Which items still carry premiums?
JayDubya
Posts: 50 ✭✭✭
My apologies if you think I'm beating a dead horse here.
I'm in a position where I'm going to begin selling.
I have a lot of foreign gold that will likely sell for melt. Most of them are common coins. A lot raw many in PCGS or NGC plastic but at common grades.
However, I have other items that I'm hesitant to sell at melt because some of the items that I thought would hold a premium "forever" (I don't want to say forever but I think y'all know I'm exaggerating to make a point) are now questionable, borderline or just flat out NOT holding a premium anymore.
Some of the following I'm pretty sure still hold a premium. Others I'm unsure of.
I would like to get the opinion of others here IF you don't mind.
What is your best estimate as to an appropriate premium on these items?
It is NOT my intention to waste the time of anyone here on the forum so therefore if you don't want to scroll through these then by all means, please don't. Move onto the next topic and allow the others who are willing to do so.
Thanks in advance to those who are willing to take a moment and give a response.
I sincerely appreciate you doing so.
I assume these in the first group still carry a premium, but has it shrunk considerably?
What is your best estimate as to an appropriate premium on these items?
Let's start with these:
First series 1996 Australia Lunar Series One 1/10 OZ Gold Set
First series 1999 Australia Lunar 1 OZ Silver Set
1999 Australia Lunar Rabbit 1 Kilo
1999 Australia Lunar Rabbit 1 OZ Gold
2009 Australia 1/4 Troy Ounce Year of the Ox
2009 Australia 1/10 Troy Ounce Year of the Ox
Gold Libertads, regardless of size
Mexico 50 Peso Gold Coin
Mexico 20 Peso Gold Coin
Moving onto pre 1933 gold:
1890 S $20 Liberty NGC MS61
1910 $5 Indian NGC MS61
1907 $20 Saint Gaudens PCGS MS62
1847 $10 Liberty PCGS AU53
1881 $10 Liberty PCGS AU58
1894 $10 Liberty PCGS MS62
1907 $10 Liberty PCGS MS62
1915 $2.5 Indian PCGS AU55
1907 $10 Gold Indian No Motto PCGS MS63
1936 S Texas Commemorative Half Dollar PCGS MS66 (OGH)
1937-D Oregon Commemorative Half Dollar PCGS MS66 CAC Green Sticker
Do premiums remain? Have they shrunk considerably?
Graded Morgans are next:
1884 CC Morgan Dollar NGC MS63 IN Govt Packaging
1884 CC Morgan Dollar IN Govt Packaging
1884 CC Morgan Dollar IN Govt Plastic but no box
1880-CC PCGS MS64 MORGAN, 8/LOW 7, VAM 6, TOP 100 VAM, GSA
1899 O Morgan PCGS MS65+
1888 Morgan PCGS MS64
1900 O Morgan PCGS MS66
1899 O Morgan PCGS MS65
1904 O Morgan NGC MS66
1880 S Morgan ANACS Photo Cert MS63/67
1886 Morgan ANACS MS65 VAM 3 Old ANACS holder
1899 O Morgan NGC MS65 VAM 10 Slanted Date Slanted MM TONED
1897 Morgan In Paramount / Redfield Holder
1886 Morgan In Paramount Holder
1883 O Morgan In Paramount Holder
1899 O Morgan In Paramount Holder
1886 Morgan In Paramount Holder
1886 O Morgan NCG MS66 (Not NGC) took a chance on a decent looking coin for the date in an off-name holder
How about sets like:
1996 Proof Sovereign 4 coin Set
1995 Proof Sovereign 4 coin Set
Great Britain Elizabeth II 3-Piece Uncertified gold Proof Set 1993
Great Britain Elizabeth II 4-Piece Uncertified gold Proof "Britannia" Set 1994
China: People's Republic 5-Piece Lot of Certified gold Panda Issues 2014 MS70 PCGS 1st Strike
China: People's Republic 3 Piece Lot of Certified gold & silver Proof "Endangered Wildlife" Issues 1989 PR68 Ultra Cameo NGC
China: People's Republic 6 Piece Certified gold & colorized silver "Beijing Olympics" Yuan Proof Set 2008 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC
China: People's Republic 5 Piece Lot of Certified gold Panda Issues 2013 MS70 PCGS 1st Strike
China: People's Republic Two-Piece Certified gold & silver "Year of the Dragon" Proof Set 2012 PR69 Ultra Cameo NGC
Cook Islands: Elizabeth II Two-Piece Certified gold & silver "Ronald Reagan" Set 2004 NGC
Great Britain Elizabeth II Three-Piece Certified gold "Sapphire Anniversary" Issues 2018
1992 Proof Sovereign in original packaging only 4772 minted
How about "aramcos":
Saudi Arabia: Abd al-Aziz bin Sa'ud gold Pound ND (1947) PCGS AU58
1945 Saudi Arabia Four Pound (Aramco) KM-34 NGC AU55
1945-46 Saudi Arabia Four Pound (Aramco) KM-34 NGC AU55
1945-46 Saudi Arabia Four Pound (Aramco) KM-34 Improperly Cleaned
1945-46 Saudi Arabia Four Pound (Aramco) KM-34 PCGS AU58
The following are items that I am really curious to get an opinion on.
How about oddities like these:
Chile: Republic gold 100 Pesos 1946-So MS64 NGC, Santiago mint, KM175, Fr-54
- Heritage noted:
with only 45 graded in totality between PCGS ad NGS this near gem grade designation sits within the top of the curve
Kim Thanh Gold (wafer thin sheets) 37.5 G / 1.205 T OZ total weight
10 oz ASAHI Gold Bar
Volksbank 100 Gram Gold Bar
Geiger Kilogram
Elemental Kilogram
OPM Kilogram
JM 100 ounce silver bar
Wall Street 10 Troy Ounce Silver Bar
5 Troy Ounce Sandoz Presentation Award Bars (2 different styles)
Royal Canadian Mint 1 Troy Ounce Silver Bar
1973 Georgia GNA Award - Numismatic Award in shape of Georgia 6.65 troy ounces of silver
24.2 Troy Ounce Drew Silver bar
48.51 Troy Ounce SRS bar
2013 Freedom Girl 1 OZ Silver Round
1936 S Bay Bridge commemorative half dollar - ANICS MS63 in Special Holder 547/1000 Signed By Designer Jacques Schnier
1987 1/4 Troy Ounce Bugs Bunny Gold Round in original packaging
2010 ATB Five OZ Set (1st series) Still in box
25th Anniversary SAE Set Still in box
What about large gold coins like:
Austria: Franz Joseph I gold Restrike 100 Corona various grades
Great Britain Elizabeth II gold 5 Pounds various grades
Bolivia: Republic gold "Revolution" 35 Gramos 1952-(a) MS62 NGC, Paris mint, KM-X13
Republic gold 100 Soles 1963-LIMA MS64 NGC, Lima mint, KM231
Lastly:
All 1/10th oz gold coins.
Do these small fractional gold coins carry a premium like they used to? or has the premium shrunk?
Before anyone jumps on me I want to say - yes, I am doing my own research. I'm checking completed sales from various sources, all of the usual suspects I suppose one could say.
But I want to get your opinions as well - you too are a source. Many of you have stores and you buy and sell every day.
So many of you know SO much more than I do about these types of things and I value your opinion - that's why I ask.
So, once again, I want to thank those of you who took the time to scroll through and read the lists.
I sincerely appreciate you and with deep gratitude I look forward to your responses.
Thank you!
J.W.
Comments
That's a giant laundry list, so they are going to vary.
Best for you to look at them one at a time when you are ready to sell. Look at recently sold listings for prices.
Good luck.
Fair enough, that IS a big list.
I am checking completed sales from various sources but was hoping to get some opinions here as well.
So how about some generalizations?
What if I ask about some of them as groups?
Like sets - are sets like those listed above holding any premium?
How about the Morgans in Paramount holders?
My belief is that the Redfield holder "should" still hold some kind of premium. Am I correct?
What about the Paramount holders?
How about the Australian Lunar series coins?
I'm really curious about the "Aramcos" - Saudi Arabia 1 pound and 4 pound gold disks
And how about 1/10th ounce gold coins? Small fractional gold used to always carry a premium. Does that still hold?
Thanks again to any and all who provide an opinion.
No Morgans are selling for melt, especially CC dollars.
I think all of that gold is probably at melt except the Aramco. 1/10 oz eagles sell at a slight premium, you might be able to get a small premium.
Hand poured bars or Emgelhardt can have premiums, other bars, probably not.
It would be a waste of everyone's time to go through and price that list. There's no point in my doing it. And even if someone on the forum did it, it's useless to you unless it is an actual purchase offer. Some forum yahoo telling you that there's a premium on $5 AGE's is great, but if you can't find anyone offering one, then their opinion is moot.
Decide what you are willing to sell and then go get actual buy offers.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Given the very high bullion value you are talking about you need to contact a MAJOR dealer in such material. They can advise you as to which items still bring a premium over melt. There is also the issue of selling costs you will need to consider. In some cases the selling costs to get the premium price may be higher than the return.
Just a little advice. I was thinking you must be overwhelmed.
Why not break everything into groups and slowly price everything out. Separate and move on to the next group.
If your not in a hurry to sell you could also sell in smaller groups.
It will keep you busy for a while but starting small might be a good idea.
Good luck.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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I would suggest contacting Mark Feld (@MFeld ). Mark is a professional numismatist and a long-time well respected forum member here who works for Heritage which is a large reputable coin firm. He may be able to arrange for someone at his firm to help you with the orderly dispersal of your collection.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@jmlanzaf
My apologies if I didn't make myself very clear.
I didn't mean to imply I was thinking those Morgans (or even some of the other things on the list) were to be sold at melt. I'm asking if they still hold a somewhat sizable premium or if the premium has shrunk.
I do kinda expect that things like the Sovereign sets and those sets from China might very well not carry any premium at all now and will be sold at melt. Likewise, for some of the item under the "oddities" lable.
I'm also somewhat taken aback that you said all the gold would basically sell for melt.
Even the Australian Lunar series? and things like Libertads?
I understand you may have quickly scanned the list and did not read it as has already been pointed out - it is a long list and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how one wants to look at it) not anywhere near everything.
Your comment: "Some forum yahoo telling you that there's a premium on $5 AGE's is great, but if you can't find anyone offering one, then their opinion is moot." is spot on. I'm just hoping to gather as much information as I can before I pull the trigger, as it were.
You are one of the people I was hoping would respond so thank you very much.
i am wondering if the ncg coin is real as copycat holders can be a way to pass counterfeits
do you live in a major city?
@Morgan13
I appreciate the advice. There is a lot to go through, but Ive been plotting this out for a while now and have a fairly good grasp on how I'm going to attack it.
So not quite overwhelmed, but yes, a little beaten by the monotony of dealing with this for as long as I have.
I'm one of those types of people who gets discussed here fairly often. I'm the guy who has some stuff, some pretty decent, some common dreck and nobody in my life who has any interest in it.
Therefore, I've decided to sell it and buy some property where I can set up a shooting range and make all the noise I want to make in my remaining years of retirement.
Thanks for your input!
"Premium" refers to the price relative to melt. I'm not sure what else you would mean by "premium". Virtually all premiums (price relative to melt) have shrunk when bullion increased.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MsMorrisine
I never considered the coin in the off-name holder could be counterfeit. Thanks for putting that thought in my head.
I do live near a major city and have begun narrowing down the long list of places where I'll be calling or going to in order to ask questions.
Thanks for your input as well!
@291fifth
You hit on some good points.
After thinking it over for quite some time, I've decided not to stress about many of the items that aren’t on this list. I’m accepting that they’ll go for melt, and I’m fine with that. At this point, a good portion of what I have will probably end up going to a refinery rather than a coin shop.
i wouldn't look to sets as carrying premiums as sets because nearly all sets get broken up
I kinda figured that would be the case with the sets, and to be honest I'm not upset in the least about that.
Just playing devil's advocate - wouldn't that mean full sets are even more "scarce" or "rare" and therefore be due a premium?
Unless you really need the money now, I would sell slowly over time, metals are beat up and will recover.
nah, because those are sets on the market. sets in collections are less rare than what's on the market.
if you're set on selling it all, i'd spend time on the gold because you have a lot and a 2% swing in gold's market price is a lot of money
there's two sides on the precious metal forum here. gold is in demand for various reasons and this is just a break from the eventual rise again. then there's a few who think we just had a bubble and things are headed down. i'm thinking we were in a bubble and headed down. figure out where you think gold is going and act accordingly
you will definitelt want to use the precious metals forum here to ask about premums and, very importantly, ask what people are paying. (relative to spot)
The numismatic material of which you have quite a bit of belongs in a dedicated numismatic auction, GC, HA or Stacks Bowers. All the GSA and cc Morgans have significant demand, easy to look up on PCGS' Coin Facts. The no motto $10 Liberty, the other certified gold have significant premiums. Do your own research. It will pay you an extra $50/hr for your work. Lazy sellers leave lots of money on the table. Get the non-market acceptable coins into market acceptable holders or have the auction company do it.
Get the Morgans graded by NGC (the few CC’s in the government packs and the paramount encased ones). I would take all the graded material and give it to greatcollections. If you think some have premiums, which some do, I would sell it through the auction house to maximize any return. You won’t have to worry about short changing yourself by selling through a dealer.
If you think that some of the raw foreign has a premium to spot, I would also get it graded though NGC and sell it at auction. None of the raw foreign coins caught my eye as being worth better than melt, but I might be mistaken on 1-2 things.
Greatcollections can submit to NGC on your behalf, and then auction afterwards. I would spread the auctions out over a period of 2-4 weeks, and wait until spot recovers some from the recent lows.
As far as the raw stuff, I’d choose my favorite honest dealer, get an offer and just sell. Not worth wasting time on items worth melt. Just time the market right once it recovers.
you got hard cases of morgan dollars in government packaging. you want to leave thos in the hard plastic and get the whole thing graded. there will be a tamper evident seal put on the hard plastic case.
but remember: don't open those plastic cases
The GSA Morgans are hot now.. Which put a hurt on my buying.
First series 1999 Australia Lunar 1 OZ Silver Set I have I'm holding on to because they were selling at a premium till silver spiked and I still feel it has value well over melt.
I'm of the opinion that all the factors that were there when gold spiked are still there. This current drop is temporary, just how temporary is up for debate, but I feel the economic indicators are still string for precious metals.
The drop occurred, in my opinion because of the spike in oil prices caused by the closing of the Straits of Hormuz.
This precipitated a spike in costs to ship, well everything, which in turn made almost everything we purchase more expensive
Higher costs creates broad inflation pressure
So higher inflation equals higher real yields which equals stronger dollar
Yet all the underlying factors that were there prior are still there.
In the last five years central banks have bought more gold than in any other 5 year period in history and they continue buying.
Rate cuts are still expected, just delayed.
Geopolitical uncertainty, fiscal deficits, currency devaluation risk are all still there and in my opinion worsening.
And every major institutional (Goldman Sachs, J.P.Morgan, Morgan Stanley, UBS) forecast for gold remains strong.
So, I see not just gold but silver prices as well coming back in short order. Before year end, I think we're looking back at this timeframe and seeing what we'll call a blip.
I'm in no hurry to sell today. I've been sitting on this stuff for years a few more weeks or even months aint gonna hurt me
Yeah silver just rebounded to $67 today
Get some valuations and put the on the BST Board. Save the nut to the house and taxes.
@logger7
I'm reading this forum constantly and have seen many people recommend Great Collections over and over. I'm very much leaning towards giving them most of my graded materials for just that reason.
I have much more graded material that is not on the list I provided here but it's mostly foreign gold ranging from Details grades to MS70. Much of it is common coinage: Franz Joseph restrikes, Olympic Commemoratives, Peru 100 Soles, Venezuela "Cock of the Rocks", 20 francs, 20 lires, sovereigns, Great Britain 5 Pounds, Austria 100 Schilling on and on.
As I stated, I am doing my own research but came here as part of that research
Thanks for your input!
@1madman
See my comment to logger7 above.
And thanks for giving a response. I appreciate it.
@MsMorrisine
Yes, I'm well aware to leave those specific Morgans in their govt packaging.
One is graded, one is in complete packaging and the other, I do not have the govt issued box.
But thanks for the reminder.
definitely use the precious metals forum here to ask about the bullion
they bicker A LOT over there.. just ignore that part
@ELVIS1
Good to hear GSA Morgans are hot now.
That gives me even more reason to submit the two ungraded ones.
I too feel like the Australian Lunar series should hold onto some of that pre-spike premium.
It's part of why I'm here asking these questions.
I want to hear from people who buy and sell these kinds of things on a daily basis and have them tell me whether the premium has evaporated or whether there is still some "substantiative" premium remaining
Thanks for responding.
@MsMorrisine
Thanks, I'll check in on the Precious Metals part of the forum as well.
I've also got a lot of 90% silver so will need an avenue to offload that as well.
I've been married for 41 years, I've gotten pretty good at ignoring bickering.
I don't have any useful advice, but I am fascinated by the 1 kg gold bars you listed. I'd love to have one of those in my collection! Just a bit out of my budget though.
Are you in Texas by chance? If you are in the DFW I could help you or would recommend CR for the metals...
Get the gold coins slabbed. Many world gold coins are scarce, low pop - worth much more than melt. Many are ignorant of world material. I used to deal in slabbed world gold. It was a good experience for me. Very fun highly successful business segment. Get familiar with your inventory so you can retail and get all the money. Get slabbed what you can. You have enough there to set up at a show. The world coin forum here can be a good help on your world stuff.
That is a big enough to be an inventory for your coin business. Learn about your coins develop a spreadsheet. US material you can use CDN CPG.
Many world coins are in CDN CPG. Mexico Gold is scarcer than US (which seems overpriced vs world). Mexico Libertads are very hot in current market. Don’t let somebody bs you they only worth melt. Once these coins slabbed - many low pop!
Whatever you can get slabbed will add value. Mexico gold 50 Peso slabbed worth a lot. Much scarcer than US.
Break them down into manageable groups, get them graded, price them (CDN CPG helps).
And I'm sure you are constantly paying above melt for world gold - regardless of what you are selling it at.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The gold with minimal premiums doesn't belong in an auction; you'll just lose the percentages. With no premium gold, maybe Apmex, JM Bullion or Provident. Also Arizona is good: https://www.azcoinexchange.com/BuyList.htm
LOL - Many world gold coins are very scarce, low pop and sell well above melt. As a former world gold specialist somebody saying world gold only worth melt tells me they don’t know what they are talking about.
Many do and many don't, even with low pops.
I notice you didn't comment on the huge premiums you're PAYING.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The foreign gold I have is mostly slabbed - as stated above: "ranging from Details grades to MS70"
I do not want to set up at a show as I'm simply not willing to put on that kind of effort and deal with the packing, unpacking, and especially the security of everything.
Thanks
@Relaxn
are you referring to C R Coins (also called C R Gold & Silver) in North Richland Hills?
if the GSA are hot, may as well send them to GC first. any with nice colors?
Nope, no toning on any of 'em
@element159
I just now caught this..
Those kilo bars:
Geiger Kilogram
Elemental Kilogram
OPM Kilogram
They're all silver not gold.
Sorry to disappoint you
Many of the World Gold coins (especially low pop) above sell considerably above melt. Get them slabbed if not already / then get all the money. Check out CDN CPG on them - players will try rip you saying they just worth melt. Mexico coins in CPG now.
Mexico gold a really hot market. Check out CPG on these. Mexico gold 50 pesos bring huge amount especially in MS 64 and above - low pop coins. Suggest you get yours slabbed.
Take a look in CPG under Mexico - 50 pesos. It will show you melt and MV for that grade. Get yours graded.
Get an online store. Don’t get ripped giving them away at melt. Check their MV in CDN CPG. There is a big demand for that material. Me I would want all the money. Consign to GC getting ones raw graded?
@Cougar1978
The foreign gold I have is mostly slabbed - as stated above: "ranging from Details grades to MS70"
I'd have to check locally RE your comment.
I purchased the vast majority of the foreign gold just one percentage point either side of melt. Sometime a few (3 maybe 4) percentage points below but almost never more than 1 or 2 percentage points above.
Unless things have changed dramatically that's what I expected to be the current market conditions for that material as well.
Seems to me, there would be very little demand for foreign gold as it simply is not as recognizable for most people as American Eagles or Canadian Maple Leafs and other government issued coinage.
Most people want nice round numbers - full ounce, half ounce, quarter ounce and tenth ounce.
I mean, who walks into a coin shop and sees a:
1992 Finland 1000 Markkaa and immediately knows it's 0.2604 troy ounces?
Or
1976 Mongolia 750 Tugrik Przewalski Horses Gold Coin and immediately knows it's 0.9675 troy ounces?
And while both of these coins have low mintages:
35,000 for the Markkaa and a scant 929 for the Przewalski, who knows that?
Of course, there's the off chance that someone specific is looking for_ something specific _but those are rare opportunities.
Lastly, which coin shop owner is going to sit on those types of coins waiting for that opportunity to walk in his or her door?
Curiously, I do have one coin - Chile: Republic gold 100 Pesos 1946-So MS64 NGC, Santiago mint, KM175, Fr-54 that Heriatge Auctions gave this write up: "With only 45 graded in totality between PCGS and NGC, this near-Gem grade designation sits within the top of the curve."
Again, it's an oddball, who's looking for it? and who know that it's AGW: 0.5885oz?
It's a "scarce" coin for whatever that designation is worth.
It just doesn't seem (to me) to be worth a whole lot.
Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong many a time in my life so it wouldn't be surprising, but I don't think I am
But that is exactly why I opened up this subject to the forum.
Because I don't know things. So, I ask questions.
I don't know if these types of things carry a premium or not.
I want to hear from those of you who operate in this business space day in and day out.
Thank you for the reply
I don't know about GC but HA has regular world coin auctions
the big issue there is the high buyer premium taking value away from you item's return to you
Agree with you 100% about the premiums.
I am somewhat concerned about GC for world coins they seem to be much more U.S. focused.
Especially with the types of, let's call them, "less common/less recognized" world coins like I described in my last post.
I guess I could reach out to Ian and see what transpires.
I would suggest you consult CDN CPG. Nice slabbed gold coins are worth more than melt! Mexico and other countries now in CDN CPG. Do your research, don’t let them talk you down. You need to research your material. Maybe put bulk of it in sdb and work with some - research CDN CPG.
You can also research what eBay sellers are asking for this material. I will make note of the low, average, and high.
APMEX deals in foreign gold