
@mbr33 said:
I agree with all the negatives here, and am disappointed with the Mint's decisions here.
That being said, if I play the role of Devil's advocate for a second.....this release isn't for most of us. It's an auction with the winning bid already assigned to the price-point. The Mint in a way has auctioned these off for $19,000, $10,000 and $750. Now the winners just have to claim them on drop day. 2026 people can be "winners" by beating their fellow man to the punch and claim one. Will there be a secondary market? Probably, but that club of buyers is also a small one....and no doubt will always be a small one.
So what's next? Is there anything else in the works for the rest of us that's more attainable and attractive to the Average Joe? Would be nice. The Mint schedule for the end of the year is pretty sparse and could use a nice booster-rocket of a coin or coin set. Fractional Buffaloes ??? I know, I know....not everyone is a fan, but I wouldn't mind a 20th Anniversary set of those.
Respectfully, disagree. Auction items sell at the highest bid.
This is more like an eBay Buy It Now. Only with 2026 of the exact same item. Times 3. Being offered at absurd prices.
No, it's a cynical money grab. Not an auction of extremely rare and desirable items, with a pre-determined winning bid. Not unless they sell all 2026 times 3.
People here are assuming they will sell out. Because semisesquicentennial. Because US Mint. Because very low mintage.
As though everything the Mint offers sell out. At whatever price they dictate. TBD.
But there are multiple low mintage 2025 and 2026 gold numismatic offerings from the Mint that are currently available, weeks, months, and over a year after release that say I'm right and whoever at the Mint thought they could pull this off was wrong.
Probably the same geniuses that thought anything based on DC comic characters would be instant sell outs at any price. Pretty sure every single one of them is still available, in quantity.
People forget that supply is only one side of the supply/demand equation. Price anything high enough, and you kill demand. At the extreme, that makes any supply at all too much.
Almost certainly will with 4052 gold pieces priced at nearly 5x $4K per ounce gold, and with 2026 silver pieces priced at nearly 23x $66 silver. Might as well be 1/1000 ounce gold "bars" Mike Mezack offers on HSN at $50 each.
I'm always glad to hear your thoughts. Your opinion that it's more like an Ebay "Buy it Now" is spot-on. I forgot about that option when thinking this product over this morning.
It remains to be seen what happens with this, but I think the Mint is going for a different set of "new" buyers for this. Perhaps those with more money than they know what to do with, that normally don't purchase Mint product? We won't have buyer's clubs in on this one, but the major online dealers may try to grab some just to have in inventory for inventory's sake. It's a great test of how far the Mint can take it, and I'm here for it and anxious to see how they do. I wish them luck, but as you said......5 X's spot is way too far of a stretch for me. I'm not who they are after.
Do you (or anyone) know if dealers get a shot at this one first?
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
People with $20K to spend on a single new issue coin are generally far too sophisticated to be interested in trinkets like this. And regular folks who might otherwise be interested as a 250th souvenir will be priced out.
Huge swing and a miss here, as new management got too cute by half on this one. Should have stuck to usual mintages and usual pricing. This is going to be the same type of dud as the superhero coins, as nice as some of them are, where they priced themselves out of the market with the generous royalties they committed to pay DC.
As far as "shots" go, I don't think that will be relevant. I don't think dealers will want anything to do with them, for the reasons I outlined.
I'm not simply upset because I'm dying to have one and can't afford it. I really, truly think it's vastly overpriced crap, and that there won't be a secondary market for it. Our course, I can always be wrong, but if that's the case, why would any reseller want to tie up capital in it?
Moreover, there are not really enough for a meaningful Advance Release program. What would they do, offer each of the 20 or so Advance Release dealers 10 of them? To what end? So Mike can offer them on HSN at $50K each?
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
People with $20K to spend on a single new issue coin are generally far too sophisticated to be interested in trinkets like this. And regular folks who might otherwise be interested as a 250th souvenir will be priced out.
Huge swing and a miss here, as new management got too cute by half on this one. Should have stuck to usual mintages and usual pricing. This is going to be the same type of dud as the superhero coins, as nice as some of them are, where they priced themselves out of the market with the generous royalties they committed to pay DC.
As far as "shots" go, I don't think that will be relevant. I don't think dealers will want anything to do with them, for the reasons I outlined.
I'm not simply upset because I'm dying to have one and can't afford it. I really, truly think it's vastly overpriced crap, and that there won't be a secondary market for it. Our course, I can always be wrong, but if that's the case, why would any reseller want to tie up capital in it?
Moreover, there are not really enough for a meaningful Advance Release program. What would they do, offer each of the 20 or so Advance Release dealers 10 of them? To what end? So Mike can offer them on HSN at $50K each?
I went back to read the original legislation that authorized this (and several other items) to see if the Director was boxed into a corner with mintage limits or pricing and I find nada. So, this is all on him and time will tell if this was a hit or the huge miss that many of us feel it will be.
For the price, it should come in the finest wooden box that money can buy. It doesn't appear that's the case. Looks cheap and regular. Same with the COA. I hope Mr Hollis finds time to sign 2026 notes to all buyers on this one. Auto-pen or not, that should be the case. He might also consider flying along with them and delivering the one OZ golds himself. LOL!
@NJCoin said:
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
Then get ready for the shock of your life when these no market Liberty bells sell out at these very high prices.
Are they allocating 10% or more of these to dealers is the question, as they will be dumping them like hot potatoes if they do. If they aren't then the HHL of 1 will help hold prices high as it will distribute them and many won't be selling.
@mbr33 said:
I agree with all the negatives here, and am disappointed with the Mint's decisions here.
That being said, if I play the role of Devil's advocate for a second.....this release isn't for most of us. It's an auction with the winning bid already assigned to the price-point. The Mint in a way has auctioned these off for $19,000, $10,000 and $750. Now the winners just have to claim them on drop day. 2026 people can be "winners" by beating their fellow man to the punch and claim one. Will there be a secondary market? Probably, but that club of buyers is also a small one....and no doubt will always be a small one.
So what's next? Is there anything else in the works for the rest of us that's more attainable and attractive to the Average Joe? Would be nice. The Mint schedule for the end of the year is pretty sparse and could use a nice booster-rocket of a coin or coin set. Fractional Buffaloes ??? I know, I know....not everyone is a fan, but I wouldn't mind a 20th Anniversary set of those.
Respectfully, disagree. Auction items sell at the highest bid.
This is more like an eBay Buy It Now. Only with 2026 of the exact same item. Times 3. Being offered at absurd prices.
No, it's a cynical money grab. Not an auction of extremely rare and desirable items, with a pre-determined winning bid. Not unless they sell all 2026 times 3.
People here are assuming they will sell out. Because semisesquicentennial. Because US Mint. Because very low mintage.
As though everything the Mint offers sell out. At whatever price they dictate. TBD.
But there are multiple low mintage 2025 and 2026 gold numismatic offerings from the Mint that are currently available, weeks, months, and over a year after release that say I'm right and whoever at the Mint thought they could pull this off was wrong.
Probably the same geniuses that thought anything based on DC comic characters would be instant sell outs at any price. Pretty sure every single one of them is still available, in quantity.
People forget that supply is only one side of the supply/demand equation. Price anything high enough, and you kill demand. At the extreme, that makes any supply at all too much.
Almost certainly will with 4052 gold pieces priced at nearly 5x $4K per ounce gold, and with 2026 silver pieces priced at nearly 23x $66 silver. Might as well be 1/1000 ounce gold "bars" Mike Mezack offers on HSN at $50 each.
I see you visited my ebay store.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
Then get ready for the shock of your life when these no market Liberty bells sell out at these very high prices.
It's a coin-toss, but I'm leaning just a little more in your direction the more I read. My first reaction is the same as NJ, but I feel like this one could surprise a lot of us. If they put the full-court press on all over media-land leading up to release day, then I think they come out on the good side.
@NJCoin said:
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
Then get ready for the shock of your life when these no market Liberty bells sell out at these very high prices.
Are they allocating 10% or more of these to dealers is the question, as they will be dumping them like hot potatoes if they do. If they aren't then the HHL of 1 will help hold prices high as it will distribute them and many won't be selling.
Yeah. Maybe. Or not. I think it's a tough call. On one hand, the price is astronomical and the mintages are fairly high. On the other hand, it is a novelty, even though other Mints have done it before, the US hasn't and it is the 250th.
I will not be surprised if they sell less than 500. I will also not be surprised if they sell out in 5 minutes.
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If the silver was also a coin it would be many multiples to its release price, but since it is a medal that may drop it down. The 2024 Flowing Hair silver medal Privy Mark at 1794 mintage sell for almost 5 grand. These are a 2026 mintage which is a few hundred higher at 2026.
Insane. Beautiful coin, but not 4x spot. or 11x spot.
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At $19,000 you could buy a bronze Libertas Americana medal. It would have some problems, but the original mintage was 200, and the estimated number of survivors is 100 to 125.
Benjamin Franklin paid for these and he handed out some of them. It sure beats a modern "instant rarity," gimmicky mint product.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
At $19,000 you could buy a bronze Libertas Americana medal. It would have some problems, but the original mintage was 200, and the estimated number of survivors is 100 to 125.
Benjamin Franklin paid for these and he handed out some of them. It sure beats a modern "instant rarity," gimmicky mint product.
To YOU it does.
There's also no reason why someone can't have both.
To most of the population, BOTH of them seem ridiculous. And I'm sure quite a few people think the bronze is nore ridiculous then the gold at that price.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Paying $1500 per ounce for silver is More than over the top! Buying a 1/2-ounce silver bar/slab from the mint is ridiculous for me. The asking price for the gold bells is even worse. I believe Scrooge McDuck would be happy with these prices.
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@BillJones said:
At $19,000 you could buy a bronze Libertas Americana medal. It would have some problems, but the original mintage was 200, and the estimated number of survivors is 100 to 125.
Benjamin Franklin paid for these and he handed out some of them. It sure beats a modern "instant rarity," gimmicky mint product.
Great idea!
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
@BillJones said:
At $19,000 you could buy a bronze Libertas Americana medal. It would have some problems, but the original mintage was 200, and the estimated number of survivors is 100 to 125.
Benjamin Franklin paid for these and he handed out some of them. It sure beats a modern "instant rarity," gimmicky mint product.
To YOU it does.
There's also no reason why someone can't have both.
To most of the population, BOTH of them seem ridiculous. And I'm sure quite a few people think the bronze is nore ridiculous then the gold at that price.
I strongly disagree. If some can afford both, the cost of a really nice one would be equal to the not so nice one plus the cost of the Mint Liberty Bell medal.
This medal was sponsored and distributed by Benjamin Franklin, struck in the city where the Treaty of Paris was signed and issued in commemoration of American independence. This is a piece of history, and that’s why it’s so expensive. Heritage is in the process of auctioning an example in silver for over $300 thousand. There are 35 to 40 of the silver pieces, and this is one of the best surviving specimens and has a CAC sticker.
And no, the population of this piece is not ridiculous. Franklin had 200 of these pieces made in bronze, 50 in silver and two in gold for the king and queen of France. The bronze and silver mintages were high for the period. These medals are almost 250 years old. Having about 150 survivors is not ridiculous.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
At $19,000 you could buy a bronze Libertas Americana medal. It would have some problems, but the original mintage was 200, and the estimated number of survivors is 100 to 125.
Benjamin Franklin paid for these and he handed out some of them. It sure beats a modern "instant rarity," gimmicky mint product.
To YOU it does.
There's also no reason why someone can't have both.
To most of the population, BOTH of them seem ridiculous. And I'm sure quite a few people think the bronze is nore ridiculous then the gold at that price.
I strongly disagree. If some can afford both, the cost of a really nice one would be equal to the not so nice one plus the cost of the Mint Liberty Bell medal.
This medal was sponsored and distributed by Benjamin Franklin, struck in the city where the Treaty of Paris was signed and issued in commemoration of American independence. This is a piece of history, and that’s why it’s so expensive. Heritage is in the process of auctioning an example in silver for over $300 thousand. There are 35 to 40 of the silver pieces, and this is one of the best surviving specimens and has a CAC sticker.
And no, the population of this piece is not ridiculous. Franklin had 200 of these pieces made in bronze, 50 in silver and two in gold for the king and queen of France. The bronze and silver mintages were high for the period. These medals are almost 250 years old. Having about 150 survivors is not ridiculous.
I'm talking about the population of the country not the population of the coin. Lol. That misreading alone betrays your bias that must if the AMERICAN POPULATION do not share.
And it's nice if you to make the choice for the person who wants both and tell him he still shouldn't buy the liberty bell. But maybe he can afford both and wants both. It's a false choice.
And, believe it or not, there are probably people who want the liberty bell and not the Libertas. Everyone makes their own choices.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
Then get ready for the shock of your life when these no market Liberty bells sell out at these very high prices.
Are they allocating 10% or more of these to dealers is the question, as they will be dumping them like hot potatoes if they do. If they aren't then the HHL of 1 will help hold prices high as it will distribute them and many won't be selling.
I will indeed be shocked if you turn out to be right about this, Same way I'll be shocked if your 10K Dan Carr HSN treasures end up holding their value.
@NJCoin said:
I will indeed be shocked if you turn out to be right about this, Same way I'll be shocked if your 10K Dan Carr HSN treasures end up holding their value.
Then have paramedics standing by on the first one.
Is the paperwork numbered?
Will PCGS slab the certificates?
Will the PCGS Liberty Bell Half OZ AG sell for more in a DCAM/PR70 FS holder
Or less in a DCAM/PR 69 FS holder?
I hope the mint sells the dies also... Cool die!
11X face........ I can think of other coins I could have for that amount, but to each his/her/they /them/their own I guess..
@NJCoin said:
I will indeed be shocked if you turn out to be right about this, Same way I'll be shocked if your 10K Dan Carr HSN treasures end up holding their value.
Then have paramedics standing by on the first one.
Will do!!!
I also hope you give me a little credit if it goes the other way.
@mach19 said:
How can you justify $750 for a half once of silver ?
I cannot !
You can't. It's $750 for a limited edition trinket.
Which I wish them a lot of luck with. But $32 worth of silver, or $64, or even $128, would not be a justification.
So don't get hung up on the de minimis amount of precious metal in the medal, because the price is not tied to that. Clearly.
^^This.
Clear your mind about how much precious metal you are purchasing. This is just a limited edition offering.
Is it worth the price? IMO - NO.
But who knows what will happen.
If you REALLY want one......then i dont think it's crazy to go after the silver at $750.
A painting just sold for $100 million. It's $50 worth of canvas and paint.
A more valid comparison would be: a Star Wars movie poster from 1977 just sold for $2000. It's about $2 of paper and ink.
Respectfully disagree. An original painting is not a comparison at all, because it's a one of a kind original, and is being sold for the art, not for the cost of the material, or the cost of the labor of the artist.
The Star Wars movie poster from 50 years ago has value because the franchise has a rabid fan base, because they were made for a legitimate commercial purpose, not to be instant, rare, very overpriced collectibles, and because very few likely survived.
The "more valid comparison" to this would be if 20th Century Fox made 1977 of them for sale to the public back in 1977, and sold them for $2,000 each, back then. The reaction then would likely have been very similar to our reaction now over these trinkets.
This is neither art, nor really a coin, nor bullion. It's an overpriced metallic depiction of an important artifact from the birth of the nation. It's not really special at all, although the Mint is certainly going to try to convince 2026 x3 people otherwise.
It's the US Mint's version of a PAMP Barbie, Stratocaster or Hot Wheels coin, with a similar mintage, and huge multiple of the price. I wish them luck.
@mach19 said:
How can you justify $750 for a half once of silver ?
I cannot !
You can't. It's $750 for a limited edition trinket.
Which I wish them a lot of luck with. But $32 worth of silver, or $64, or even $128, would not be a justification.
So don't get hung up on the de minimis amount of precious metal in the medal, because the price is not tied to that. Clearly.
^^This.
Clear your mind about how much precious metal you are purchasing. This is just a limited edition offering.
Is it worth the price? IMO - NO.
But who knows what will happen.
If you REALLY want one......then i dont think it's crazy to go after the silver at $750.
A painting just sold for $100 million. It's $50 worth of canvas and paint.
A more valid comparison would be: a Star Wars movie poster from 1977 just sold for $2000. It's about $2 of paper and ink.
Respectfully disagree. An original painting is not a comparison at all, because it's a one of a kind original, and is being sold for the art, not for the cost of the material, or the cost of the labor of whoever created it.
The Star Wars movie poster from 50 years ago has value because the franchise has a rabid fan base, because they were made for a legitimate commercial purpose, not to be instant, rare, very overpriced collectibles, and because very few likely survived.
The "more valid comparison" to this would be if 20th Century Fox made 1977 of them for sale to the public back in 1977, and sold them for $2,000 each. The reaction then would likely have been very similar to our reaction now over these trinkets.
You agree!!! Thank you!
The point is quite simply that you don't look at intrinsic value when buying things that aren't priced by intrinsic value. It has nothing to do with the edition size. You are being too literal with the metaphor. If you prefer to think, instead of originals, in terms of editions of serigraphs and lithographs, which can have editions larger than this coin and price tags higher than this coin.
There's also, since you mention Star Wars, many examples of limited edition comic art, comic art sculptures and posters. Many of these sell for multiple hundreds of dollars in editions of multiple thousands. FWIW.
No one should EVER buy a numismatic product from the Mint as a bullion product. They aren't and are not priced that way.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@mach19 said:
How can you justify $750 for a half once of silver ?
I cannot !
You can't. It's $750 for a limited edition trinket.
Which I wish them a lot of luck with. But $32 worth of silver, or $64, or even $128, would not be a justification.
So don't get hung up on the de minimis amount of precious metal in the medal, because the price is not tied to that. Clearly.
^^This.
Clear your mind about how much precious metal you are purchasing. This is just a limited edition offering.
Is it worth the price? IMO - NO.
But who knows what will happen.
If you REALLY want one......then i dont think it's crazy to go after the silver at $750.
A painting just sold for $100 million. It's $50 worth of canvas and paint.
A more valid comparison would be: a Star Wars movie poster from 1977 just sold for $2000. It's about $2 of paper and ink.
It's not a comparison. It's an observation that you don't price things by their intrinsic value when you purchase them. A human being has a couple hundred dollars worth of chemicals in them, will you sell me your children for $1000 each?
People on this forum are constantly talking about these numismatic products as though they are bullion investments. They are not intended to be and are not priced that way. The Mint makes a clear distinction between bullion and numismatic products. In fact, the Mint will not directly sell any bullion products to the general public, they are all sold through the ADs.
You don't price a Picasso based on the value of the canvas and oil. That is true whether it is an original or an engraving in an edition of 500.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@mach19 said:
How can you justify $750 for a half once of silver ?
I cannot !
You can't. It's $750 for a limited edition trinket.
Which I wish them a lot of luck with. But $32 worth of silver, or $64, or even $128, would not be a justification.
So don't get hung up on the de minimis amount of precious metal in the medal, because the price is not tied to that. Clearly.
^^This.
Clear your mind about how much precious metal you are purchasing. This is just a limited edition offering.
Is it worth the price? IMO - NO.
But who knows what will happen.
If you REALLY want one......then i dont think it's crazy to go after the silver at $750.
A painting just sold for $100 million. It's $50 worth of canvas and paint.
A more valid comparison would be: a Star Wars movie poster from 1977 just sold for $2000. It's about $2 of paper and ink.
Respectfully disagree. An original painting is not a comparison at all, because it's a one of a kind original, and is being sold for the art, not for the cost of the material, or the cost of the labor of whoever created it.
The Star Wars movie poster from 50 years ago has value because the franchise has a rabid fan base, because they were made for a legitimate commercial purpose, not to be instant, rare, very overpriced collectibles, and because very few likely survived.
The "more valid comparison" to this would be if 20th Century Fox made 1977 of them for sale to the public back in 1977, and sold them for $2,000 each. The reaction then would likely have been very similar to our reaction now over these trinkets.
You agree!!! Thank you!
The point is quite simply that you don't look at intrinsic value when buying things that aren't priced by intrinsic value. It has nothing to do with the edition size. You are being too literal with the metaphor. If you prefer to think, instead of originals, in terms of editions of serigraphs and lithographs, which can have editions larger than this coin and price tags higher than this coin.
There's also, since you mention Star Wars, many examples of limited edition comic art, comic art sculptures and posters. Many of these sell for multiple hundreds of dollars in editions of multiple thousands. FWIW.
No one should EVER buy a numismatic product from the Mint as a bullion product. They aren't and are not priced that way.
Yes, totally. That should go without saying when the price is so out of line with the intrinsic value!
In this case, I was just drawing the distinction between actual art and a movie poster that was really nothing more than a mass produced advertising medium.
A debate over whether original oil on canvass painting should be compared to glorified posters marketed as serigraphs and lithographs is another conversation for another day, since I do think the latter is comparable to what the mint is doing here, with respect to it being less about art and more about commerce.
Honestly, I just think this is just stupid. Trying to sell the usual crap they sell to us to the Stack's auction crowd by insanely reducing mintages. I just think it's too gimmicky to appeal to the people willing to pay up for a V75 AGE or FH Gold privy coin, and too expensive to appeal to anyone else.
I really think the best comparison is the Comic Art Coin & Medal Collection. Designs are attractive, and the mintages aren't crazy, but the pricing is out of line for what it is, so it sits. Like this will.
The "more valid comparison" to this would be if 20th Century Fox made 1977 of them for sale to the public back in 1977, and sold them for $2,000 each, back then. The reaction then would likely have been very similar to our reaction now over these trinkets.
Not really a good comparison - because in 1977 Star Wars was an unknown commodity - a new film where they did not know the huge following that would develop later....so they would never ask $2000
The USM has a following - and many thousands of loyal collectors.
The "more valid comparison" to this would be if 20th Century Fox made 1977 of them for sale to the public back in 1977, and sold them for $2,000 each, back then. The reaction then would likely have been very similar to our reaction now over these trinkets.
Not really a good comparison - because in 1977 Star Wars was an unknown commodity - a new film where they did not know the huge following that would develop later....so they would never ask $2000
The USM has a following - and many thousands of loyal collectors.
Not for something like this. The Mint never made a PAMP like trinket before.
And never tried to sell anything with a mintage like this at a price like this. No, this is EXACTLY like 20th Century Fox trying to sell movie posters for $2K in 1977. One ounce gold Liberty Bells for $20K. EXACTLY the same thing. Let's see how it goes.
And, by the way, it's not like the movie was a sleeper that took decades to develop a following. It was an immediate smash hit.
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Comments
Who would want to be a modern coin equivalent of Eliasberg and want everything the Mint produces?
What is the historical significance of that?
Buy what you like, what you want to collect, if you are so inclined, what will have likely value over time.
The MInt will never please everyone so why try? Because they develop product that does not appeal to you, don't take it so personal.
This is a tiny limited edition release that will not change your life.
Well yes, but now at least it will support the bloated administration that seems to be doing a very poor QC job, maybe they can afford a full time Denver superintendent now? Or perhaps some line QC people?
I think the reason people are taking it personally is because the Mint is pricing people out of the hobby across the board. Just look at the price of a basic uncirculated 2026 set. Not long ago it was < $50 and now it's $124.
Personally I think these bell medals are both unattractive and overpriced. I don't take it personal, I'm just ignoring it
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Respectfully, disagree. Auction items sell at the highest bid.
This is more like an eBay Buy It Now. Only with 2026 of the exact same item. Times 3. Being offered at absurd prices.
No, it's a cynical money grab. Not an auction of extremely rare and desirable items, with a pre-determined winning bid. Not unless they sell all 2026 times 3.
People here are assuming they will sell out. Because semisesquicentennial. Because US Mint. Because very low mintage.
As though everything the Mint offers sell out. At whatever price they dictate. TBD.
But there are multiple low mintage 2025 and 2026 gold numismatic offerings from the Mint that are currently available, weeks, months, and over a year after release that say I'm right and whoever at the Mint thought they could pull this off was wrong.
Probably the same geniuses that thought anything based on DC comic characters would be instant sell outs at any price. Pretty sure every single one of them is still available, in quantity.
People forget that supply is only one side of the supply/demand equation. Price anything high enough, and you kill demand. At the extreme, that makes any supply at all too much.
Almost certainly will with 4052 gold pieces priced at nearly 5x $4K per ounce gold, and with 2026 silver pieces priced at nearly 23x $66 silver. Might as well be 1/1000 ounce gold "bars" Mike Mezack offers on HSN at $50 each.
I'm always glad to hear your thoughts. Your opinion that it's more like an Ebay "Buy it Now" is spot-on. I forgot about that option when thinking this product over this morning.
It remains to be seen what happens with this, but I think the Mint is going for a different set of "new" buyers for this. Perhaps those with more money than they know what to do with, that normally don't purchase Mint product? We won't have buyer's clubs in on this one, but the major online dealers may try to grab some just to have in inventory for inventory's sake. It's a great test of how far the Mint can take it, and I'm here for it and anxious to see how they do. I wish them luck, but as you said......5 X's spot is way too far of a stretch for me. I'm not who they are after.
Do you (or anyone) know if dealers get a shot at this one first?
Totally agree that they are going for a new market here. I just happen to think it's a market that doesn't exist.
People with $20K to spend on a single new issue coin are generally far too sophisticated to be interested in trinkets like this. And regular folks who might otherwise be interested as a 250th souvenir will be priced out.
Huge swing and a miss here, as new management got too cute by half on this one. Should have stuck to usual mintages and usual pricing. This is going to be the same type of dud as the superhero coins, as nice as some of them are, where they priced themselves out of the market with the generous royalties they committed to pay DC.
As far as "shots" go, I don't think that will be relevant. I don't think dealers will want anything to do with them, for the reasons I outlined.
I'm not simply upset because I'm dying to have one and can't afford it. I really, truly think it's vastly overpriced crap, and that there won't be a secondary market for it. Our course, I can always be wrong, but if that's the case, why would any reseller want to tie up capital in it?
Moreover, there are not really enough for a meaningful Advance Release program. What would they do, offer each of the 20 or so Advance Release dealers 10 of them? To what end? So Mike can offer them on HSN at $50K each?
These one-off, low mintage, 250th collectables (love'em or hate'em) will be gone in less than 5 minutes.
I went back to read the original legislation that authorized this (and several other items) to see if the Director was boxed into a corner with mintage limits or pricing and I find nada. So, this is all on him and time will tell if this was a hit or the huge miss that many of us feel it will be.
For the price, it should come in the finest wooden box that money can buy. It doesn't appear that's the case. Looks cheap and regular. Same with the COA. I hope Mr Hollis finds time to sign 2026 notes to all buyers on this one. Auto-pen or not, that should be the case. He might also consider flying along with them and delivering the one OZ golds himself. LOL!
I’ll wait for the space flown liberty bell coin auction
Then get ready for the shock of your life when these no market Liberty bells sell out at these very high prices.
Are they allocating 10% or more of these to dealers is the question, as they will be dumping them like hot potatoes if they do. If they aren't then the HHL of 1 will help hold prices high as it will distribute them and many won't be selling.
I'm going to wait until they exceed the mintage limit and put me on back order.
I see you visited my ebay store.
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It's a coin-toss, but I'm leaning just a little more in your direction the more I read. My first reaction is the same as NJ, but I feel like this one could surprise a lot of us. If they put the full-court press on all over media-land leading up to release day, then I think they come out on the good side.
Yeah. Maybe. Or not. I think it's a tough call. On one hand, the price is astronomical and the mintages are fairly high. On the other hand, it is a novelty, even though other Mints have done it before, the US hasn't and it is the 250th.
I will not be surprised if they sell less than 500. I will also not be surprised if they sell out in 5 minutes.
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If the silver was also a coin it would be many multiples to its release price, but since it is a medal that may drop it down. The 2024 Flowing Hair silver medal Privy Mark at 1794 mintage sell for almost 5 grand. These are a 2026 mintage which is a few hundred higher at 2026.
I can see these going for up to 3 grand raw.
Insane. Beautiful coin, but not 4x spot. or 11x spot.
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At $19,000 you could buy a bronze Libertas Americana medal. It would have some problems, but the original mintage was 200, and the estimated number of survivors is 100 to 125.
Benjamin Franklin paid for these and he handed out some of them. It sure beats a modern "instant rarity," gimmicky mint product.
To YOU it does.
There's also no reason why someone can't have both.
To most of the population, BOTH of them seem ridiculous. And I'm sure quite a few people think the bronze is nore ridiculous then the gold at that price.
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When I saw those bells, a song popped into my head...
'70-'80s tune called RING MY BELL....can't remember the artist.
Anita Ward 1979. I was in 8th grade......sigh
Ring my Bell by Anita Ward 1979
You can ring my bell, ring my bell
Paying $1500 per ounce for silver is More than over the top! Buying a 1/2-ounce silver bar/slab from the mint is ridiculous for me. The asking price for the gold bells is even worse. I believe Scrooge McDuck would be happy with these prices.
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Great idea!
I strongly disagree. If some can afford both, the cost of a really nice one would be equal to the not so nice one plus the cost of the Mint Liberty Bell medal.
This medal was sponsored and distributed by Benjamin Franklin, struck in the city where the Treaty of Paris was signed and issued in commemoration of American independence. This is a piece of history, and that’s why it’s so expensive. Heritage is in the process of auctioning an example in silver for over $300 thousand. There are 35 to 40 of the silver pieces, and this is one of the best surviving specimens and has a CAC sticker.
And no, the population of this piece is not ridiculous. Franklin had 200 of these pieces made in bronze, 50 in silver and two in gold for the king and queen of France. The bronze and silver mintages were high for the period. These medals are almost 250 years old. Having about 150 survivors is not ridiculous.
I'm talking about the population of the country not the population of the coin. Lol. That misreading alone betrays your bias that must if the AMERICAN POPULATION do not share.
And it's nice if you to make the choice for the person who wants both and tell him he still shouldn't buy the liberty bell. But maybe he can afford both and wants both. It's a false choice.
And, believe it or not, there are probably people who want the liberty bell and not the Libertas. Everyone makes their own choices.
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I will indeed be shocked if you turn out to be right about this, Same way I'll be shocked if your 10K Dan Carr HSN treasures end up holding their value.
Not 11x spot. 23x spot. It's only a half ounce of silver.
Then have paramedics standing by on the first one.
Is the paperwork numbered?
Will PCGS slab the certificates?
Will the PCGS Liberty Bell Half OZ AG sell for more in a DCAM/PR70 FS holder
Or less in a DCAM/PR 69 FS holder?
I hope the mint sells the dies also... Cool die!
11X face........ I can think of other coins I could have for that amount, but to each his/her/they /them/their own I guess..
Will do!!!
I also hope you give me a little credit if it goes the other way.
How can you justify $750 for a half once of silver ?
I cannot !
i'd rather have the dies and collar
You can't. It's $750 for a limited edition trinket.
Which I wish them a lot of luck with. But $32 worth of silver, or $64, or even $128, would not be a justification.
So don't get hung up on the de minimis amount of precious metal in the medal, because the price is not tied to that. Clearly.
Maybe some bloke will end up with all of them! Then what?
^^This.
Clear your mind about how much precious metal you are purchasing. This is just a limited edition offering.
Is it worth the price? IMO - NO.
But who knows what will happen.
If you REALLY want one......then i dont think it's crazy to go after the silver at $750.
A painting just sold for $100 million. It's $50 worth of canvas and paint.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A more valid comparison would be: a Star Wars movie poster from 1977 just sold for $2000. It's about $2 of paper and ink.
Respectfully disagree. An original painting is not a comparison at all, because it's a one of a kind original, and is being sold for the art, not for the cost of the material, or the cost of the labor of the artist.
The Star Wars movie poster from 50 years ago has value because the franchise has a rabid fan base, because they were made for a legitimate commercial purpose, not to be instant, rare, very overpriced collectibles, and because very few likely survived.
The "more valid comparison" to this would be if 20th Century Fox made 1977 of them for sale to the public back in 1977, and sold them for $2,000 each, back then. The reaction then would likely have been very similar to our reaction now over these trinkets.
This is neither art, nor really a coin, nor bullion. It's an overpriced metallic depiction of an important artifact from the birth of the nation. It's not really special at all, although the Mint is certainly going to try to convince 2026 x3 people otherwise.
It's the US Mint's version of a PAMP Barbie, Stratocaster or Hot Wheels coin, with a similar mintage, and huge multiple of the price. I wish them luck.
You agree!!! Thank you!
The point is quite simply that you don't look at intrinsic value when buying things that aren't priced by intrinsic value. It has nothing to do with the edition size. You are being too literal with the metaphor. If you prefer to think, instead of originals, in terms of editions of serigraphs and lithographs, which can have editions larger than this coin and price tags higher than this coin.
There's also, since you mention Star Wars, many examples of limited edition comic art, comic art sculptures and posters. Many of these sell for multiple hundreds of dollars in editions of multiple thousands. FWIW.
No one should EVER buy a numismatic product from the Mint as a bullion product. They aren't and are not priced that way.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's not a comparison. It's an observation that you don't price things by their intrinsic value when you purchase them. A human being has a couple hundred dollars worth of chemicals in them, will you sell me your children for $1000 each?
People on this forum are constantly talking about these numismatic products as though they are bullion investments. They are not intended to be and are not priced that way. The Mint makes a clear distinction between bullion and numismatic products. In fact, the Mint will not directly sell any bullion products to the general public, they are all sold through the ADs.
You don't price a Picasso based on the value of the canvas and oil. That is true whether it is an original or an engraving in an edition of 500.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes, totally. That should go without saying when the price is so out of line with the intrinsic value!
In this case, I was just drawing the distinction between actual art and a movie poster that was really nothing more than a mass produced advertising medium.
A debate over whether original oil on canvass painting should be compared to glorified posters marketed as serigraphs and lithographs is another conversation for another day, since I do think the latter is comparable to what the mint is doing here, with respect to it being less about art and more about commerce.
Honestly, I just think this is just stupid. Trying to sell the usual crap they sell to us to the Stack's auction crowd by insanely reducing mintages. I just think it's too gimmicky to appeal to the people willing to pay up for a V75 AGE or FH Gold privy coin, and too expensive to appeal to anyone else.
I really think the best comparison is the Comic Art Coin & Medal Collection. Designs are attractive, and the mintages aren't crazy, but the pricing is out of line for what it is, so it sits. Like this will.
In other words, they have nothing to do with numismatics or numismatic art and everything to do with making a quick buck.
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FYI I won't be purchasing the painting also
I actually don’t think there is a comparison for this kind of grifting just my opinion
Not really a good comparison - because in 1977 Star Wars was an unknown commodity - a new film where they did not know the huge following that would develop later....so they would never ask $2000
The USM has a following - and many thousands of loyal collectors.
Here's my Liberty Bell silver medal from 1876
PCGS population is 1 in all grades, and NGC has just 3 in all grades!
Not for something like this. The Mint never made a PAMP like trinket before.
And never tried to sell anything with a mintage like this at a price like this. No, this is EXACTLY like 20th Century Fox trying to sell movie posters for $2K in 1977. One ounce gold Liberty Bells for $20K. EXACTLY the same thing. Let's see how it goes.
And, by the way, it's not like the movie was a sleeper that took decades to develop a following. It was an immediate smash hit.
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?