What does this room think about GOLDBACK and SILVERBACK notes?
softparade
Posts: 9,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
Especially Silverbacks. There has always been fractional silver with US Constitutional. I guess I can understand the basic premise of small fractional gold for the masses that can't afford the real deal. But Goldback proponents say they ARE the real deal.
COPPER is gutter !
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pokeman cards?
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
ls that a good thing?
I've seen people spend $tupid money on Cards.
Ok to buy one or two for the novelty, I guess if you like the artwork.
But, horrible way to stack precious metals. Way too high of a premium on these to be practical and other problems with them as well. Anyone who starts to buy these in quantity could save up for a small piece of actual gold and get it at little to no premium.
Probably easy to counterfeit these too as it's a piece of plastic. And because of that, I know many dealers, including myself, would never buy them in quantity from a customer, even at purported gold value with no premium. Unlike a gold bar or gold coin, even a very small one, I have no way of testing or even weighing these plastic notes to see if they are real gold or have as much real gold as they claim. It's all trusting what's printed on there. Not for me and I don't recommend them to anyone who asks.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
Goldbacks,
More of a novelty for me but I do have some quantity of smaller denominations.
New ones coming out for different states and I'll pick up some of those.
I have a few local dealers.
If you have one in hand and educate yourself about them... they would be hard to fake.
Ya, I understand they are nearly impossible to fake. But we all know how that goes. Eventually…
COPPER is gutter !
Ignore them completely as if they were on one of the late night TV show infomercials.
I would be more likely to buy a dazzlingly painted silver eagle.
There are just about 5K businesses nationwide accepting them for payment of services now. Interestingly, many are not related to metals, coins, or collectibles.
COPPER is gutter !
Probably the worst thing you can “stack”.
Not something you want to stack for weight...the artwork on some is Very Nice.
Why would you pay an outrageous premium for a goldback, only to spend it at one of 5,000 establishments that accept them for payment? Do they refund the premium?
Other than that, many of them are attractive designs.
I knew it would happen.
I don't own any. Just wondering what the deal is. I guess stupid people are buying them judging from this room. I see roughly 42 million notes have been sold since inception. 'Murica? lolzzz
COPPER is gutter !
I bought a 1/4, 1/2 and a 1 Idaho - artwork was neat and he sold them at his cost as part of a larger deal. I will give them to a HS graduate (with a 2026 ASE). So not stupid - and 42 million with various sizes and artwork shows people aren't stacking but simply buying a few as conversation pieces
Well, businesses that accept goldbacks do so at current fiat market price. A 1 GB right now with it's gold content has a market price of $8.68 US dollars. That's the credit you get from a business taking them for whatever your bill is. Down the line, that 1 GB you purchased for $8.68 fiat dollars could now have a value of 18 fiat dollars. And vice versa depending on what the real deal does.
COPPER is gutter !
Not to mention more and more states are coming online with their own issues. 5k businesses taking them today probably means 20k plus down the road. Again, I don't own one. What I do know though is that NOBODY is walking into non hobby/industry related establishments paying for their goods with ASE's, Junk, or anything else bullion.
COPPER is gutter !
GB sales growth.
2019: ~$500,000
2020: ~$1.6 million
2021: ~$6.0 million
2022: ~$17 million
2023: ~$34 million
2025 (Year-End): ~$331 million total in circulation
2026 (Mid-Year): Over $360 million total value produced and sold
hmmm
COPPER is gutter !
I'm playing the contrarian here.
COPPER is gutter !
I have to agree with the majority here. Goldbacks seem to be more of a conversation piece/ novelty item/ collector's item than a precious metal investment or alternative method of payment.
Also I don't really see their value in a barter situation wich often gets mentioned - in my opinion precious metals are a hedge in terms of either selling them piece by piece as needed or as a store of value you can liquify after a economic / currency crisis is over.
Here in Germany during the hyper inflation of 1922/23 sold their gold chains / bracelets one link at a time for just enough fiat money as they needed and did just fine.
So you really would want to keep your physical (gold & silver) assets instead of spending them needlessly.
Even in a crisis or time of need there needs to be some form of universal payment/ transaction/ a way to evaluate the prices and values of goods & services. And that's usually either your domestic of a foreign fiat currency, because it's available to every person.
If I asked 100 random people in my village, 75% would not know the price of gold or silver and if I'm lucky I would find one person who has heared about goldbacks....
Also all goldbacks are issued by just one company, wich seems a little bit risky to me. If there was more competition (wich would also drop the premiums a bit) I can imagine it as a low cost entry point into precious metals for regular people without much experience in that field. But eventually they would and should move on to lower premium stuff like bullion.
First of all, the Goldback is Bartered at a higher than face value and precious metals transactions shouldn't be taxed.
Are Goldbacks More interesting Now?
Bartered transactions are taxable - sorry. You have given something of value and received something of value. You have taxable income based on the value of the item received (your counter-party does as well). If you own a business and you trade for something that is subject to retail sales tax, you will need to collect retail sales tax on the value of the item you traded.
Will an auditor find a bartered transaction - probably not.
I got a set of the 2019 utah goldbacks as a novelty, but also because they were first editions, but...
When they arrived, they had an accidental fold along the edge of the group so I returned them and was sent 2020 notes wnah wnah. Its okay as they are beautiful and I was paying about $3 a 1/1000th note or $3000 per OZ about a 150% premium to spot at the time.
I did pick up some extra 'ones' and have given them to family members at various celebratory events, peoples ears perk up when you tell them its real Gold.
It's all about what the people want...
A local place in New Hampshire is selling/marketing "Silver Bits"- 1/10 oz silver coins meant to be used as currency. They state that some businesses accept them, but they trade above spot and NH is tax free so I'd have limited interest in them. I think the uptake may be slower on these, but anything that poses a serious threat to the USD is in for trouble. These types of pseudo currencies seem to be more about novelty than anything else.
They are a nice novelty but im not gonna buy any.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
Has anyone checked them to see if they have the amount of gold or silver they purport to have?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That's the trouble with these in my opinion.
I can test every gold coin and gold bar that comes to me and can test them multiple ways, many with out damaging the coin/bar at all. Not the case with these notes, it's all about trusting what is printed on the plastic.
That said, I did see a YouTube video several years ago by Silver Seeker where he tried to test the Goldbacks with acid and tried to use other testers on them with no luck.
Also a sreetips video on YouTube where 1/2 ounce of them were melted down and refined into a 999 bar that was just a hair under the correct amount, likely because of the refining process, but close enough.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
AI says…
Yes, verified independent testing confirms that Goldbacks contain exactly the advertised amount of .999 fine 24-karat gold.
How the Gold is VerifiedMelt Tests: Independent third parties have melted down stacks of Goldbacks and successfully recovered the exact mass of gold advertised.
Exposed Edges: Each note features an exposed edge that can be tested for 24k purity at any reputable precious metals exchange using standard industry tools (like acid testing).
The "Blue Hue" Test: The manufacturing process layers gold so thinly that the ½ Goldback note allows a vibrant blue hue to show when held up to a direct light source.State & Tech Verification: They are produced using patented vacuum deposition technology by Valaurum.
COPPER is gutter !
Fun facts. The dude (Silver Dave of Local Silver Mint) who is manufacturing silver bitz purchased the press that made the first ASE’s at the US Mint. That press will be coining the newly designed silver bitz soon Not only that, but they hired and moved to New Hampshire the original press operator who was working that press when the first ASE was struck. He was in retirement.
COPPER is gutter !
I don't think they are a way to stack gold. But I don't think it's any student then buying a gold or silver Commem. They are very attractive. I think they are as collectible as anything else.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.