Many years ago, I hung out on an eBay related message board. In that time, situations such as yours came up and in the ones where the bidding page was either available for viewing online or a screenshot was available, there was a reasonable explanation for what happened.
Bottom line. I'm not making excuses. I offered you some possible explanations, you're free to disregard them if you like and if you never go to eBay again, that's okay with me.
From what I understand the snipping programs cut in at the last few seconds and execute bids a few cents over the high bid. By the time the on-line bidder knew about it, the auction was over. Bottom line, only losers bid live on eBay. You are second class bidders. The site should be called “SnipeBay.”
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Current price Bid increment
$0.01–$0.99 $0.05
$1.00–$4.99 $0.25
$5.00–$24.99 $0.50
$25.00–$99.99 $1.00
$100.00–$249.99 $2.50
$250.00–$499.99 $5.00
$500.00–$999.99 $10.00
$1000.00–$2499.99 $25.00
$2500.00–$4999.99 $50.00
$5000.00 and up $100.00
Occasionally you’ll see bids increase by less. This means that someone else placed a bid slightly higher than your automatic bid amount.
@BillJones said:
From what I understand the snipping programs cut in at the last few seconds and execute bids a few cents over the high bid.
Not possible. There's a bid increment that must be met if you bid after someone else has, and it's not "a few cents".
I think that's correct. But a pre-existing bid doesn't need to be a full increment above.
No, it doesn't.
Current high bid: $850, next bid must be $860. Bidder A bids $1000.11, current high bid goes to $860, next high bid must be $870. Last second Bidder B bids $1000, time runs out and Bidder A wins for $1000.11.
@BillJones said:
From what I understand the snipping programs cut in at the last few seconds and execute bids a few cents over the high bid.
Actually, the snipe bid is the maximum bid the bidder is willing to pay and eBay bids for the bidder up to that maximum bid. If you don't win, it's because someone was willing to pay more that you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@BillJones said:
From what I understand the snipping programs cut in at the last few seconds and execute bids a few cents over the high bid.
Not possible. There's a bid increment that must be met if you bid after someone else has, and it's not "a few cents".
I think that's correct. But a pre-existing bid doesn't need to be a full increment above. So, I'd be curious as to when Bill Jones placed his bid.
Probably about four years ago. I was piqued off at the time, and then moved on. I eventually acquired another example of the piece which was a CWT.
I was told, “You are the high bidder” when the lot closed. Then a snip flew in at less than a dollar above my bid, I was cut out with no recourse. This hobby is for fun. eBay is not fun.
** EBay auctions** … neveragain. I have bought one thing via “Buy it now.”
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I have no idea about how eBay's website might happen to generate a response to display on your computer when you bid but if you are the high bidder at $2500, the next allowable bid would be $2550. if "a snip flew in at less than a dollar above my bid", that bid was made BEFORE yours was, not after.
@BillJones said:
From what I understand the snipping programs cut in at the last few seconds and execute bids a few cents over the high bid.
Actually, the snipe bid is the maximum bid the bidder is willing to pay and eBay bids for the bidder up to that maximum bid. If you don't win, it's because someone was willing to pay more that you.
In a regular suction, you have opportunity to bid again. At eBay the auction closes on you, and the super bidders, a.k.a. “Snipers” get to bid, and you cannot respond.
I’m done with this topic. If you want bid on eBay go ahead. Their auction is dead to me.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@MasonG said:
I have no idea about how eBay's website might happen to generate a response to display on your computer when you bid but if you are the high bidder at $2500, the next allowable bid would be $2550. if "a snip flew in at less than a dollar above my bid", that bid was made BEFORE yours was, not after.
Idk. What happens if two snipes come in at the end? Do they execute the bigger one regardless of increment? Seems unlikely if he was already at $2500, but I'm not prone to question what he saw.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
What happens if two snipes come in at the end?
I can't say for sure, but I don't see why it would be any different than processing two bids that come in close together during the middle of the auction. I would presume each bid is processed in the order received to resolve each current bidder's standing at the point that bid was made and then on to the next bid received.
@jmlanzaf said:
Seems unlikely if he was already at $2500, but I'm not prone to question what he saw.
I'm not questioning what he saw. I am, however, suspicious of a claim that eBay would accept a new bid of $2500.11 when the current bid is $2500. The simplest explanation is that the 11 cent higher bid was made before Bill's but was not exposed until Bill made his bid.
An aside for people who still use eBay- this is an example of why not to bid in round figures. If you think a coin is worth $2500, it's not hard to imagine that others might, too. In this case, figuring a high bid of $2500 and then adding 1% (more or less) to it would have resulted in a win. An extra $15-$20 on a $2500 purchase isn't going to break the bank.
@jmlanzaf said:
What happens if two snipes come in at the end?
I can't say for sure, but I don't see why it would be any different than processing two bids that come in close together during the middle of the auction. I would presume each bid is processed in the order received to resolve each current bidder's standing at the point that bid was made and then on to the next bid received.
@jmlanzaf said:
Seems unlikely if he was already at $2500, but I'm not prone to question what he saw.
I'm not questioning what he saw. I am, however, suspicious of a claim that eBay would accept a new bid of $2500.11 when the current bid is $2500. The simplest explanation is that the 11 cent higher bid was made before Bill's but was not exposed until Bill made his bid.
An aside for people who still use eBay- this is an example of why not to bid in round figures. If you think a coin is worth $2500, it's not hard to imagine that others might, too. In this case, figuring a high bid of $2500 and then adding 1% (more or less) to it would have resulted in a win. An extra $15-$20 on a $2500 purchase isn't going to break the bank.
Actually, that strategy works elsewhere, including Heritage. It's also a good reason to bid early on widgets. Once the live auction starts, you are limited to increment and half increments, but not prior. So, for example, if you have a coin worth $500, you might win it with an early bid of 511 but you have to be at 525 or 550 during the live auction.
For people who don't understand not bidding early, a major dealer once bought an 1804 dollar and flipped it. His early bid held but he sold it for less than an increment higher. The increments get significant on 7 figure coins. Even for lesser numbers. It is important to be the first one to the right number. When everyone knows the "right number", you're not going to be able to snipe it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
@ProofCollection said:
When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset?
I would suspect most everybody would, in that case, prefer to have a chance to respond and bid another penny higher for the win.
Now, suppose you have the chance to make that one penny incremental bid- would you want the person you're outbidding by a penny to have the option to respond to your bid, and once again, beat you out by a penny?
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
Ebay and Heritage do not enforce increments on pre-existing bids and, IIRC, neither does GC. You have to go an increment above the posted bid. If, on the other hand, I bid $101 at the open and you are staring at a $90 bid, you have to bid $100 (or cut bid), BUT your $100 bid makes my proxy $101 bid the high bid. Stacks actually enforces the increments throughout the bidding, but the other sites allow you to enter odd bids during the pre-bidding.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
Agreed. One point to keep in mind is that a bid has to meet a minimum increment requirement only once, when it is first made. Later on, if another bidder enters a bid less than an increment under that earlier bid, the earlier bid becomes the new high bid even though it is less than an increment higher.
For example:
A bids $800, and the increment is, say, $25.
B bids $1000.11, and becomes the high bidder at $825.
C (who might be the same as A) bids $1000, at which point the increment probably goes higher, say, to $50. But B's earlier max bid, though less than $1050, becomes the new high bid.
Also, some companies calculate the next acceptable bid as the current high bid plus the current increment, while others stick to a strict increment schedule. Thus at some venues, in my example, the next acceptable bid would be $1050.11, and at others it would be $1050.
And some venues accept only whole dollar bids.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
Regardless of how bid increments are managed, you're told by the auction company what the next acceptable bid is. There aren't any that have you bid and then tell you "No, that's not enough. Try again.", are there?
Note that I'm not talking about bidding high enough to win, but high enough to have your bid accepted. It's up to you to decide what sort of bidding strategy to employ after that.
I bid in advance on items I am interested in just so they pop up on my watchlist a few days before they end. I may have glanced over something weeks ago and then forgot all about it the weekend it closes. Just serves as a placeholder/reminder in my case. THKS!
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@MasonG said:
Regardless of how bid increments are managed, you're told by the auction company what the next acceptable bid is. There aren't any that have you bid and then tell you "No, that's not enough. Try again.", are there?
Note that I'm not talking about bidding high enough to win, but high enough to have your bid accepted. It's up to you to decide what sort of bidding strategy to employ after that.
Yes. They will tell you if your bid is below the increment when the increment is in effect. It won't expose the mid range bid by telling you that you have to go higher until it is exposed. What i mean is, if I bid 901 and I'm the high bidder at 850 and you come in at 900, I'll be the high bidder at 901. It won't tell you that you need to go to 950.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
What i mean is, if I bid 901 and I'm the high bidder at 850 and you come in at 900, I'll be the high bidder at 901. It won't tell you that you need to go to 950.
Sure, and IMO, it shouldn't. The house should never tell you how much you need to bid in order to beat the current high bid, only what you need to bid to reach the next increment. Again, IMO.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
Ebay and Heritage do not enforce increments on pre-existing bids and, IIRC, neither does GC. You have to go an increment above the posted bid. If, on the other hand, I bid $101 at the open and you are staring at a $90 bid, you have to bid $100 (or cut bid), BUT your $100 bid makes my proxy $101 bid the high bid. Stacks actually enforces the increments throughout the bidding, but the other sites allow you to enter odd bids during the pre-bidding.
It's semantics, but what you are saying is that ebay an HA have "open" bidding, but they still enforce increments as your bid will never be accepted if it is less than one increment higher than the current high bid. Thus I consider it that they enforce increments.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
Ebay and Heritage do not enforce increments on pre-existing bids and, IIRC, neither does GC. You have to go an increment above the posted bid. If, on the other hand, I bid $101 at the open and you are staring at a $90 bid, you have to bid $100 (or cut bid), BUT your $100 bid makes my proxy $101 bid the high bid. Stacks actually enforces the increments throughout the bidding, but the other sites allow you to enter odd bids during the pre-bidding.
It's semantics, but what you are saying is that ebay an HA have "open" bidding, but they still enforce increments as your bid will never be accepted if it is less than one increment higher than the current high bid. Thus I consider it that they enforce increments.
That is not exactly correct as you state it, though it is slightly semantic. If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not. That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not.
There's not really much you can do about that if you allow open bidding. How can an earlier bidder be expected to make a bid that accounts for an amount that a later bidder will choose to enter? They can't.
@jmlanzaf said:
That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
I don't know... seems to me, the purpose of a bid increment is to keep people from responding to a current high bid with their own bid that's just pennies more.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
Ebay and Heritage do not enforce increments on pre-existing bids and, IIRC, neither does GC. You have to go an increment above the posted bid. If, on the other hand, I bid $101 at the open and you are staring at a $90 bid, you have to bid $100 (or cut bid), BUT your $100 bid makes my proxy $101 bid the high bid. Stacks actually enforces the increments throughout the bidding, but the other sites allow you to enter odd bids during the pre-bidding.
It's semantics, but what you are saying is that ebay an HA have "open" bidding, but they still enforce increments as your bid will never be accepted if it is less than one increment higher than the current high bid. Thus I consider it that they enforce increments.
That is not exactly correct as you state it, though it is slightly semantic. If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not. That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
Again, semantics, but If your high bid was $901, and the current bid is $850 with an increment of $50, Not only is the minimum bid it will accept from me $900 (thus enforcing the limit). When I bid $900 you will be the high bidder at $901. If I bid again, I will have to bid $951, again "enforcing" an increment.
@ProofCollection said:
When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset?
I would suspect most everybody would, in that case, prefer to have a chance to respond and bid another penny higher for the win.
But that's not how it works, All bids have to be higher by a full increment. So per the rules of the game, the counter strategy is to bid earlier, bid higher, or bid again.
@jmlanzaf said:
If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not.
There's not really much you can do about that if you allow open bidding. How can an earlier bidder be expected to make a bid that accounts for an amount that a later bidder will choose to enter? They can't.
@jmlanzaf said:
That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
I don't know... seems to me, the purpose of a bid increment is to keep people from responding to a current high bid with their own bid that's just pennies more.
The purpose of increments is to prevent someone from executing a bid too close to the prior bid. If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
Stacks prevents this by requiring bid entered at any time to fall on an increment. The increments are all known based on the starting bid.
I exploit it all the time and I'm not exactly leading a revolution. Lol. The only reason I brought it up here is because it exists and is a very good reason to bid early. Some people struggled with why some would ever do that.
For a gold coin with 4400 intrinsic, for example, you could win it at 4255 with an early bid that would force the bevy bigger to go to 4500. (Ignoring BP for simplicity.) You could not pull that off unless you're the first one to 4255. And, in the case of Heritage, you.couldn't even enter such a bid when that auction is live and the increments are enforced.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Walkerfan said:
I can understand being frustrated by 'SNIPES' but I usually bid strong, so if someone snipes me, then they're gonna pay up. Sniping is also 'good', b/c the underbidder doesn't get an opportunity to go HIGHER, as he might in a soft auction close setting.
And if you lose $1000 coin by 11 cents, who cares?
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
Ebay and Heritage do not enforce increments on pre-existing bids and, IIRC, neither does GC. You have to go an increment above the posted bid. If, on the other hand, I bid $101 at the open and you are staring at a $90 bid, you have to bid $100 (or cut bid), BUT your $100 bid makes my proxy $101 bid the high bid. Stacks actually enforces the increments throughout the bidding, but the other sites allow you to enter odd bids during the pre-bidding.
It's semantics, but what you are saying is that ebay an HA have "open" bidding, but they still enforce increments as your bid will never be accepted if it is less than one increment higher than the current high bid. Thus I consider it that they enforce increments.
That is not exactly correct as you state it, though it is slightly semantic. If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not. That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
Again, semantics, but If your high bid was $901, and the current bid is $850 with an increment of $50, Not only is the minimum bid it will accept from me $900 (thus enforcing the limit). When I bid $900 you will be the high bidder at $901. If I bid again, I will have to bid $951, again "enforcing" an increment.
@ProofCollection said:
When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset?
I would suspect most everybody would, in that case, prefer to have a chance to respond and bid another penny higher for the win.
But that's not how it works, All bids have to be higher by a full increment. So per the rules of the game, the counter strategy is to bid earlier, bid higher, or bid again.
Actually, 950 would be allowed at some venues as they force you to get back on the increments.
Actually, here's a couple of screenshot from Heritage. Notice they are currently "off the increment" but they are allowing bids of LESS THAN THE INCREMENT to get you back on the increment.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
$10,000.11 is the high bid. Is it fair that you are allowed to bid so close to it?
edited to add... Suppose you're the one who made the $10,000.11 bid instead. Would you like to get a notice from the auction house that it's been increased to $11,000 because somebody else bid $10,000?
@jmlanzaf said:
If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
$10,000.11 is the high bid. Is it fair that you are allowed to bid so close to it?
edited to add... Suppose you're the one who made the $10,000.11 bid instead. Would you like to get a notice from the auction house that it's been increased to $11,000 because somebody else bid $10,000?
As long as the bidding parameters are made clear and applied equally, I see nothing unfair about one bidder being barely outbid by another. Perhaps next time, the loser by a few cents will be the winner by a similar amount.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@jmlanzaf said:
If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not.
There's not really much you can do about that if you allow open bidding. How can an earlier bidder be expected to make a bid that accounts for an amount that a later bidder will choose to enter? They can't.
@jmlanzaf said:
That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
I don't know... seems to me, the purpose of a bid increment is to keep people from responding to a current high bid with their own bid that's just pennies more.
The purpose of increments is to prevent someone from executing a bid too close to the prior bid. If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
Yes, but the prior bid was already executed. There was already a higher bid and you did not exceed it. I think that's the part that's being overlooked is that the prior bid was placed long before yours.
Auctions are a game just like many other aspects of life. If you understand the rules you'll implement counter strategies and you learn not to just bid $10k even. I completely take this into account when I place my bids and thus I am at peace if I were to try to save a few cents and bid only $10,000,05 in your example and am left with the option of going up another full increment.
Stacks prevents this by requiring bid entered at any time to fall on an increment. The increments are all known based on the starting bid.
I exploit it all the time and I'm not exactly leading a revolution. Lol. The only reason I brought it up here is because it exists and is a very good reason to bid early. Some people struggled with why some would ever do that.
For a gold coin with 4400 intrinsic, for example, you could win it at 4255 with an early bid that would force the bevy bigger to go to 4500. (Ignoring BP for simplicity.) You could not pull that off unless you're the first one to 4255. And, in the case of Heritage, you.couldn't even enter such a bid when that auction is live and the increments are enforced.
Yep, I do the same also. It's on the bidder to understand the rules and use them to their advantage.
@jmlanzaf said:
If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
$10,000.11 is the high bid. Is it fair that you are allowed to bid so close to it?
edited to add... Suppose you're the one who made the $10,000.11 bid instead. Would you like to get a notice from the auction house that it's been increased to $11,000 because somebody else bid $10,000?
As long as the bidding parameters are made clear and applied equally, I see nothing unfair about one bidder being barely outbid by another.
I don't either. Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment.
@jmlanzaf said:
If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
$10,000.11 is the high bid. Is it fair that you are allowed to bid so close to it?
edited to add... Suppose you're the one who made the $10,000.11 bid instead. Would you like to get a notice from the auction house that it's been increased to $11,000 because somebody else bid $10,000?
As long as the bidding parameters are made clear and applied equally, I see nothing unfair about one bidder being barely outbid by another.
I don't either. Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment.
Look at my screen shots
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Ok- I see them now. The images show up larger than my computer screen and I scrolled past them. Sorry about that.
I will amend my previous claim...
"Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment."
to...
"Both bidders either met or exceeded the displayed next minimum bid amount."
I spent some time with ChatGPT investigating why the auctions you posted had bids like shown in your images but to be honest, it was getting too far off into the weeds for me and I gave up in order to spend time on something else.
@jmlanzaf said:
If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
$10,000.11 is the high bid. Is it fair that you are allowed to bid so close to it?
edited to add... Suppose you're the one who made the $10,000.11 bid instead. Would you like to get a notice from the auction house that it's been increased to $11,000 because somebody else bid $10,000?
As long as the bidding parameters are made clear and applied equally, I see nothing unfair about one bidder being barely outbid by another.
I don't either. Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment.
Ok- I see them now. The images show up larger than my computer screen and I scrolled past them. Sorry about that.
I will amend my previous claim...
"Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment."
to...
"Both bidders either met or exceeded the displayed next minimum bid amount."
I spent some time with ChatGPT investigating why the auctions you posted had bids like shown in your images but to be honest, it was getting too far off into the weeds for me and I gave up in order to spend time on something else.
It is what it is. It's the same rules for everyone, so it's "fair". But I know what Bill means with hard close auctions. At least with heritage, you always have a chance to bid the next increment. With sniping, you could lose by 11 cents without the opportunity to place another bid.
I kind of think it's ironic that "true collectors" like hard close auctions and sniping. Aren't they the ones who really WANT the coin for their sheer love of coins? They have a better chance to acquire such coins with a soft close.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
With sniping, you could lose by 11 cents without the opportunity to place another bid.
Or you could win by 11 cents leaving your competition without the opportunity to place another bid.
Most bidders are okay with Door #2, but don't care much for Door #1. Funny, that.
My advice (FWIW, anyway) to bidders who want the ability to respond to being outbid is to bid early and don't rely on sniping.
@jmlanzaf said:
I kind of think it's ironic that "true collectors" like hard close auctions and sniping. Aren't they the ones who really WANT the coin for their sheer love of coins? They have a better chance to acquire such coins with a soft close.
But they'll probably have to pay more for them. So there's that...
Comments
Many years ago, I hung out on an eBay related message board. In that time, situations such as yours came up and in the ones where the bidding page was either available for viewing online or a screenshot was available, there was a reasonable explanation for what happened.
Bottom line. I'm not making excuses. I offered you some possible explanations, you're free to disregard them if you like and if you never go to eBay again, that's okay with me.
From what I understand the snipping programs cut in at the last few seconds and execute bids a few cents over the high bid. By the time the on-line bidder knew about it, the auction was over. Bottom line, only losers bid live on eBay. You are second class bidders. The site should be called “SnipeBay.”
Not possible. There's a bid increment that must be met if you bid after someone else has, and it's not "a few cents".
Current price Bid increment
$0.01–$0.99 $0.05
$1.00–$4.99 $0.25
$5.00–$24.99 $0.50
$25.00–$99.99 $1.00
$100.00–$249.99 $2.50
$250.00–$499.99 $5.00
$500.00–$999.99 $10.00
$1000.00–$2499.99 $25.00
$2500.00–$4999.99 $50.00
$5000.00 and up $100.00
Occasionally you’ll see bids increase by less. This means that someone else placed a bid slightly higher than your automatic bid amount.
https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/bidding/automatic-bidding?id=4014
I think that's correct. But a pre-existing bid doesn't need to be a full increment above. So, I'd be curious as to when Bill Jones placed his bid.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No, it doesn't.
Current high bid: $850, next bid must be $860. Bidder A bids $1000.11, current high bid goes to $860, next high bid must be $870. Last second Bidder B bids $1000, time runs out and Bidder A wins for $1000.11.
Actually, the snipe bid is the maximum bid the bidder is willing to pay and eBay bids for the bidder up to that maximum bid. If you don't win, it's because someone was willing to pay more that you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Probably about four years ago. I was piqued off at the time, and then moved on. I eventually acquired another example of the piece which was a CWT.
I was told, “You are the high bidder” when the lot closed. Then a snip flew in at less than a dollar above my bid, I was cut out with no recourse. This hobby is for fun. eBay is not fun.
** EBay auctions** … never again. I have bought one thing via “Buy it now.”
I have no idea about how eBay's website might happen to generate a response to display on your computer when you bid but if you are the high bidder at $2500, the next allowable bid would be $2550. if "a snip flew in at less than a dollar above my bid", that bid was made BEFORE yours was, not after.
In a regular suction, you have opportunity to bid again. At eBay the auction closes on you, and the super bidders, a.k.a. “Snipers” get to bid, and you cannot respond.
I’m done with this topic. If you want bid on eBay go ahead. Their auction is dead to me.
Idk. What happens if two snipes come in at the end? Do they execute the bigger one regardless of increment? Seems unlikely if he was already at $2500, but I'm not prone to question what he saw.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I can't say for sure, but I don't see why it would be any different than processing two bids that come in close together during the middle of the auction. I would presume each bid is processed in the order received to resolve each current bidder's standing at the point that bid was made and then on to the next bid received.
I'm not questioning what he saw. I am, however, suspicious of a claim that eBay would accept a new bid of $2500.11 when the current bid is $2500. The simplest explanation is that the 11 cent higher bid was made before Bill's but was not exposed until Bill made his bid.
An aside for people who still use eBay- this is an example of why not to bid in round figures. If you think a coin is worth $2500, it's not hard to imagine that others might, too. In this case, figuring a high bid of $2500 and then adding 1% (more or less) to it would have resulted in a win. An extra $15-$20 on a $2500 purchase isn't going to break the bank.
Actually, that strategy works elsewhere, including Heritage. It's also a good reason to bid early on widgets. Once the live auction starts, you are limited to increment and half increments, but not prior. So, for example, if you have a coin worth $500, you might win it with an early bid of 511 but you have to be at 525 or 550 during the live auction.
For people who don't understand not bidding early, a major dealer once bought an 1804 dollar and flipped it. His early bid held but he sold it for less than an increment higher. The increments get significant on 7 figure coins. Even for lesser numbers. It is important to be the first one to the right number. When everyone knows the "right number", you're not going to be able to snipe it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
In the end, if someone beats you by $.11and you are upset, you have to realize that you didn't have your true high bid entered and you bid less than what you were really willing to pay. When you enter your highest bid, it's essential to ask yourself, if I get outbid by $.01 will I be upset? If yes, then you're bidding less than you're willing to pay and should be prepared to accept the consequences.
I think the category of "aspirational bids" has been ignored. Sure it's a waste of time, but surely we have all fantasized about winning 1oz gold coins for the starting bid.
The point is that bidding increments exist for fairness. Not enforcing them is not about you not entering your max bid,
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I have yet to encounter a platform that does not "enforce" bid increments. People making this claim probably don't understand how the bidding works.
The online auctions I'm familiar with all tell prospective bidders right on the bidding page what the minimum acceptable bid is.
I would suspect most everybody would, in that case, prefer to have a chance to respond and bid another penny higher for the win.
Now, suppose you have the chance to make that one penny incremental bid- would you want the person you're outbidding by a penny to have the option to respond to your bid, and once again, beat you out by a penny?
I would suspect most everybody wouldn't.
Ebay and Heritage do not enforce increments on pre-existing bids and, IIRC, neither does GC. You have to go an increment above the posted bid. If, on the other hand, I bid $101 at the open and you are staring at a $90 bid, you have to bid $100 (or cut bid), BUT your $100 bid makes my proxy $101 bid the high bid. Stacks actually enforces the increments throughout the bidding, but the other sites allow you to enter odd bids during the pre-bidding.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Agreed. One point to keep in mind is that a bid has to meet a minimum increment requirement only once, when it is first made. Later on, if another bidder enters a bid less than an increment under that earlier bid, the earlier bid becomes the new high bid even though it is less than an increment higher.
For example:
A bids $800, and the increment is, say, $25.
B bids $1000.11, and becomes the high bidder at $825.
C (who might be the same as A) bids $1000, at which point the increment probably goes higher, say, to $50. But B's earlier max bid, though less than $1050, becomes the new high bid.
Also, some companies calculate the next acceptable bid as the current high bid plus the current increment, while others stick to a strict increment schedule. Thus at some venues, in my example, the next acceptable bid would be $1050.11, and at others it would be $1050.
And some venues accept only whole dollar bids.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
Regardless of how bid increments are managed, you're told by the auction company what the next acceptable bid is. There aren't any that have you bid and then tell you "No, that's not enough. Try again.", are there?
Note that I'm not talking about bidding high enough to win, but high enough to have your bid accepted. It's up to you to decide what sort of bidding strategy to employ after that.
I bid in advance on items I am interested in just so they pop up on my watchlist a few days before they end. I may have glanced over something weeks ago and then forgot all about it the weekend it closes. Just serves as a placeholder/reminder in my case. THKS!
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Yes. They will tell you if your bid is below the increment when the increment is in effect. It won't expose the mid range bid by telling you that you have to go higher until it is exposed. What i mean is, if I bid 901 and I'm the high bidder at 850 and you come in at 900, I'll be the high bidder at 901. It won't tell you that you need to go to 950.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/919784/how-to-bid-on-heritage-in-1-00-increments
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Sure, and IMO, it shouldn't. The house should never tell you how much you need to bid in order to beat the current high bid, only what you need to bid to reach the next increment. Again, IMO.
It's semantics, but what you are saying is that ebay an HA have "open" bidding, but they still enforce increments as your bid will never be accepted if it is less than one increment higher than the current high bid. Thus I consider it that they enforce increments.
That is not exactly correct as you state it, though it is slightly semantic. If you bid 900, my prior bid of 901 will be entered over the top of your 900. Sure, when i entered it, it was more than one increment over the high bid at that time. But when it's executed, it is not. That essentially undermine the purpose of having the increments.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There's not really much you can do about that if you allow open bidding. How can an earlier bidder be expected to make a bid that accounts for an amount that a later bidder will choose to enter? They can't.
I don't know... seems to me, the purpose of a bid increment is to keep people from responding to a current high bid with their own bid that's just pennies more.
Again, semantics, but If your high bid was $901, and the current bid is $850 with an increment of $50, Not only is the minimum bid it will accept from me $900 (thus enforcing the limit). When I bid $900 you will be the high bidder at $901. If I bid again, I will have to bid $951, again "enforcing" an increment.
But that's not how it works, All bids have to be higher by a full increment. So per the rules of the game, the counter strategy is to bid earlier, bid higher, or bid again.
The purpose of increments is to prevent someone from executing a bid too close to the prior bid. If it really "fair" that my $10,000 bid loses to a bid of $10,000.11?
Stacks prevents this by requiring bid entered at any time to fall on an increment. The increments are all known based on the starting bid.
I exploit it all the time and I'm not exactly leading a revolution. Lol. The only reason I brought it up here is because it exists and is a very good reason to bid early. Some people struggled with why some would ever do that.
For a gold coin with 4400 intrinsic, for example, you could win it at 4255 with an early bid that would force the bevy bigger to go to 4500. (Ignoring BP for simplicity.) You could not pull that off unless you're the first one to 4255. And, in the case of Heritage, you.couldn't even enter such a bid when that auction is live and the increments are enforced.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Actually, 950 would be allowed at some venues as they force you to get back on the increments.
Actually, here's a couple of screenshot from Heritage. Notice they are currently "off the increment" but they are allowing bids of LESS THAN THE INCREMENT to get you back on the increment.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
$10,000.11 is the high bid. Is it fair that you are allowed to bid so close to it?
edited to add... Suppose you're the one who made the $10,000.11 bid instead. Would you like to get a notice from the auction house that it's been increased to $11,000 because somebody else bid $10,000?
As long as the bidding parameters are made clear and applied equally, I see nothing unfair about one bidder being barely outbid by another. Perhaps next time, the loser by a few cents will be the winner by a similar amount.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, but the prior bid was already executed. There was already a higher bid and you did not exceed it. I think that's the part that's being overlooked is that the prior bid was placed long before yours.
Auctions are a game just like many other aspects of life. If you understand the rules you'll implement counter strategies and you learn not to just bid $10k even. I completely take this into account when I place my bids and thus I am at peace if I were to try to save a few cents and bid only $10,000,05 in your example and am left with the option of going up another full increment.
Yep, I do the same also. It's on the bidder to understand the rules and use them to their advantage.
I don't either. Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment.
Look at my screen shots
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Ok- I see them now. The images show up larger than my computer screen and I scrolled past them. Sorry about that.
I will amend my previous claim...
"Anyway, in the scenario presented, both bidders either met or exceeded the current bid increment."
to...
"Both bidders either met or exceeded the displayed next minimum bid amount."
I spent some time with ChatGPT investigating why the auctions you posted had bids like shown in your images but to be honest, it was getting too far off into the weeds for me and I gave up in order to spend time on something else.
Look at my screen shots> @MasonG said:
It is what it is. It's the same rules for everyone, so it's "fair". But I know what Bill means with hard close auctions. At least with heritage, you always have a chance to bid the next increment. With sniping, you could lose by 11 cents without the opportunity to place another bid.
I kind of think it's ironic that "true collectors" like hard close auctions and sniping. Aren't they the ones who really WANT the coin for their sheer love of coins? They have a better chance to acquire such coins with a soft close.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Or you could win by 11 cents leaving your competition without the opportunity to place another bid.
Most bidders are okay with Door #2, but don't care much for Door #1. Funny, that.
My advice (FWIW, anyway) to bidders who want the ability to respond to being outbid is to bid early and don't rely on sniping.
But they'll probably have to pay more for them. So there's that...